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JGawne
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USB, IEEE 1394, etc Not working after clean install of MCE

Ok.  Here goes.  I think I'm one of those people who might just know enough about troubleshooting to cause problems.  I have a friends HP Pavilion a1330n that would not boot up for her.  I never was able to get it to start in any mode so she was fine with the reinstall of everything.  We ordered the recovery disks from HP.  WHen installing these disks, the system freezes during the setup process, after the date/time, etc settings.  Just freezes and will do nothing else.
SO, I went another route and installed a new Windows XP MCE.  The computer boots from the CD, enters the blue screen of instructions and promptly freezes at "Windows is starting setup".  SO, I restarted setup and pressed F5 to get other options.  I installed under the Standard PC option knowing full well that this PC is anything but standard.  Windows loaded and looked beautiful for about five seconds when I found out that the USB ports on the motherboard, and the IEEE1394 port and the multimedia audio controller is not working.  We have exclamations in the device manager.  Cannot load new drivers or update drivers as Windows seems to be perfectly happy with the ones that are there.  They are not using any resources because they are not working.  I am so frustrated with this.  I have spent literally DAYS on this problem and I am at a loss.  If this isn't enough information, please let me know.  This is just it in a nutshell.  Can anyone help?  I am willing to start from scratch if need be.  Computers don't scare me.  They just frustrate the daylights out of me.
Thanks so much
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Gary Case

8/22/2022 - Mon
PUNKY

After OS installation, you should install drivers for system (chipset, NIC, sound, etc.)
PUNKY

Currently, I dont see any support drivers for MCE in HP support site, only Vista and XP. Can you try XP drivers:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&lang=en&dlc=en&product=1815825
JGawne

ASKER
Hi PUNKY,
Thanks for your reply.  The drivers are all up to date according to what I can figure. I have attempted to update the drivers and the ones I mentioned will not be updated.  Device manage is flagging the following with the black exclamation point in the yellow triangle....
Floppy Disk Controller (Although there is no floppy in the system)
VIA CHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
Multimedia Audio Controller
Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller (2 of them)
Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller (2 of them)
Does this info help?
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danielcc

the problem loading windows was probably caused by a dieing cd drive. as for your problem now simply download the drivers off the hp website, remove the drivers not working and reinstall them with the hp installer...
JGawne

ASKER
Thank you for the link.  I was already on that and I downloaded and updated as directed.  That did not solve the issue though.  I am not sure how to obtain the XP drivers other than having the system look for them automatically.
JGawne

ASKER
Hi danielcc,
The only thing I can find for HP installer is the installer kit for Linux.  Is this what you are referring to?
Thank you.
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PUNKY

Try this for sound:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareDownloadIndex?softwareitem=pv-56089-1&lc=en&cc=us&lang=en&os=228&product=1815825&dlc=en

In device manager, remove all of entries of usb and let windows redetects and reinstalls. Make sure usb options in bios are enabled.
JGawne

ASKER
PUNKY,
I had already downloaded and installed that update.  Thank you though.
Also, I checked in BIOS and the only USB option I see is Legacy support set enabled (or auto).  Is there something else I should be seeing?
I had already removed all of the entries for usb and let windows redetect.  It still does the same thing and says the wizard cannot find a better match.
Thank you.
PUNKY

Such problem, please do try manual installation. Upon wizard installation popup, select install manually.
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JGawne

ASKER
PUNKY,
I am trying manual installation but I keep getting "There is a problem installing this hardware.  Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller.  The device cannot start [Code 10].

Also, maybe I'm only borderline Intermediate knowledge because I do not understand what you mean when you say "If still not work, you might install OS in minimum. In order to do that, use nLites tool to create xp slipstream (slipstream from HP recovery disks). "

Gary Case

"... I dont see any support drivers for MCE in HP support site, only Vista and XP. Can you try XP drivers?" ==>  MCE  IS  XP :-)     Also the link suggested to "try this for sound" is for a BIOS update ... the update does have a fix for issues when "waking up" from S3 sleep state; but is NOT a driver.

... but those links won't help, since HP doesn't post any of the chipset or component drivers.   The only support from HP is to order the recovery disks => which you already did, and which aren't working here.

My initial thought would be you got a bad set of recovery disks or have a defective DVD drive ... but the issues you had loading XP MCE indicate there may be additional problems.   You should NOT have to force a non-standard HAL (w/F5) for the install to complete correctly.   But first a few questions:

=>  When you say "... Windows loaded and looked beautiful for about five seconds ..." what exactly do you mean?   Did it crash?   blue screen? freeze?   ... or is it running okay but you noticed the exclamation points in Device Manager and decided it's not working because of that?

=>  Have you thoroughly tested the memory?   If not, I'd download the current ISO for MemTest86+ [http://www.memtest.org/ ];  burn a CD from the image; boot to the CD; and let it run for an hour or two to confirm your memory doesn't have any obvious issues.

=>  Most failures of the type you've described are due to either memory "glitches" (which MemTest86+ MAY isolate) or problems with the motherboard.   Look VERY carefully (use a magnifying glass) at the motherboard to see if there are any signs of deterioration on the capacitors ... either leakage or "bloating" (swelling).  

=>  If Windows is working okay except for the exclamation points, try the RS482 driver here [different motherboard, but the same chipset]:  http://www.nodevice.com/driver/RS482-M/get34479.html   Your fundamental issue here (if the system is otherwise working) is simply that you don't have the chipset drivers installed.   This board uses the same RS482 based Radeon Express 200 chipset that your board does, so the chipset drivers should be compatible.
 
Gary Case

... by the way, removing OS components won't help (i.e. creating a reduced functionality install CD with NLite) => the hardware abstraction layer (HAL) and chipset drivers still have to be correctly installed ... and that's clearly the issue here.   You either have a hardware issue; a bad installation CD; or simply don't have the correct drivers.

One other thought:  depending on how HP structures their restore CD, there MAY be a folder on it with all of the hardware drivers (which are the same for all versions of XP) => if the MCE install is working (except for the exclamation points), look at the directory of the restore CD ... you may have all the needed drivers right there.
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PUNKY

JGawne

ASKER
Hi garycase,
=>  When you say "... Windows loaded and looked beautiful for about five seconds ..." what exactly do you mean?   Did it crash?   blue screen? freeze?   ... or is it running okay but you noticed the exclamation points in Device Manager and decided it's not working because of that?

***Yes, I meant that it was okay until I saw the exclamation points.  Printer would not be detected nor would my thumb drive

=>  Have you thoroughly tested the memory?   If not, I'd download the current ISO for MemTest86+ [http://www.memtest.org/ ];  burn a CD from the image; boot to the CD; and let it run for an hour or two to confirm your memory doesn't have any obvious issues.

***I have just attempted to do the above and the computer will not boot to the CD that was created.  I burned the .iso file but to no avail.

=>  Most failures of the type you've described are due to either memory "glitches" (which MemTest86+ MAY isolate) or problems with the motherboard.   Look VERY carefully (use a magnifying glass) at the motherboard to see if there are any signs of deterioration on the capacitors ... either leakage or "bloating" (swelling).  

***All capacitors appear to be normal.

=>  If Windows is working okay except for the exclamation points, try the RS482 driver here [different motherboard, but the same chipset]:  http://www.nodevice.com/driver/RS482-M/get34479.html   Your fundamental issue here (if the system is otherwise working) is simply that you don't have the chipset drivers installed.   This board uses the same RS482 based Radeon Express 200 chipset that your board does, so the chipset drivers should be compatible.
 
*** I downloaded and installed above driver - unfortunately that did not change anything either.
***I have just discovered in attempting to burn the .iso image, that the dvd writer does not work.  It will read and boot from the CD's that are put in it but it will not write.  The drivers are the latest according to Windows.  I went to LightScribe and attempted to install the latest and ran their diagnostic utility and am getting normal results.  I feel this might be part of whatever the big picture is here.

Thank you for your replies thus far.  Please don't give up on me.



***




JGawne

ASKER
PUNKY,
Thanks for the links.  All updates are run.  Still have those darn exclamation marks and no change in USB usage, etc.

I am not opposed to doing a new install but I still don't know how to get around the F5 using the WIndows XP MCE disks or the freez up using the recovery disks.  I know the recovery disks run a lot further, in fact, they will get me into where I have to do the time/region setup information but lock up at the point where windows components are being installed.  Does this help?

I'm trying to provide as much information as I can but I've been troubleshooting this for a long time now and I have forgotten all of the steps I've taken until I go to do them again.

I appreciate the help here.  
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PUNKY

Any error appears or installation is just hang at that step? Below is some error code of XP installation:

http://kadaitcha.cx/cannot_install.html

Gary Case

r.e. the MemTest CD => you have to burn a CD FROM the image ... you don't burn the image to a CD (as a data file)  --- is that what you did?    What burning software are you using?
JGawne

ASKER
PUNKY
No error messages.  Just hangs and will sit on the "please wait" screen (for recovery disk installation) or the "windows is starting setup" screen (for the Windows XP MCE disks).

garycase
Sorry.  I wasn't sure what it was I was supposed to do.  I burned the .iso file to a CD.  Please tell me what I should do with it and excuse my ignorance on this one.  Maybe I should put myself back down to the "beginner" status eh? :)

Thanks all
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Gary Case

You didn't mention which burner package you have ... so just in case you don't have one, just do this:

Download the free ISORecorder here:  http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/download/ISORecorderV2RC1.msi

Install it; then use it to burn the MemTest ISO file to a CD.
JGawne

ASKER
I'm sorry.  I figured it out.  I used my MovieFactory.  The memory test is running right now.  So far things look great.

I did notice after going back into the BIOS - I exited and the computer started to boot up and it said (quickly) BIOS defaults were restored...checksum....something or other.  It was very quick and I did not catch it all.

My friend wants her computer back to do her taxes and email them.  Her internet is working fine.  Her software programs thus far are installing fine also.  I will get the computer back Wednesday and will still be needing your help on this site.  I will post any memory test results that appear as soon as they are available.

Thank you to all of you for your input thus far.
JGawne

ASKER
I hope I didn't confuse anyone.  I did not figure out the issue, I just figured out how to burn the CD image.  This issue is still at hand and I am still in need of your expertise.  Thank you so much.
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Gary Case

It's fairly clear that the system is working okay from a hardware perspective -- otherwise you couldn't install the OS and the programs that will allow your friend to use it for e-mail, internet, TurboTax (or whichever tax program she uses), etc.

Post back when you have the system back & we'll figure out the driver issue.
JGawne

ASKER
Hi all.  I have the system back now.  I also found out - which I didn't know until yesterday - that my friend was having problems with one of the DVD drives prior to having me fix her computer.  She didn't know what the drive was doing because her son said it was "acting up"  I was unaware of that and didn't even look into that.  Do you think it would be a good idea to run the recovery disks again without the DVD drives connected?  Maybe that was what was freezing the system up to begin with?  If not, where should I go from here?  

garycase:  Memory test went fine. all passed.

Thanks for your replies!
Gary Case

A couple of questions ...

=>  Aside from the yellow exclamation points in Device Manager, is the system running okay?

=>  Does the system have internet access?   (i.e. is the network adapter drive installed okay)

The DVD drive that's acting up is very unlikely to have anything to do with this issue ... unless it's the drive you used to do the installation;  but even then, if you didn't get any read errors from the install CD that's not likely a problem.

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JGawne

ASKER

Yes, the system is running great.
yes, the sysstem has internet access.

I do not see any other problems.

Did you see my comment regarding the checksum error and the BIOS defaults being loaded?  

Thank you.
Gary Case

Yes, I noticed the checksum/BIOS defaults comment => that's usually due to corruption in the CMOS data.   How old is the system?   ... might want to replace the CMOS battery just for grins.

Post your current Device Manager display ...


JGawne

ASKER
How do I post my device manager display?  Here is all I can figure but if there is a cleaner way to do it, please advise...thanks!
Resource Summary Report   -  Page: 1
******************** SYSTEM SUMMARY ********************
Windows Version: Windows 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) Registered Owner: HAIG Registered Organization: Computer Name: HAIGFAMILY Machine Type: AT/AT COMPATIBLE System BIOS Version: HP-CPC - 42302e31 System BIOS Date: 01/25/07 Processor Type: x86 Family 15 Model 47 Stepping 2 Processor Vendor: AuthenticAMD Number of Processors: 1 Physical Memory: 959 MB
******************** DISK DRIVE INFO ********************
Drive C: Type: Fixed disk drive Total Space: 20,974,460,928 bytes Free Space: 14,683,348,992 bytes Heads: 255 Cylinders: 30401 Sectors Per Track: 63 Bytes Per Sector: 512
Drive D: Type: Fixed disk drive Total Space: 12,601,143,296 bytes Free Space: 12,434,759,680 bytes Heads: 255 Cylinders: 30401 Sectors Per Track: 63 Bytes Per Sector: 512
******************** IRQ SUMMARY ********************
IRQ Usage Summary: (ISA)  0    System timer (ISA)  1    PC/AT Enhanced PS/2 Keyboard (101/102-Key) (PCI)  5    ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  *(PCI)  5    Multimedia Audio Controller *(ISA)  6    Standard floppy disk controller (ISA)  8    System CMOS/real time clock (PCI) 10    Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC (PCI) 11    Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller (ISA) 12    Microsoft PS/2 Mouse (ISA) 13    Numeric data processor (ISA) 14    Primary IDE Channel (ISA) 15    Secondary IDE Channel
******************** DMA USAGE SUMMARY ********************
DMA Usage Summary: * 2    Standard floppy disk controller  3    ECP Printer Port (LPT1)  4    Direct memory access controller
Resource Summary Report   -  Page: 2
******************** MEMORY SUMMARY ********************
Memory Usage Summary: [00000000 - 0009FFFF]  System board [0009F000 - 000BFFFF]  PCI bus [000A0000 - 000BFFFF]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [000A0000 - 000BFFFF]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  [000CD000 - 000DFFFF]  PCI bus [000CD000 - 000CFFFF]  Motherboard resources [000F0000 - 000F3FFF]  Motherboard resources [000F4000 - 000F7FFF]  Motherboard resources [000F8000 - 000FFFFF]  Motherboard resources [00100000 - 00FFFFFF]  System board [3BF00000 - DFFFFFFF]  PCI bus [F0000000 - FEBFFFFF]  PCI bus [F0000000 - F7FFFFFF]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [F0000000 - F7FFFFFF]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  [FDCE0000 - FDCEFFFF]  PCI Data Fax SoftModem with SmartCP [FDCFF000 - FDCFF0FF]  Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC [FDD00000 - FDDFFFFF]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [FDDF0000 - FDDFFFFF]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  *[FE02A000 - FE02A0FF]  Multimedia Audio Controller [FE02B000 - FE02B3FF]  ATI SMBus [FE02F000 - FE02F1FF]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [FEC00000 - FEC0FFFF]  System board [FEE00000 - FEE0FFFF]  System board [FFF80000 - FFFDFFFF]  System board [FFFE0000 - FFFFFFFF]  System board
******************** IO PORT SUMMARY ********************
I/O Ports Usage Summary: [00000000 - 0000000F]  Direct memory access controller [00000020 - 00000021]  Programmable interrupt controller [00000022 - 0000003F]  PCI bus [00000040 - 00000043]  System timer [00000044 - 00000047]  PCI bus [0000004C - 0000006F]  PCI bus [00000060 - 00000060]  PC/AT Enhanced PS/2 Keyboard (101/102-Key) [00000061 - 00000061]  System speaker [00000064 - 00000064]  PC/AT Enhanced PS/2 Keyboard (101/102-Key) [00000070 - 00000071]  System CMOS/real time clock [00000072 - 0000007F]  PCI bus [00000081 - 00000083]  Direct memory access controller [00000087 - 00000087]  Direct memory access controller [00000089 - 0000008B]  Direct memory access controller [0000008F - 00000091]  Direct memory access controller [00000090 - 00000091]  PCI bus [00000093 - 0000009F]  PCI bus [000000A0 - 000000A1]  Programmable interrupt controller [000000A2 - 000000BF]  PCI bus [000000C0 - 000000DF]  Direct memory access controller [000000E0 - 000000EF]  PCI bus [000000F0 - 000000FF]  Numeric data processor [00000100 - 00000CF7]  PCI bus
Resource Summary Report   -  Page: 3
[00000170 - 00000177]  Secondary IDE Channel [000001F0 - 000001F7]  Primary IDE Channel [00000274 - 00000277]  ISAPNP Read Data Port [00000279 - 00000279]  ISAPNP Read Data Port [00000376 - 00000376]  Secondary IDE Channel [00000378 - 0000037F]  ECP Printer Port (LPT1) [000003B0 - 000003BB]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [000003B0 - 000003BB]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  [000003C0 - 000003DF]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [000003C0 - 000003DF]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  *[000003F0 - 000003F5]  Standard floppy disk controller [000003F6 - 000003F6]  Primary IDE Channel *[000003F7 - 000003F7]  Standard floppy disk controller [00000778 - 0000077F]  ECP Printer Port (LPT1) [00000800 - 0000087F]  Motherboard resources [00000A79 - 00000A79]  ISAPNP Read Data Port [00000B00 - 00000B0F]  ATI SMBus [00000D00 - 0000FFFF]  PCI bus [0000DC00 - 0000DCFF]  Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC [0000DE00 - 0000DE07]  PCI Data Fax SoftModem with SmartCP [0000E000 - 0000EFFF]  PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge [0000EE00 - 0000EEFF]  ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series  [0000F900 - 0000F90F]  ATI IDE Controller [0000FB00 - 0000FB0F]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [0000FC00 - 0000FC03]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [0000FD00 - 0000FD07]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [0000FE00 - 0000FE03]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [0000FF00 - 0000FF07]  Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller

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Gary Case

Open Device Manager.   Be sure that's the active window, then press Alt - PrintScreen.

Open Paint (Programs - Accessories - Paint) and do a Paste [Edit - Paste].   Now do a "Save As" [File - Save As] and change the type to JPEG.   Name the file whatever you like => be sure you pay attention to WHERE you're saving it.

Now simply click on the "Attach File" button for your next comment ... and you can attach the screen shot you just saved.   This is very useful for posting ANY screens that you see that might be helpful.

... So NOW post your Device Manager display :-)
JGawne

ASKER
...sometimes when you're a self-learner, you miss these little tricks along the way.  I never knew you could do that....
Please see attached and thanks for the lesson.  :)

DevMgr.jpg
Gary Case

The issue is clearly missing chipset drivers.   I believe the Presario SR1738NX uses the same chipset as your system, so these drivers should help:  ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software6/COL13270/pv-36944-1/sp26608.exe
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Gary Case

... Note:  the chipset drivers should resolve everything except the sound (Multimedia Audio Controller).   This should take care of that (install the chipset drivers first):  ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software6/COL13266/pv-36940-1/sp26599.exe
JGawne

ASKER
garycase,
I tried this installation before with different chipset updates (from hp).  I get that "BIOS is loading default" checksum error.  Is there  a way to test the CMOS battery before investing in a new one?
JGawne

ASKER
Also, please excuse my ignorance again but can you tell me what I'm updating in Device Manager?  The link you sent instructs me to go through there and will not do this automatically.  Thanks much.
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JGawne

ASKER
hi.  i think I figured it out.  I updated the driver for the ATI SMbus but when I look at the properties, it tells me there is no driver installed.  
JGawne

ASKER
I have run the update from the link you provided.  I uninstalled the devices that were having issues.  I rebooted the computer.  Nothing has changed.  Have I missed  a step here?
-Thanks for keeping at this.  I really appreciate it!
Gary Case

If you're continuing to get the "BIOS is loading defaults" there may be a problem with the motherboard ... or you may simply need a new CMOS battery.   I'd try a new CMOS battery first (these are only a couple dollars) => you should be able to get one locally for ~ $2 ... or here's one for $3.99 including shipping:  http://www.batterybob.com/product.asp?intProdID=101232  [You can buy a pack of 5 for $6.98 -- http://www.batterybob.com/product.asp?intProdID=101632 ]

Not sure what your current state of drivers is ... but if you've attempted to install the links I provided those drivers should be in a folder on the system (where they were extracted when you ran the files from the links).   Go to Device Manager; right-click on each of the exclamation point items; and select "Update Driver" ... try both letting it search; and simply "pointing" it to the folder where the files were extracted and see if that resolves the chipset issue.
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JGawne

ASKER
When I update the ATI SMBus it tells me it is finished installing the softwhere.
When I go to update the drivers for the other issues this is what I get...
"The specified location does not contain information about your hardware".  

Is there a test to see if it is a motherboard issue?  

I will try the battery today.

Thanks.
Gary Case

Hard to directly know if it's a motherboard issue => the most common motherboard failures involve deteriorated capacitors ... which you've already checked for.

... I think your issue here is much more likely simply needing the correct chipset drivers and possibly a new CMOS battery.  

Here are HP's instructions for installing the chipset drivers (the ... 26608 link from above):

1. Download the driver package.
2. Double-click on the icon for the driver package downloaded in Step 1, and then click NEXT.
3. Select I accept the terms in the license agreement, and then click NEXT.
4. Click OK to continue. The original drivers are now stored in the C:\SoftPaq\sp26608 folder.
5. If Device Manager does not start automatically, use the following steps. Otherwise go to Step 6:
   a. Click Start.
   b. Right-click My Computer, and then select Properties.
   c. Click the Hardware tab, and then click the Device Manager button.
6. Click the + (plus) sign next to "System devices" or "Other devices".
7. Right-click SMBus Controller or the device you want to update, and then select Update Driver....
8. Click NEXT to install the software automatically.
9. Click FINISHED to complete the installation.
JGawne

ASKER
I followed those directions exactly.  ATISMBus is the device I updated.  System said software was installed.  I cannot install any other device with that file however.
I have to get another battery but on a side note..if the clock is keeping time exactly, would the battery be the issue?
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Gary Case

The battery shouldn't be an issue if the system is always powered on ... but SOMETHING is causing a checksum problem with your CMOS -> and it's very simple to eliminate the battery as a possibility by simply swapping it.

r.e. "... ATISMBus is the device I updated ..." ==>  That's not even shown on the Device Manager display you posted.   Did you try an "Update Driver" for the devices shown there?  (e.g. the floppy controller; 1394 controller; USB controllers; etc.)

Another thought:  This may be related to your intentional use of the wrong HAL.   What I would do is image the current install;  then try your HP recovery disks again ... but after you've replaced the battery.   A quick 10-15 minutes to image would let you at least get back to exactly where you are now in 10 minutes if the restore still doesn't work.



JGawne

ASKER
Hi...sorry,
the ATI SMbus was under "System" and I didn't have that showing when I snipped the picture.
Also, I did try to "update driver" for those other devices and the message I get is that Windows could not find a better driver.  I tried to do this manually with the file link you gave me but the message I get says the file I am trying to use does not have information for the hardware I am trying to install.
I will try the reinstall with the recovery disks.  I was able to get past the point of needing the disks when the system freezes up but then I can't get anywhere from there.  Do you have suggestions to get beyond that point?  I can always go the wrong HAL to get things back to where they are at this point.  Nothing has changed yet.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you're not giving up on me yet!
I can check this site on another computer if you have suggestions regarding the "freeze" but I am running to get a new battery right now first.
Thanks.

system.JPG
JGawne

ASKER
Hello again.  Here is where things stand now...
I ran the HP recovery disks again.  The setup froze after the computer booted into windows and started to gather system information.  I did see the desktop briefly but then it went into the info gathering screen where it froze.
I shut down the computer and restarted
The computer froze before the Windows logo.
I shut down the computer again and restarted.
I was asked if I wanted to start windows normally or in safe mode.
I chose normal.  Windows logo came on like it was going to boot and then went to a black screen and froze.
I shut down the computer again thinking it might just skip what it was trying to do at startup.
Restarted.  Saw windows logo.  Again freeze at black screen.
Shut down the computer.
This time I chose safe mode.
last two files shown during safe mode process are mup.sys and then gagp30kx.sys.
Then system froze.
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JGawne

ASKER
..continued from last post...
I believe the freeze happens between the Windows XP logo screen and right before the log in screen....hope that helps.
JGawne

ASKER
...another continuation...

just for fun and after looking at some questions and answers in the EE knowledge base...I put an old PCI video card in the computer.  So far the computer is going further in the setup process and is on the "please wait" screen.  It has not frozen yet.  I will keep you posted on the progress in a couple of hours.

JGawne

ASKER
Ok.  after a couple of hours of the recovery disks running the setup and doing something with the recovery partition I received a "successful" notice.

However...and ya knew there had to be one eh?...NOW when I boot up, we're back once again to Windows freezing right after the WIndows logo screen.  I tried normal startup and safe mode to no avail.  Is it actually possible that the old video card I put in went bad also???
HELP!
Thanks again and again.
Your help has saved me hundreds of hours of internet surfing.
fblack61
JGawne

ASKER
P.S.  Please please please don't give up on me yet! :)
_

Did you try disabling all onboard I/O things in the BIOS?
USB, NIC, Sound, Power Management... everything but the IDE/SATA.
Gary Case

r.e.  "... I updated the driver for the ATI SMbus ==>  Why did you try that (which did NOT show any issues in Device Manager) instead of the devices that DO show exclamation points in Device Manager?

Did you replace the CMOS battery?

Is there ANYTHING in the system that's different than when it was originally purchased?  (new video card; additional memory; add-in cards; etc.)
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JGawne

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coral47...no I haven't tried that but I will.

garycase...I updated that because that was what the file name was called (remember I'm only borderline intermediate user here)
Battery is changed.  Nothing new because the people who own it don't know how to add anything new.

Thanks
JGawne

ASKER
I/O devices disabled in BIOS did not do the trick.
No matter what I try...any safe mode....freezes at gagp30.kx.sys.
Is it true that this might not necessarily be the file that is causing the issue and that it could be the next one in line?
JGawne

ASKER
Ok.  Here is an update.
I disconnected the multi card reader (which I had done before) and the CD/DVD drives from the motherboard.  The computer started up and I am in the process of running updates from both HP and Windows.  I have not reconnected those two things as of yet (actually it's three devices because the two CD/DVD drives are on one cable.  The card reader came with the computer so it is not a "new" device per se but it looks like one of these things is causing the problem.  I will reconnect one at a time and see if I can pinpoint it.  Do you have any suggestions before I go any further?  As soon as I have this completely up and running I will be awarding points too.  THANK YOU! :)
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Gary Case

The multi-card reader is almost certainly the culprit here => USB devices have a nasty way of causing issues ... ESPECIALLY if there was anything plugged into the reader (was there?).

I'd definitely connect the optical drives first --> they're very unliikely to be the source of the problem.
JGawne

ASKER
Will do.  There is nothing in the multi-card reader.  I'm going to attempt an install but if it doesn't work they're just going to have to do without for the time being!
I'll be back in a bit with hopefully no more problems and get the points out there!  If someone can explain to me how the point system works, it would save me from having to look it up! haha (kidding, I don't have a problem looking it up!)
OutlawSystems

I had a system once that was similar to your situation. ONLY ONCE have I seen this. I was troubleshooting this machine for hours. (Doesn't normally take that long). I finally fell back on the basics, swapping out one device at a time with the bare minimums in place. Once I disconnected the cd-rom everything worked correctly. I have no idea why. The only thing that was a tell-tale sign was the access light stayed on for that drive. It was a Dell machine if I remember correctly. As soon as I unplugged it everything worked fine. While it was plugged in, I couldn't even get safe-mode to come up.

Connect those devices one at a time and see which one stops the system from booting.
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JGawne

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UNBELIEVABLE.  Simply unbelievable.  I got the system up and running.  Updated the computer using the HP Update and Windows update. Shut down.  Powered off.  Connected the multi-card reader.  Started the computer.  Froze up after the splash screen.  Shut down.  Disconnected the multi-card reader.  Still froze up.  Same thing happened with the two dvd drives.  Now I can't get back in the system at all.  This is unbelievable.  Any ideas?  How do I stop whatever driver it is that is causing this grief from loading?  I have unplugged EVERYTHING now and disabled everything in BIOS.  No go.  Still cannot get into windows.  Back to the drawing board if anyone can help.
Gary Case

Wow ... this is definitely acting weird.   Did you try disabling your USB ports in the BIOS?  (Just curious if that was part of "everything" that you disabled)

Did you have a "clean" Device Manager before you shut down?

... this could be a variety of things; if possible I'd try a different - larger - power supply, to eliminate power as an issue.   Unstable power can cause a lot of anomalous issues.


_

Ditto that 'Wow'.

Do you have another system you can try the card reader in? With a clean install that will not hurt anything if it trashes the OS.
If the reader works there, than you probably have a mobo problem.
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JGawne

ASKER
garycase:  The device manager was BEAUTIFUL!  I was so thrilled!  Everything was working well.  
Let me ask you this:  When a new device is connected, does windows automatically add drivers before the windows actually loads?  Is it possible that I connected the card reader, windows started to add files for it and then it froze before I even was able to load to the desktop?  Safe mode stops at the exact same place every time.  Also, if I install another OS on another partition (would be the wrong HAL I'm sure) can I access those files that are loading on the other partition in order to see what the file is that is causing me grief?  Not sure if I'm on the right track here but I'm sure everything was fine before I connected that card reader.

coral47: I will try the card reader in another system.  At this point I am willing to throw the card reader out the window just to get back into the system!
Gary Case

".. When a new device is connected, does windows automatically add drivers before the windows actually loads? " ==>  Yes and no.   It begins the process during the boot (after the Windows drivers "take control" ... but often continues at the desktop (with the "found new hardware" icon on the tray or with the "found new hardware" wizard if it needs to look more extensively for a driver.   But in the case of the simple USB card reader, I'd think the driver install was completed before the desktop, since it's such a simple device.

If you haven't already done so, unplug the system for a while (at least 5 minutes), and then try it again (without the card reader, of course).   This is a case where a spare power supply would be VERY handy to help eliminate power as a potential cause (doesn't seem likely; but unstable power can cause a lot of strange issues).
JGawne

ASKER
I give up.  If anybody has any other suggestions, please post.  I have just re-installed AGAIN using the recovery Cd's and this time it did not work.  I can't spend much more time troubleshooting this machine as I am doing it for free and I've spent a lot of time on this.  If anyone has any last ditch efforts to suggest, I will try anything.  I hate to give back this computer without having fixed it.  I will award all of the 500 points tomorrow.  Thanks for all of your help anyway.  :(
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Gary Case

I think there's an excellent chance you have an unstable power supply -> that's not the only possibility here; but the sporadic nature of the problem tends to support that.   If at all possible, I'd try the system with a different PSU  (do you have one you could temporarily "borrow" from another PC?)   The stock PSU is probably only a 250-300w unit ... I'd try a larger unit if at all possible.

... if that doesn't work, then it's almost certainly a motherboard issue.
JGawne

ASKER
i will try that. I am wondering if there is a way to allow/disallow files to be loaded as windows boots up.  It ALWAYS freezes at the same place during safe mode...it ALWAYS freezes right after the windows splash screen.  If I could see what it is, maybe I can do something about it.  
I'll get on the power supply and see what that is doing.
P.S.  The fans don't stop running, nor do they slow down when the computer freezes.  There is no visible signs of power failing.
Gary Case

"... There is no visible signs of power failing." ==>  I wouldn't expect any.   And as I've noted before, this may not be the issue;  but it's certainly worth checking before replacing the motherboard.

"... It ALWAYS freezes at the same place during safe mode ..." ==>  This implies you've getting the system installed okay, but it won't then boot ... is that correct?    You can watch what's actually being loaded by pressing F8 at the start of the boot process and selecting "Enable Boot Logging"
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JGawne

ASKER
Crazy as this may sound, I did ANOTHER destructive recovery using HP recovery disks.  Couldn't get past setup cuz it kept freezing.  On one of my MANY reboots, I had a little hissy fit...(I'm ok now) and started pressing ctrl-shift, ctrl-esc, shift-ctrl and got the safe mode startup screen.  I pressed safe mode with command prompt..AND GOT IN!  This is insane.  I have access to Task Manager and Run.  Can get into msconfig.  Before I reboot anything is there some setting I can change to hopefully not freeze again on reboot?
JGawne

ASKER
P.S.  I have not swapped power supply yet as I am unable to get a hold of one until tomorrow.
Gary Case

So at the moment you're in XP at the Safe Mode screen?

If so, I'd run MSConfig and disable ALL startup items ==> then see if it will boot to the "normal" desktop.
This might be a driver issue afterall ... if so, you must have the wrong restore CDs.
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JGawne

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I disabled all startup items and when it rebooted it started to log in and finish a setup process...
It froze on Startling Plug and Play and I have a cursor (arrow) and Safe Mode in all four corners and a black screen.  I am unable to bring up task manager.
JGawne

ASKER
Sorry.  It froze for a few minutes and now I am in safe mode at the desktop.  I can get into task manager or msconfig if need be.  I am almost afraid to do anything at this point because I still do not know what is causing the freeze.
Gary Case

Simply disable all Startup items and then see if it will reboot to "normal" windows.
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JGawne

ASKER
so far the setup process is completing.  This happened once before.  I installed HP updates and Windows updates.  Then I connected components and we went right back to freeze.  ANy ideas on how to avoid that?
Gary Case

Afraid not.   As I noted before, your symptoms are very strange.   I'd simply leave the card reader uninstalled and see if all is well.   Then (if it is), I'd image the system before doing anything else; and then plug in the card reader.
JGawne

ASKER
Can you tell me how to image the system? That was suggested once before but I don't know how to do that.  You've been so helpful and I appreciate that you never gave up on this issue.
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Gary Case

First step:  Download the free demo of Boot-It NG and create a bootable CD (or floppy if your system has one).   http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm

When that's done, test it => when it boots, select CANCEL at the first prompt; then OK at the next.   You should see a screen something like the one below (it won't be exactly the same).


When you get that done, post back & I'll guide you through the actual imaging process.

Main-Menu.jpg
JGawne

ASKER
ok.  i am at that screen.  I will check back in the morning and do the next step.  It's after midnight and I can't keep my eyes open!  You are SUPER! Thank you!
Gary Case

Okay.  I may be here a bit in the afternoon, but will be gone all evening -- but I'll check when I can.
I'll need to know a couple of things ... post the details when you get a chance:

=>  How much space is currently in use on the C: drive on the a1330n you're working on?  Just click on My Computer; right-click on C: and see how much space is in use.

=>  Do you have an external USB hard drive?  (It needs to have a good bit of free space ... about 60% of the size of the C: drive on the a1330n)

=>  Boot to the screen above [Boot, CANCEL, OK];   then click on Partition Work and post EXACTLY what it shows in the middle of the screen.   It should look something like this ... I want the details shown in the center [MBR Entry 0 - Partition - 80003MB HPFS/NTFS,  etc.]




Partition-Work---HD2.jpg
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JGawne

ASKER
space in use is :  8.73GB on a 250GB hard drive

sadly I do not have a usb hard drive as of yet.  It is on my list of wants but unable to get at this time.

MBR Entry 0   Partition 12041 MB FAT-32
HP_PAVILION-1   Partition 226424MB  HPFS/NTFS
-------------------   Partition      8 MB   Free Space


OutlawSystems

As crazy as this sounds, did you ever check to see if the motherboard in the machine is the original motherboard for the system? Also, before you started this re-install, what happened to make you feel you needed to? Was there any other hardware change?
JGawne

ASKER
OutlawSystems:  THe motherboard is the original.  The owner thinks there may have been viruses.  I have no idea as I didn't check.  There was no getting into the system at all.    The owner had no problem with wiping everything out and starting new so the reinstall was a good option.  99% of the time, in my experience anyway, that has fixed any problems that I've come across.  This one is a first for me.  The owner says there is no new hardware on the system but I do know they had someone else look at it before me.
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OutlawSystems

I would ask what sort of activity made them think there was viruses on the system.
JGawne

ASKER
I do not know.  I would have asked that too if someone else hadn't looked at it before me.  For all I know, the person before me could have already tried a reinstall.  I have no idea what they did.  
Gary Case

Have a few minutes, so I'll post a quick set of instructions to create an image:

=>  Boot to Boot-It (as before, CANCEL, then OK).

=>  Click on Partition Work

=>  Highlight the 2nd partition (HP_PAVILION-1   Partition 226424MB  HPFS/NTFS)

=>  Click on ReSize ... when it asks for the new size (after it does a bit of error checking), set it to 200000 and then wait for it to finish.   What we're doing here is freeing up some space for the image.

=>  Remove the Boot-It disk and reboot the system to XP ... wait a minute or so until it tells you it needs to reboot.  (It will think the hard disk has changed, since the size is different)

=>  Boot to Boot-It again [same drill:  CANCEL, then OK].   Click on Partition Work; highlight the free space at the end of the drive; and click on Create --> create a new NTFS partition using the max space.

=>  When that's done (still in Partition Work), highlight the 2nd partition (HP_PAVILION-1   Partition 226424MB  HPFS/NTFS) again; click Image; select Create an Image [You should now see a "Paste Pending ..." message at the bottom];  then highlight the new partition you just created and click Paste.  
Type a filename (it can't be more than 8 characters, no spaces); then click OK.   Just accept the default size on the next screen; then tell it whether or not to validate it (not necessary to do this).   Then just wait until it's done (probably 5-10 minutes).

At this point you'll have a good image of the newly installed system "tucked away".   You can then try anything you want with it; and can restore it back to the exact same state as when you took the image in just a few minutes.  Do NOT use the restore disks anymore => restoring the image is much faster; and the restore disks will repartition the disk again and wipe out your image !!

I'll check back later tonight ...


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fblack61
JGawne

ASKER
ok.  new error.  When I went to paste the image I got a message that says "Unable to mount the file system"
Gary Case

I'm on my way out the door ... but a quick note:  You probably didn't format the new partition (I think that may be a box you needed to check).  A couple of ways to do that => I don't recall if Boot-It will give you a format option if you click Properties or not.   If not, just delete that last partition (the new one you created); then create it again, but be sure you've (a) selected HPFS/NTFS as the partition type; and (b) that you've checked the "Format" box.   Once the partition is formatted, the image process should work just fine.

Later ...
JGawne

ASKER
I am formatting the new space in Windows...I hope that was the right move.
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sorry.  i started to format before I saw your post.  If it doesn't work, I'll do it your way.
Gary Case

Formatting it in Windows is perfect => that will resolve the issue.   Imaging should work just fine now.
JGawne

ASKER
how do I restore the image when I can't even boot into safe mode?
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JGawne

ASKER
I see my previous post didn't post.  I started to add components back into the computer.  The first thing I added was the 2nd stick of RAM.  Computer froze after splash screen.  Back to square one.
Gary Case

Did you make an image before adding components?
JGawne

ASKER
yes.  i followed your directions.
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Gary Case

Okay, you can try this with or without the new components installed (although with may cause the same issue as soon as it starts to boot).

To restore to exactly the way it was when you made the image:

=>  Boot to Boot-It [The usual CANCEL - OK sequence].

=>  Highlight the 3rd partition (the one you created to store the image)

=>  Click on Image; then select Restore; then "point" to the image file you created and click OK.   You should now get a "Paste Pending for Image Restore" message on the bottom (wording may be slightly different)

=>  Highlight the 2nd partition (the big partition that you created the image from), and click on Paste.   You may have to give the partition a name (depends on the exact structure of the original partition); and it will ask if you want to validate that the image is valid (not necessary to do).   Once you start the restore, just wait for it to complete.   Then click back to the main screen; remove the Boot-It media; and click on ReBoot.

I would still try a different power supply with this system => adding memory; adding a USB card reader; etc. should not cause these issues.    The "weirdness" of the failures here tend to favor a defective motherboard;  but spurious power could equally be the cause ... and it's a lot easier to eliminate that by trying a different PSU) than it is to replace the motherboard.


JGawne

ASKER
Well, restore didn't work.  I wish I had another power supply to try but the only one I have is smaller than the connector on the machine I'm working on.  I don't have the funds to get another one at this time unfortunately.  
If you have no other suggestions, I will close this and award the points.  I can't tell you how grateful I am that you didn't give up on me!!
JGawne

ASKER
Also, why is it that Windows ran under the wrong HAL (except the USB drives, etc etc)   Is there another HAL I can install that will install all of the devices?  I used "Standard PC" before.
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OutlawSystems

I would try to re-install from scratch using the Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC HAL.
JGawne

ASKER
I just did that for the Uniprocessor ACPI option a few minutes ago.  Setup froze at Setup is starting Windows.  Can't get past that point.
JGawne

ASKER
I don't know anything about mobo jumpers but would resetting those do anything?
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Gary Case

"... Well, restore didn't work ... " ==>  Clarify that.   Did the process not work (Boot-It gave you an error message; etc.) ?  ... or did the process work (Boot-It gave you the "Operation completed successfully" box), but the system wouldn't boot after it?
JGawne

ASKER
OH sorry.  Boot-it worked like it should have.  We're just back to freezing after the splash screen.
Gary Case

So just to be clear:

(1)  The system worked okay with the system as it was when you did the image.

but

(2)  After it started hanging, you restored that exact image (the only one you have I suspect) and the system still hangs.

If those are correct, then the problem is almost certainly either unstable power or a motherboard issue.
Since your capacitors all look good (you might want to double-check that), I'd definitely check power first.   The motherboard on that system uses a standard ATX power supply => while I'd prefer a higher quality unit, you can get a reasonable PSU to test with for as little as $25 (plus $9.25 shipping):  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023    I'd certainly think that's worth a try.
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JGawne

ASKER
ok.  i ordered it.  I'll get back in a few days.  It's something I'll use again I'm sure.  Thanks!  Should I award points or should I wait?
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JGawne

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I wanted to award all the points to garycase because you didn't give up on me.  I awarded some to PUNKY because there was a good effort.  I appreciate your help and I hope I did this right!  It's the first time I've used Experts Exchange like this.  THANK YOU!
PUNKY

Thank for the points assigned. I am not giving up but I wanted to stay out the way for Garycase since he knows best in this hardware section.
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I'm sorry PUNKY.  I hope I didn't handle this wrong!  I'll be setting up a new question in a few days I'm sure!  THANK YOU!
JGawne

ASKER
UPDATE:  I rec'd a new power supply.  Installed it.  No power.  Wouldn't power up at all.  Reconnected the old power supply.  System froze on splash screen.  I ctrl-alt-del (had to do that twice) and it booted up.  Started running the hp updates for the system.  Took a few minutes of black screen after the splash screen but it booted back up to the desktop.  Not sure what's going on here.  I'll keep you posted.  Going to try to get this updated with all the security fixes/patches.  I'll let you know!
Gary Case

Are you sure you connected all of the appropriate power connectors with the new supply?   There's usually both a 24-pin ATX power connection AND a 4-pin additional CPU connection that must both be connected.   It's also possible, of course, that you received a defective PSU (it happens ... fortunately not very often; but you never know).
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