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G4 MDD Dual freezes apparently at random
My Powermac G4 freezes. OS version is 10.4.11.
Cursor stops moving. No error messages. No crash log. Must press power button to turn off, then reboot. No apparent pattern. Has happened 30 or 40 times in the last two weeks. Computer gets 4-10 hours use a day.
I suspected a hardware problem and tried to locate a copy of Apple Hardware Test with no luck.
Concurrently I have discovered that I have lost the ability to access my local network (PC running XP), so the problem could be related to recent OS upgrades. I click on the network icon and nothing pops up. However, I can still do a save-as from Excel to a local PC running Vista. Network problem may be related.
I suspect bad hardware or heat or recent security upgrades.
Any way to diagnose?
Cursor stops moving. No error messages. No crash log. Must press power button to turn off, then reboot. No apparent pattern. Has happened 30 or 40 times in the last two weeks. Computer gets 4-10 hours use a day.
I suspected a hardware problem and tried to locate a copy of Apple Hardware Test with no luck.
Concurrently I have discovered that I have lost the ability to access my local network (PC running XP), so the problem could be related to recent OS upgrades. I click on the network icon and nothing pops up. However, I can still do a save-as from Excel to a local PC running Vista. Network problem may be related.
I suspect bad hardware or heat or recent security upgrades.
Any way to diagnose?
dude02
Check out this website: http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/
ASKER
I tried several utilities on the first page but they only work with Leapord. i went back as far as page 19 without finding anything useful (when did Tiger come out, anyway?).
Did you have a particular utility in mind?
thanks,
JO
Did you have a particular utility in mind?
thanks,
JO
Go to \applications\utilities and open Disk Utility. Run Verify Disk. If it shows any errors, restart while holding down the shift key to force a disk repair, then run verify disk a second time to see if the repairs were successful.
Also, have you installed any new RAM recently? If so, try removing it.
Also, have you installed any new RAM recently? If so, try removing it.
ASKER
Thank you for the suggestions.
I verified the disk when the problem started. It needed some repair, which I did, but that did not solve the problem.
I did a SuperDuper! backup to another drive and made it the startup. Problem continued.
Computer was bought about a year ago on eBay. I installed 2Gb cheap RAM at that time. I think it might be the problem but I don't know how to test it. I believe Apple Hardware test will work but don't know how to find a copy of the correct version (and I don't know what the correct version is)
I verified the disk when the problem started. It needed some repair, which I did, but that did not solve the problem.
I did a SuperDuper! backup to another drive and made it the startup. Problem continued.
Computer was bought about a year ago on eBay. I installed 2Gb cheap RAM at that time. I think it might be the problem but I don't know how to test it. I believe Apple Hardware test will work but don't know how to find a copy of the correct version (and I don't know what the correct version is)
This is a great website for Tiger OS. They have several great utilities that will help you out.
http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/tiger/systemutilities/?by=releaseDate&dir=desc&pg=1
http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/tiger/systemutilities/?by=releaseDate&dir=desc&pg=1
Try taking out the cheap RAM and re-installing the original RAM.
ASKER
I don't have the original any more. Is there any way to diagnose the RAM I have?
You could diagnose the RAM you have with the hardware diagnostic CD, but I gather you don't have it either. TechTool Pro would work as well: http://www.micromat.com
ASKER
I have downloaded Rember from the Versiontracker website and have started running memory tests with it. It seems to take hours to run so I may have to do it overnight when I don't need the computer. If the memory comes up OK I will try the TechTool Pro & report back. I think I have the tools to diagnose now, at least.
ASKER
UPDATE. UPDATE. UPDATE.
Finally I have a correlation!
(please NOTE that I have tested memory, which was fine, and reinstalled OSX. No changes)
Sleep is the cause, or at least is related.
I noticed that freezes always seem to occur right after waking up from sleep. I remembered that my USB 2.0 bus card was 'not compatible with deep sleep (whatever that is)' and pulled it. Computer still froze right after its first awakening.
I have now been running three days with no sleep and no freezes.
When I first got this computer it would go for a week between reboots with no freezing at all. It just got bad recently. The most recent worsening was after we had a power failure while it was asleep. That more than doubled the frequency of freezes.
SO: what is causing this? What hardware/software handles the sleep function? I don't want to use it without sleeping.
Finally I have a correlation!
(please NOTE that I have tested memory, which was fine, and reinstalled OSX. No changes)
Sleep is the cause, or at least is related.
I noticed that freezes always seem to occur right after waking up from sleep. I remembered that my USB 2.0 bus card was 'not compatible with deep sleep (whatever that is)' and pulled it. Computer still froze right after its first awakening.
I have now been running three days with no sleep and no freezes.
When I first got this computer it would go for a week between reboots with no freezing at all. It just got bad recently. The most recent worsening was after we had a power failure while it was asleep. That more than doubled the frequency of freezes.
SO: what is causing this? What hardware/software handles the sleep function? I don't want to use it without sleeping.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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ASKER
I will have to borrow an Apple keyboard and mouse. I will try this tomorrow, hopefully.
Thanks.
Thanks.
ASKER
I began this experiment last night. Many sleeps & wakings so far, no freezes.
Assuming this continues, should I add back my USB devices one by one and see what happens?
Assuming this continues, should I add back my USB devices one by one and see what happens?
Yes. That would make sense.
Do you have a powered USB Hub, though? If you don't, the problem might not be a particular USB device. The problem might be that the USB devices as a group are drawing more power from the USB port than your Mac can supply. If you don't have a powered USB hub, I suggest you get one and see if that solves the problem.
Do you have a powered USB Hub, though? If you don't, the problem might not be a particular USB device. The problem might be that the USB devices as a group are drawing more power from the USB port than your Mac can supply. If you don't have a powered USB hub, I suggest you get one and see if that solves the problem.
ASKER
I have been using both a Stratitec USB 2.0 powered hub and a Sonnet USB2.0 card, with a Logitech USB keyboard, a Logitech USB mouse, a Logitech USB camera, a thumbdrive, a Maxtor USB external hard drive and, occasionally, an iPod.
Right now I suspect the keyboard or the mouse because they wake it up from sleep.
Right now I suspect the keyboard or the mouse because they wake it up from sleep.
Might also be the Sonnet card itself. You might check with their tech support to see if they have upgraded firmware or drivers.
ASKER
This gave me the key to finishing the diagnosis myself. If this happens again I can narrow it down quickly. Thank you!
What exactly turned out to be the problem?
ASKER
I have not finished replacing all the USB items so I'm not sure. The Sonnet hub is back in and the camera hooked up to it. I have not had a single freeze since I did what you suggested. Since I depend on the computer a lot I am reluctant to do rigorous testing. Frankly I am just reallly grateful the freezes have stopped. When/if I finally ID the culprit I will post it.
Thank you!
Thank you!