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SBS 2003 and Terminal Services

Posted on 2008-09-29
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This is fairly basic stuff, but I am struggling to understand it.
Up till now remote users have been logging on to the SBS over the internet using remote desktop for admin. This is incorrect, but it works for 2 users!

Now I need to add more concurrent users. You can't run SBS 2003 as a terminal server, so I have added a server loaded with Server 2003, configured it as a terminal server, and activated the terminal server CALs. Do I need to remove the terminal services functions from the SBS?

If I understand correctly, incoming remote users now need to look at the terminal server and not the SBS to log on. But the applications and documents are still on the SBS. I can point users to the applications by mapping the folder on the SBS to their desktop on the terminal server, but how do I point the users to documents and folders on their SBS desktops?  
 
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Question by:rich3tea
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by:ormerodrutter
ID: 22595929
Do you mean the MY Documents and Folder Redirections?? You can create new user folder on the terminal server and direct user My Doc and Folders to the new server instead of the SBS.

Recommend reinstall the application on the TS instead of running across networks.
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by:rich3tea
ID: 22598033
Thanks for your reply.
There are about 10 local and up to 4 remote users on the SBS, with no Exchange,
and only the one accounting package, so the machine is hardly overloaded. I'm not keen to put the application on the Terminal Server because it isn't as good a machine as the SBS.
Would using a direct network link between the SBS and the TS, using the spare network port on both machines, and a separate subnet, make much difference to the overall performance of the application? Even as it is set up now I think the internet connection is much slower than the network connection between the SBS and the TS.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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"Would using a direct network link between the SBS and the TS, using the spare network port on both machines, and a separate subnet, make much difference to the overall performance of the application? Even as it is set up now I think the internet connection is much slower than the network connection between the SBS and the TS. "

Absolutely not!  That would be a horrible way to set things up.  If your SBS machine is good, then just install Virtual Server on it and run your TS virtually on the same machine.  See http://sbsurl.com/vs for instructions.

Then you need to follow the documentation to install TS:  http://sbsurl.com/sbstss

You will need separate Terminal Server CALs for your remote users, so be sure to get those.

I am curious about your configuration though...

"SBS, with no Exchange"

Why no Exchange?  That's at the heart of SBS, and if you don't want Exchange then why are you running SBS in the first place?  Because you could otherwise use a standard Server 2003 for your needs.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:billy_Lunam
billy_Lunam earned 150 total points
ID: 22599557
We use a lot of terminal servers in combination with SBS.   Reading this I think you do not have a clear idea in your head of what a terminal server is.  Applications and document access are just the same as on a desktop PC.  The terminal server is added into the domain (like a PC) but as a member server (not a DC).  Then as users log on ther login scripts run giving them the same drive mappings as they would have from a PC.  Just make sure the users are logging into the domain and not the local server.

As with PC's on networks.  All doc's and data should be stored on the SBS were it gets backed up.  Just like a PC only the client component of a application is installed on the terminal Server.

Best config is to have the terminal server on the same subnet (keep it simple) as the server.

In breif think of a terminal server as a big PC.

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by:ormerodrutter
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Listen to Jeff and do NOT put two servers on different subnet - simply forget that idea.

"Even as it is set up now I think the internet connection is much slower than the network connection between the SBS and the TS" - Of course internet connection is slower. Internal network should give you somewhere like 100Mb (could be 1Gb = 1000Mb depending on your switch) while internet is 8Mb or 16Mb at most (normal broadband).

The two network cards should be setup as one pointing to WAN and one to LAN. Follow this Microsoft link to setup your two NICs in your SBS server.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/825763
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
ID: 22604993
I should make one other point.  When you add a Terminal Server to an SBS network the correct way (following the documentation) then external users will access it using Remote Web Workplace which will have a new link on it that says "connect to my company's application sharing server".  See http://sbsurl.com/rww for details.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:rich3tea
ID: 22609471
I am going to try Remote Web Workplace.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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After you properly join the Terminal Server to the domain... right?
Jeff
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by:rich3tea
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Jeff, I think I have linked the TS to the domain properly, because if I look in Terminal Services Manager, it shows me a user is logged into a session on the TS.

I do hope I'm not getting this all wrong. I am dismayed at the costs of setting up remote user access for a couple of users wanting to work on their spreadsheets at home, using terminal services. You have to purchase 5 TS CALs, 5 Server CALs AND 5 Office Standard licences, even if the users have Office already installed on their machines. This is now getting very expensive.
As far as Remote Web Workplace is concerned, the implication is that a person who normally works in the office on a desktop now wants to do some work at home on their home PC, so they effectively log into their work PC. In this case, the users have laptops and take their "work PC's" with them, or they work in a different town entirely, and don't have a "work PC" at all. So how do they log into a "work PC" if there aren't any.
I'm sorry if these are simple questions, but I have spent hours on the internet looking for this stuff, but I just don't get to the answers. Like Billy's suggestion to think of TS as a big PC.
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by:billy_Lunam
ID: 22622295
If all you want to do is access some documents loook at web folders as a option or WSS (sharepoint).  Another option is PPTP VPN terminated at the server, then they use offline folders or copy the docs up and down.

terminal server is used if you need to run applications like payroll or databases.,  Spreadsheet files can just be copied up or down when needed (web folders)
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by:ormerodrutter
ormerodrutter earned 150 total points
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Now you are telling us what are you doing with TS....billy is right if your users just want to access files then don't bother with TS, simply get them to VPN in. Sharepoint is another way forward but user has to upload the file beforehand (or all files are upload to sharepoint as standard).

If you want to use TS without RWW, you can create user profiles for each of your remote users (only 2 anyway) on that TS server (simply by logging on as them). Your remote users can log onto the TS server and work on it locally. No RWW. Just make sure you put them into the Remote Desktop Users (on the TS server) group.

In terms of licencing I think you "over purchased" what you need. Yes you need TS licence but you don't need Server CALs. Your SBS CALs already cover you using other W2K3 server within the network.

I don't think you need to buy 5 Office licence either. All you are doing is to install Office on the TS Server and your users should be entitled to user Office (on that server) with their TS CALs.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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Yes... if these users have laptops which are their office PC's, then you just need to provide them VPN access and the laptop will work the same as if it was in the office.

Please see http://sbsurl.com/remote for an overview of different remote access options with SBS.

To make sure that the VPN is properly configured see http://sbsurl.com/vpn (ignore the last part about using RDP... that's not required, nor is it necessary).  Instead, have the laptop users log into the RWW main menu and download the SBS Connection Manager which will be properly configured to establish their VPN connection.
You absolutely DON'T need a Terminal Server for these users.

Jeff
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by:ormerodrutter
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But one thing I want to add is that running an application through VPN connection is not ideal. E.g. if you are running Sage report on your VPN session then you may as well forget it. So if you are using VPN make sure they are light users (getting file etc) and not running apps through the connection,
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by:rich3tea
ID: 22624787
As well as access to spreadsheets and documents, users need access to the company accounting package running on the SBS. I have loaded the client software on the TS, and it works remotely.  
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Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy earned 200 total points
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Access to spreadsheets and documents is no problem.  But if Sage actually runs on the SBS without a client-side portion of the app then it can be a problem over a VPN connection.  In which case you would either need a terminal server... OR you can certainly just add a couple of XP Clients on the LAN for users to connect to using RWW.  This will be much less expensive than a full blown TS.  You could also run these XP clients virtually on the SBS if your SBS's hardware is beefy enough.

Jeff
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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I guess I should have also responded to this:
"Jeff, I think I have linked the TS to the domain properly, because if I look in Terminal Services Manager, it shows me a user is logged into a session on the TS."

The fact that you see it in Terminal Services Manager isn't what I was referring to.  Did you follow the steps outlined in http://sbsurl.com/sbstss ?  Because what I was referring to was whether or not the TS showed up on the RWW Main Menu.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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by:rich3tea
ID: 22648332
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
RWW is not really an option because there aren't any free desktops during the day to act as the "host".
Virtual server cannot be bought separately anymore - it is now part of Server.
The best solution appears to be Terminal Services.
The next issue was which version of Office to buy. I will need a Volume Licence Key with a minimum of 5 licences. Not very economical when only 2 users need "Excel" - the others will only be using the accounting package, but there you are.
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by:rich3tea
ID: 31501135
Thanks.
Why is this all so difficult? Because it keeps everyone busy.
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by:Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasy
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"RWW is not really an option because there aren't any free desktops during the day to act as the "host"."

This is why I suggested that you add a couple of desktop PC's in the office for these folks.  It would certainly be less expensive than implementing a Terminal Server.

"Virtual server cannot be bought separately anymore - it is now part of Server. "

Not true.  Hyper-V is part of Server 2008, but you can certainly download and install Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2 for FREE.  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/

"The best solution appears to be Terminal Services."

I disagree, based on the two things I stated above.

"The next issue was which version of Office to buy. I will need a Volume Licence Key with a minimum of 5 licences. Not very economical when only 2 users need "Excel" - the others will only be using the accounting package, but there you are."

If that's all they need, then you can buy new desktop machines that include Office 2007 BASIC OEM for less than what a single volume license of Office costs.

Based on the above, I really don't understand why you feel as though this is so difficult to accomplish, and why you chose to give a grade of "B" for my answer.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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