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Why do we need Oracle 10g Forms to be hooked up to Oracle 11i application server.

Posted on 2008-10-04
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Last Modified: 2013-12-18
Hi,
I have doubt and I thought of getting a clarification from you guys.
The problem is as follows:

My company earlier used to maintain records for display and storage purpose using Oracle portal. But now it seems Oracle support to Oracle Portal is being limited. Hence my company asked our team to develop a strategy to face problems that would arise.

My manager said we will upgrade the entire system using Oracle 10g forms (i,e., using Oracle 10g database) and he says once the system is upgraded by using Oracle Forms and Oracle 10g database we shall hook up these forms to Oracle 11i Application server.

Now my question  are :
1. Why to upgrade the system by using Oracle 10g forms when we have Oracle 11i apps server with us which already have built in forms ( as per my understanding) that can be used for this purpose?
2. When database is on Oracle 10g Server and Forms are also on 10g Server, how he will hook up the forms to Oracle 11i Apps Server?
3.Why he is not going on with 10g server alone and why is he bringing 11i apps server into picture?

It would be very helpful if you can explain me in detail and also rpovide me with relavent links where I can find the materil on the net. Please I need the explanation on this because I am a starter and I am not able to understand what my manager is exactly going to do.

Hope to get a reply from you soon.
Thanks,
vkg_26.
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Question by:vkg_26
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by:Mark Geerlings
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The various versions of Oracle Forms, the Oracle database, and the Oracle Application server are *NOT* usually released at the same time.  So, not they don't all have to be the same version.  For example, our legacy (client/server) system is still based on Oracle Forms6 (there never was an Oracle Forms7 or 8) while our database version is Oracle10.  We don't use Portal or the Oracle Application Server much in our current system, and I am not sure of the versions we have of them, but they are likely different from our database version.  Just FYI, I tested our Oracle Forms6 with an Oracle11 database, and that combination works!

We are in the process of migrating to Oracle's EBS product.  That is "release 12" but it uses Oracle Forms10, and Oracle Application server11, and either Oracle database10.2 or 11.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your questions, or not, but the picture may not be quite as clear and simple as you were hoping.
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by:schwertner
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Oracle 10 Forms doesn't mean Oracle 10g.
It is only development environment.
Yes, even Forms 6i is able to work with Oracle 10g
(and as markgeer said - with Oracle 11g) but only
patched.

Oracle App. servere 11i doesn't exist (or i haven' heard).
Possibly you are speaking about Applications 11 or OEBS 11.
Bute after OAS 10.1.2  Oracle doesn't support Forms and Reports.
This means that the last version of OAS 10g are purely HTML based
and there is no Forms and reports server.

There are indications that Oracle is going to program EBS Forms
using Jdeveloper - in other words make them HTML and Java
based.

So you san stay with your current Forms and only check if they are compatibel with the
Oracle server and Application Server.

There is also a special utility that is in the installation set and that recompiles old Oracle Forms
(but at least 9i) in the higher versions (for execution).

So it depends how much have you invested in Forms and do you will use them or will
use E Business Suite.
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by:Mark Geerlings
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Some of the terminology with Oracle software is very confusing, especially the term "Application Server".  This has two very-different meanings in Oracle:
1. Oracle has offered a complete ERP suite for many years that was commonly called "Oracle Applications" or "Oracle Apps".  The most recent name for this is: E-Business Suite (EBS).
2. Separate from this big (and very-expensive) product, Oracle introduced the "Oracle Application Server" when they started supporting three-tier (or web-enabled) software instead of the client/server software they used to offer.

Then, the issue of Oracle Forms vs. Java-based software is another issue.  Originally (in the 1980's) Oracle Forms was a host-based product only.  In the 1990's this became a client/server product.  After the internet became popular in the 1990's, Oracle introduced web-enabled Oracle Forms (which need the "Oracle Application Server" to be deployed as a three-tier applicatio, but they continued to support the client/server deployment also through Forms5 and Forms6).  Later, as Java programming became more popular, Oracle introduced JDeveloper as a Java-based tool for building three-tier applications.  This also uses the "Oracle Application Server" to support web-based deployment.

Oracle's big ERP suite (even in the latest version: "Release12") contains a mix of OracleForms (version 10) and JDeveloper screens.  And, the ERP suite also uses the "Oracle Application Server" so it can be deployed as a web-enabled applicaiton.  It is no longer available in the client/server version.

Oracle is migrating away from Oracle Forms, and they plan to discontinue this (great but proprietary) product in the future and leave us with only the (slower, but platform-independent and open-source) Java-based tool called: JDeveloper.
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by:schwertner
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Yes, agree!
Oracle Reports are going to be replaced by BI (Business Intelligence) report with almost the the same  logic and even with good enhancements.
Forms are also slowly replaced by Jdeveloper.
The Good old time is gone!
Good by, my love!
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by:Mark Geerlings
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Yes, Oracle Reports is also going away, but that's no big loss, since Oracle Reports was never a great product.
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by:vkg_26
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Hi Friends,
Thank you for your responses.  Your responses have enlightened me to some extent and at the same time I fear I am confusing you with my terms and my knowledge.
I agree with markgeer that the terminology used by Oracle is some what confusing.

After doign some research work I came to know a few points on my current project and want to share them with you and ask you a few more questions:

1.The project I am currently assigned to is a legacy system.
2. Earlier they developed the entire project using Oracle Portal 3.0.9 and Oracle Discoverer 4.0 versions.
3. Now it seems Oracle has given a desupport notice for the above said technologies and hence we need to plan  for Oracle 10g AS.
4.As per my knowledge in my company we have Oracle9i Server, Oracle10g Server and Oracle Application Server 11.
5. As per my knowledge we have now migrated the data to Oracle 9i, hence Oracle 9i Server works as our database. We are developing forms using Oracle Forms 10g developer Suite. After these forms are developed my manager says that thse forms will be hooked up to Oracle Application Server 11.

Now my questions are as follows:
1. Why is my manager not preferring to use Oracle Portal in Oracle 10g version?
2. Is Oracle 10g version a recent version than Oracle Application Server 11( E-business suite)?
3.Am my correct in my guess work saying that data base will be on Oracle 9i Server?
4. Where do my forms reside (on Oracle 10g server or some where else)?
5.What is ment by hooking up the forms to Oracle Application Server 11 (E-Business Suite)?
6.If at all the forms developed ( by using Oracle 10g forms developer suite) reside on Oracle Application Server 11 (E-business suite--server) then how will these forms interact to the data base on Oracle 9i Server ?
7. What might be my manager idea for not using the Oracle Application Server 11(E-business Suite) and opting for developing forms using Oracle 10g developer suite?

I am also here with forwarding you  attachment which might help you in giving explanation to my problem and clarify my doubts. It would be helpful if you can provide me with inline comments to each of my question asked. Hope you people here will help me out in understanding the business going on here without the knowledge of which I might be lacking some fundamentals even if I complete my work on this project.
Thanks,
vkg_26
Installing-Oracle-Application-Se.pdf
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Mark Geerlings earned 250 total points
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"1. Why is my manager not preferring to use Oracle Portal in Oracle 10g version?"
We don't know, you will have to ask him that.

"2. Is Oracle 10g version a recent version than Oracle Application Server 11( E-business suite)?"
The Oracle Application Server, E-Business Suite and the Oracle database are three separate products.  E-Business Suite includes the the Oracle Application Server, but you can use the Oracle Application Server (without E-Business Suite) to run your custom applications.

"3.Am my correct in my guess work saying that data base will be on Oracle 9i Server?"
Maybe not.  The database version for custom software could be Oracle9, 10 or 11.

"4. Where do my forms reside (on Oracle 10g server or some where else)?"
That depends on who did the installation and on how many servers you have.  They usually get installed on an application server, but they could be installed on the database server.

"5. What is meant by hooking up the forms to Oracle Application Server 11 (E-Business Suite)?"
Oracle Application Server 11 and E-Business Suite are two different products.  (Yes, E-Business Suite includes an Oracle Application Server.)  Oracle Forms10 or Forms11 can only be deployed in an Oracle Application Server.  They cannot be deployed client/server as Oracle Form6 or earlier could be.  (And, as I indicated earlier, there was no Forms7 or Forms8, Oracle jumped the Forms version from Forms6 to Forms10 to get it close to the current database version number.).

"6.If at all the forms developed ( by using Oracle 10g forms developer suite) reside on Oracle Application Server 11 (E-business suite--server) then how will these forms interact to the data base on Oracle 9i Server ?"
Oracle Forms6 can connect to Oracle database versions 8,9, 10 or 11.  I don't have experience with Oracle Forms10 yet, but I would guess that it can connect to database versions 9, 10 or 11.  E-Business Suite is a different (and much more complex) product that includes Oracle Forms and Oracle Application Server 11 (plus lots of other components).

7." What might be my manager idea for not using  ... E-business Suite and opting for developing forms using Oracle 10g developer suite?"
Cost and/or control of the source code.  The Oracle 10g Developer suite is *MUCH* cheaper than E-Business Suite, and that gives your organization complete control over the source code.  With E-Business Suite, Oracle controls the source code.  Yes, they make it available but modifications are strongly discouraged.

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by:schwertner
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As far as I know Oracle Application Server 11 doesn't exist.
Application Server is different thing from E-Business Suite (former Oracle Applications).

Application Server - is middle tier software that ensures link between WEB front end
and Oracle server. In some versions of OAS 10g (up to 10.1.2) it is enriched with some
development and special interfaces (like Portal, Forms/Reports Server). Beginning with 10.1.3
Oracle delivers pure HTML server without the additional tools. There is a standalone Forms/Reports server.

E-Bussines_Suite is set of applications (Financals, Supply Chain, Human Resources, etc.)
It is a fourth tier in the traditional Oracle stack. Based on Oracle Forms Reports it delivers out of box
applications. But Forms and Reports are incorporated in EBS.

If you use Forms/Reports and have legacy system you have two choices:
1. Further do the development using Forms/Reports
2. Do the new development using Java based tool like Jdeveloper or other
and estimate the chances to migrate to whole project to HTM/Java environment
3. To use an application like EBS, Peoplesoft and whatever

Do not mix Forms/Reports developers (10g, 11g) with Application Server (10g) and with E-Busines suite (R11 and R12).
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by:vkg_26
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Hi,
I am confused.
markgeer in his previos post in explanation of point 5 said "Oracle Application Server 11 and E-Business Suite are two different products"   and at the same time schwertner said that "Oracle Application Server 11 doesn't exist". Can any one of you clarify is Oracle Application Server 11 exists or not?
When I googled I found both of them.Can you calrify?
Thanks,
vkg_26.
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by:schwertner
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Based on

http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/ias/htdocs/101310.html
http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/ias/index.html

there is no Oracle Application Server 11.

The releases of OAS are:

Application Server 10gR3 (10.1.3.3) | Application Server 10gR2 (10.1.2.0.2) | Application Server 10g SE One (10.1.2.0.1)

E-Business Suite has releases 11 and 12,
Oracle Server has release up tp 11g.
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by:Mark Geerlings
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I meant to say that "Oracle Application Server and E-Business Suite are two different products".  And both of them have been available in a variety of version numbers at different times, but schwertner is correct about Oracle Application Server.  That has not been released in a version 11 yet.  E-Business Suite 11 has been available for some time, and version 12 is now available, but both of them use Oracle Application Server 10.(something).

I just looked back at your original question where you said "we will upgrade the entire system using Oracle 10g forms (i,e., using Oracle 10g database)" but that is not necessarily true.  Either the database version or the Forms version can be upgraded without the other.  Oracle Forms (any version) is not limited to working only with that same version of the Oracle database software.
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by:schwertner
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There is interesting thing about Oracle Application Server 10g
10.1.2 - has HTML, Oracle Portal, BI (including Forms/Reports Server)
10.1.3 - has only HTML, no Portal, no Forms/Reports Server

Oracle doesn't reveal the future of Forms/Reports server .......
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by:vkg_26
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I personally felt I have to know much more about Oracle releases, versions  and their features. Both the people tried to help me to a great extent with their vast knowledge in this domain. I request them to post some more material or share some more knowledge in this same post About Oracle 10g and its intergeation to Oracle E-Business Suite. Thanks for their help.
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by:Mark Geerlings
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Your grading comment makes it look like you still have some confusion regarding the Oracle products.  You mentioned "E-Business Suite" again in that comment, but I don't think that is applicable to your situation.  Oracle's E-Business Suite is their very expensive full suite of developed applications (similar to the big SAP product suite) that are ready to use to run a mid-size to large business.  This suite of software includes: an Oracle database, Oracle Forms, Oracle Reports, JDeveloper,  the Oracle Application Server and some other components.

But the Oracle Application Server is also avaliable as a separate web server product to run (web-enabled) Oracle Forms and Reports, JDeveloper screens, etc. to support custom applications, like you apparently have.
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by:vkg_26
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Hi,
Yes I still do have some confusion but will try to come out of it and hence in the comment I have asked you people here to post about the various products information and more about Oracle 10g, Oracle E Business Suite, Oracle Application Server.....I will be happy and it will make me enlighten in this area if you can continue this post without any hesitation. I thought I am confusing you guys and asking you more help and being a burden on you.
Thanks a lot.
vkg_26.
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by:Mark Geerlings
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No, you aren't likely to get more comments posted to this question because it is now "closed", and schwertner and I have provided you a lot of information here about the various Oracle products and versions.
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by:vkg_26
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Yes, I completely agree with you. I shall do some home work to improve my understanding and sall get back to you guys if I need anything more by posting a new questions. I owe a lot regarding your help in this aspect.
Thanks,
vkg_26.
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