Long reach ethernet

Posted on 2008-10-08
Medium Priority
Last Modified: 2013-11-09
I need to have an internal network connection that is about 3000 feet from each end.  I try to avoid using LRE, and fber optic is not an option. Does anybody know what is the best way to accomplish this?
Question by:NickQ
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LVL 12

Expert Comment

ID: 22673832
when you say internal.. do you also mean internal within buildings ? or external between buildings ?

if external you could go wireless, a couple of access points/bridges and some grid parabolic or directional antennas would do..

just depends on the speeds you need and where its got to go..
LVL 27

Accepted Solution

pseudocyber earned 400 total points
ID: 22673935
Couple of options:

1.  Convert it to fiber (I know you ruled it out, but best way)
2.  Convert it to serial.
3.  Put in a switch every 300ft/100m
4.  Wireless
LVL 63

Expert Comment

ID: 22674100
Microwave transmitter between the 2 locations with converters. Good for line of site.

I hope this helps !
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Author Comment

ID: 22674110
thanks for quick response,
Internal (because it is within buildings)
Wireless is not an option either.  

Expert Comment

by:Mike McDonald
ID: 22674744
So if wireless is "not an option" and Fiber is "not an option",  what is preventing them from being an option? and would it also mean copper is "not an option"?  and if so, aren't you all out of options?
LVL 32

Assisted Solution

aleghart earned 400 total points
ID: 22675059
Without knowing why fiber is "not an option", a fiber trunk is the best solution.

Single trunk line (more if bandwidth is needed) from gigabit switch to gigabit switch.  Hosts at the far end can connect with 1000BT copper.

Repeating 30+ switches over copper sounds like a nightmare to me.

--Latency.  Repeat 30 times.
--More physical points to power up.  Can't run POE with 1000BT.
--More physical points to fail: power, switch, cable, connectors.  You can't reserve 30 electrical circuits, so you need to follow the run with power, or face shutdown during other maintenance in the area.
--More physical points to tap.  Handy plug-in points for sabotage and spying.

Add that up, and fiber is looking cheaper.
LVL 44

Assisted Solution

Darr247 earned 200 total points
ID: 22675130
There's also Free Space Optics.
e.g. here are Canon's - http://www.canonusa.com/html/industrial_canobeam/canobeam/index.html
Lightpointe and Terescope are a couple other FSO manufacturers, and I'm sure there are more.

3000 feet is right at the edge of 60GHz microwave's range, as suggested by SysExpert. e.g. http://www.rayawave.com/products_60.html - those are supposed to provide 1250bps at 1000m.
LVL 23

Assisted Solution

Mysidia earned 400 total points
ID: 22675946
Use thinnet, or two runs of Thicknet 10Base5  cabling. Each run can be 1640 feet long, so two runs can be a total of 3200 feet long, if you properly terminate both runs, and use a proper bridge/repeater to join the two runs. Downside is this is a pain you have to place a node every 2.5 meters, and poor speed.

Failing fiber or wireless, you're clearly left with copper.
Run category 5e cabling from point A to point B, setup WAN equipment at each end, and a router attached to the WAN equipment at each end of the cable in bridging mode (so it looks like one big lan).

Who knows, you may even be able to just use plain Ethernet, if the end nodes can still hear each other, stretching it beyond the spec,  granted with poorer speed, and lots of late collisions,  due to the extra link latency.

Unfortunately, the appropriate solutions to this problem (a 3000 ft run of multimode fiber, or directional wireless 802.11a) are ruled out by the precondition "they're not an option"

Like asking how to travel from New York to Hawaii, but taking an airplane is not an option, riding a boat is not an option, and want to avoid using a car.
So you're left taking a train to a coastal city, walking to the coast, and swimming to your destination.

You can get there, but it's going to be (a) using old technology,
(b) kludgy,  (c) slower than it should be, and
(d) ultimately more expensive


Assisted Solution

Escapeit earned 200 total points
ID: 22675987
HomePlug could be an option - there you use the existing electricitygrid and maybe you can get a better quality. But you have to be inside same grid (fusebox) to make it work,
LVL 27

Expert Comment

ID: 22677155
How about giving some more details and what limitations you're facing?
LVL 13

Expert Comment

ID: 22677381
To summarize-

Copper wire:
    LRE; limited bandwidth
    Serial; may have distance and bandwidth issues
Fiber: by far the best solution
    WiFi; Line-of-sight and bandwidth issues
    Microwave; Line-of-sight and cost issues (a BridgeWave setup is around $25,000)
    FSO (Free Space Optics; Line-of-sight and cost issues

Why is fiber not an option?
Why are you avoiding LRE?
What are your bandwidth requirements?
Do you have direct line-of-sight?
LVL 44

Expert Comment

ID: 22679573
a 1km+ run of multimode fiber will give only 10/100Mbit speeds; Gigabit's only good up to 550m on multimode; 10Gbps is achievable out to 300m maximum. If you want gigabit bandwidth with fiber at that distance, go with single mode.
LVL 18

Assisted Solution

Johnjces earned 400 total points
ID: 22679726
The only way that I see that you can accomplish what you want to do will be with one pair of telephone wires, 2 wires. This pair of telephone wires needs to run the entrie distance and hopefully you have a pair of telephone wires that you can route (punch down) to where you need it.

To do this you will need a pair of two wire Ethernet transceivers such as Patton CopperLink Ethernet Extenders.


I use them and find them very adequate IF you have good telephone wire runs with few punch downs. The more punch down blocks you have to run through the more the connection degrades, but it is still very usable.


Author Comment

ID: 22681345
thanks so much for all responses.  I am evaluating all the recommended options and will select the best option.  I am trying to push for fiber as we all know it is the best option.  Points will be shared and awarded today.
Thanks so much

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