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Junk mail not going to outlook

Posted on 2008-10-23
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I have Outlook 2007 receiving mail through Exchange 2003.

I recently set the IMF level to 5 and forwarded failed IMF messages to goto junk. Problem is that My outlook is not getting those junk mails. If I log onto OWA I get all the junk mail there, just not on outlook. Now I don't see a problem in that yet, however my boss is having the same issue, and he's worried that he may miss something. I feel this is something on the client side, however It's above my paygrade.

I pop3 into the server through outlook. What am I Missing?
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Question by:ultreya
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by:tenaj-207
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If your using pop3 it only pulls email from the Inbox not the other mailboxes.  You need to switch to imap, or better yet use Exchange.
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by:boabbruce
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You should use exchange with your outlook client in cached mode, this will start to populate the junk mail folder
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by:ultreya
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Forgive me, Both of you have said I should use Exchange. What am I missing here. What do you mean?

[Quote]I have Outlook 2007 receiving mail through Exchange 2003.[/Quote]

Our Mail server is Exchange 2003, The clients are Outlook XP and 07.

What are you referring to?
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by:tenaj-207
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In Outlook 2003

1) Click on Tools then Email Accounts
2) Choose the Add a new e-mail acocunt
3) Choose Microsoft Exchange Server
4) Type in the server name and the username and check the box "Use Cached Exchange Mode"

In Outlook 2007

1) Click Tools then Account Settings
2) Click on the New button
3) Choose Microsoft Exchange, POP3, or IMAP
4) Put in the user information and see if it picks up the email account automatically or check the box for "Manually configure server settings or additional server types" and the steps will be similar to the ones for Outlook 2003

The only foreseeable issue with this is if he has a laptop and works from off site.  Then you'll need to either setup RPC/HTTP to use the exchange setup, or use IMAP.  IMAP may be an alternative until you get RPC/HTTP up and running.  Setting up IMAP is very similar to setting you your pop account and if you're using POP now then IMAP should be working as well.
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by:tenaj-207
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To answer your question directly.  We are referring to the configuration of Outlook with your server.

Side note. Outlook XP should be very similar to 2003 the only difference is you
1) Tools then Accounts
and the rest should be the same.  

Another side note. Outlook XP can't use RPC/HTTP so you may still have to use IMAP or upgrade to a newer version of Outlook for any users that work remotely.

RPC/HTTP is a method of using Outlook 2003 and above to connect to your exchange server remotely.
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by:ultreya
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I have realized I get some of these junk messages, about %10. The rest I do not get through Outlook 2007. I have to assume that the rest of the remote users receive the same amount. I have caching enabled, and still using pop3. However I am not understanding why I only get about %10 percent of junk mail.

I can only speak for myself since it's like pulling teeth to get the other users to tell me what's going on with their side, so please bear with me...

The only junk mail I get is from "Group shield" which is the exchange anti-virus program. For instance if Group shield sends me 100 notifications that a virus has been stopped, I would get maybe 10 in outlook. If I log on to OWA I see them all. Why do I only get some in outlook?

At this time I cannot implement IMAP on the Exchange server. What role does RPC/HTTP have with IMAP or pop3?
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by:tenaj-207
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Questions 1) Why does only some of the spam go to my inbox/junk mail?

So... if Group shield sends you 100 notifications and exchange marks 10 of them as spam.  What you see in OWA is that you have 10 spam messages in your junk mail and the rest in your inbox.

Now if you open up Outlook then you wont see the 10 messages that went to the spam filter, because they were moved to the spam box, however outlook 2003 and 2007 both have a built in spam filter.  So If Outlook deems another 10 of those 90 messages that are left as spam then  you would bet a total of 80 Group Shield messages in your inbox and 10 in your junk mail and another 10 back on the server's junk email.

Question 2) What role does RPC/HTTP have with IMAP or POP3?
RPC/HTTP is a mail delivery protocol, just like POP3 and IMAP.  POP3 and IMAP are standards that is followed by all mail servers, including Exchange servers.  RPC/HTTP is a new protocol for Exchange 2003 and newer servers.  It allows you to have that connection to the server even when you're not in the office.  Previous to this solution companies had to use a VPN connection to their office before they could connect to their servers.  With RPC/HTTP it has eliminated the need for the VPN piece of the problem.

Also on Exchange 2003 they call it RPC/HTTP and in Exchange 2007 they call it Outlook Anywhere.

Now back to the original problem with your junk mail.  I would say that you have two options if you have to stick with POP3.  First, you could turn off the spam filter.  Second, you could have the users manually check their spam filter on the server periodically through OWA.  

Neither of these seem like good solutions so I would work on getting RPC/HTTP working.  However this means upgrading anyone who doesn't have Outlook 2003 or newer.

Here's some links to get you started with RPC/HTTP;
http://www.petri.co.il/configure_rpc_over_https_on_a_single_server.htm
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/833401
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by:ultreya
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Sorry for the delay,
Upgrading is out of the question (cost/expense), I would never get authorization for this. We have been using Pop3 and SMTP without RPC/HTTP for over a year with no issues. This started when I bumped up the spam filter on the exchange server. I realize that both the Exchange server and the outlook clients have filters. I need to be able to explain and resolve the why.

1.Why out of 100 messages originating from the Exchange server through Group Shield only 10 go through to the Outlook client, while all 100 are sent to junk mail (a. Why in junk mail? B. Why not all 100 in the outlook client? these emails originated from the exchange server albeit from group shield)?
2. Why when a user sends an e-mail to another user through OWA does that mail get sent to junk mail (not every time only rare occasions), and may not be received through outlook?
3. Why have we not needed a VPN for our outlook clients to POP3 into the servers for email, only needed POP3 and SMTP through their local ISP SMTP servers? Yet SMTP through OWA goes through our servers with no issues.
4. Why does Outlook not receive some junk mail destined for a client, and can only be seen in OWA?

If the RPC/HTTP is for SMTP I  can understand that it would aid in the transfer of email (port 25), however pop3 (port110) is not, nor has ever caused any issues of connectivity. Most ISPs block port 25 for obvious reasons. I have never seen an ISP block port 110. So even after reading the link you offered, It reads exactly the way you already stated. So what am I missing? How does RPC/HTTP effect POP3 and SMTP? Why would I now have to enable RPC/HTTP when the exchange system has been running without it for over a year now, which of course is not an option since I cannot upgrade clients? I appreciate your time and assistance in this matter.
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by:tenaj-207
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1. Why does Group Shields emails get blocked sometimes
- Exchange must sometimes think that it is spam.  Try adding your public gateway IP address to the Global Accept list, found under the Connection Filtering tab.
2. Why when a user sends an e-mail to another user through OWA does that mail get sent to junk mail.
- I think it's the same as above.  I would add your whole internal subnet to the Global Accept list.
3. Why have we not needed a VPN for our outlook clients to POP3 int the servers for email.
- POP3 doesn't require VPN, a different type of connection required VPNs which doesn't relate to your configuration.
4.  Why doesn't Outlook not receive some junk mail destined for a client, and can only be seen in OWA?
-Because it doesn't download email from the Exchange Junk E-Mail folder.  On an exchange server you have multiple folders, Calendar, contacts, Inbox, Junk E-Mail, Notes, Sent Items.  In Outlook you have the same folders.  Usually with Exchange these folders are synced.  If you use POP3 then the folders are not synced.  If you add a calendar item, or a contact, or a note, on the exchange server it wont show up in Outlook because it doesn't sync.  A perfect example is when you send email from OWA it gets saved in the sent items.  When you send email from Outlook it also gets saved in the folder called sent items.  However sync your folders don't sync you'll only see the sent items in OWA that you sent from OWA and only the sent items from Outlook that you sent from Outlook. The only emails that show up in both OWA and Outlook are the ones that are sent to your Inbox.  Even then if you move something out of the in-box in Outlook, it's still in the in-box in OWA.  Assuming that that makes sense, then you can understand that when you set the exchange server to deliver emails that have an IMF level of 5 to go the the Exchange (or OWA) Junk folder it doesn't sync to your Outlook junk folder.

So the last part of your question is about RPC/HTTP.  RPC/HTTP syncs all the folders so the match up.  What you see in OWA is what you'll see in Outlook.  So the reason you need RPC/HTTP is so that your boss can see the stuff in his junk email without going to the OWA site.

I hope that explains the why.  If not just let me know what details I didn't explain clear enough.

-Tenaj
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by:ultreya
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You have done a more than adequate job in explaining my debacle. I first looked at your response and was sure I would spend most of the time trying to figure out what you were talking about. However you were very clear and concise in your explanation, and I appreciate that.

 I do have one quick follow up before I reward your points&
- Exchange must sometimes think that it is spam How does it know? What filters are used in exchange, determining that something would be junk? And how can I manipulate it or them?

Thank you again.
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tenaj-207 earned 300 total points
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Exchange uses a technology that they developed themselves though monitoring spam from Hotmail accounts, they call it SmartScreen.  It filters the emails by text content.  Unfortunately there are limited tools to manipulate them.  I would refer you to http://www.petri.co.il/configure_imf_in_exchange_2003_sp2.htm, which has a great walk-through of how to configure the settings in the IMF.

Other links about the history of Exchange IMF;
http://www.outlookpower.com/issues/issue200403/00001240001.html
http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/exchange2003/exchange_2003_junk_filter.htm

I'm always happy to help explain how things work.  Thanks for the complement :-).
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Author Closing Comment

by:ultreya
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Tenaj-207 Is truly an "Expert". His responses were detailed, accurate and easy for me to understand.
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