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Is there an install Dual boot cookbook

Posted on 2008-10-24
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Hi,
Here is my current system and my problem:
Dell XPS 600 32 bit Windows XP Pro,  
SP3,  
2GB ram,  
Raptor 160GB 10k RPM HD,
...... C partition On Raptor has OS and 9GB left free
.......D partition on Raptor has data and 29GB left free
Maxtor 250GB 7500 RPM HD,
.......Not being used so basically entire drive free space.
Nvidia 6800 Gt driving 1 monitor  
Nvidia 7800 Gt Driving 2 monitors

Problem:
Because I have a 32 bit system, my particular Dell 600 can only use 2GB of ram.  This was confirmed today by Dell Tech Support.  (Thanks Michael for using a chipset like you did).

I run very heavy graphics programs (PhotoShop, Indesign, Illustrator, etc.)

I want to bump up the Ram significantly.  I do not want to spend $1500 or so (more?) on a new machine.

I want to keep the 32 bit Windows Xp system (dont know why but I am hesitant to delete it).

So, I want to install a 64 bit Vista (I guess I have to use Vista), op system as a dual boot.

Q1 (finally).  Is this hard to do?
Q2 Where can I find out how to do it?
Q3 With only 9GB left on my Raptor 10k, is there a problem installing it to the virtually unused Maxtor 7500 rpm hard drive?
Q4 I have seen Gary Cases (and others) comments about using BootitNG.  How would I do this for this Dual boot system?  BTW... how you doing Gary?  Long time no talk.  Hope all is well.
Q5 I have seen to use 3rd party to install the Dual boot.  If so, Which 3rd party?
Q6. Given I have a Dell, should I buy the Vista from Dell (and probably get gouged?  

Thats all I can think of now, so I am going to post this.  But there may be subsequent questions forthcoming.

Thanks  

Bob
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"... Maxtor 250GB 7500 RPM HD ... Not being used so basically entire drive free space. " ==>  I hope it's being used for BACKUPS of your Raptor :-)    [an image of C: and a copy of D:]

Yes, I'd use Boot-It NG for the boot manager here -- it's much nicer than the built-in Windows manager and most other 3rd party tools.   Allows total isolation of the two (or more) OS's, and is a good image/restore tool as well, so you can easily back up your operating systems & restore them if needed.

For the system & goals you've described, I'd do this:

(a)  Move all of your data to the 250GB drive to free up space on the Raptor -- you'll notice much more difference with the OS running on the Raptor than you will with the data.   If all of your data is in "My Documents" on D:, you can move it all by simply creating a folder on the 250GB drive [perhaps "Bob's Stuff"] and then just moving My Documents to that folder.   Other data can simply be copied between the drives.

(b)  Once you have all of the data off of D:, I'd just delete that partition (be SURE you've got all the data safely "tucked away" elsewhere).

(b)  Download the demo of Boot-It NG [http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm ];  create a bootable CD (or floppy if you have a floppy drive);  boot to Boot-It; and install it [Note:  If you did not delete the D: partition you should do this differently -- let me know if that's the case.].   Basically accept the default options -- allow more than 4 partitions;  let Boot-It install to its own partition; and let Boot-It choose where to install itself.

(c)  At this point, the system should boot to a Boot-It menu with XP as the only choice -- and XP should boot just fine.   You're now ready to add additional operating systems (e.g. Vista).

(d)  Boot to XP and create a folder on your 250GB drive called OSImages.   We're going to save a current image of each of your OS's in this folder for safety.

(e)  Reboot to the Boot-It menu and select Maintenance.   Go to Partition Work.   Highlight your XP partition (probably already highlighted);  then click Image.   Be sure it says "Create Image" and click OK.   You'll now see a "Paste Pending for Image Creation" message --> select HD1 (this is your 250GB drive); and assuming there's only one partition on that disk, click Paste.   Double-click the OSImages folder; and then type a name for the image (must be 8 characters, no spaces --- old DOS restrictions) ... perhaps XP24Oct.   Let that finish.

(f)  You now have an image of XP "tucked away"; and a bunch of free space on the Raptor for installing Vista.    You may want to watch the "Installing Windows Vista to its own Primary Partition" tutorial here:  http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm   Boot-It is a bit "geeky" ... but once you understand the basic concepts it's very simple -- and VERY powerful.

When you're ready to install Vista, let me know & I'll "walk you through" the basic steps with a bit more detail than the video shows.

As for where to buy Vista -- anywhere is fine ... you just need a Vista x64 installation DVD.   Either of these would work fine:
Home Premium:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488
Ultimate:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493
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by:bob733
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Hey Gary... glad you are still around

As to BootitNG, under your advise a couple of years ago, I purchased it and have used it to image my C Drive.  I forgot to mention (oops), I image it to an external 500gig Maxtor onetouch.

I also (once again using your advise), purchased SyncbackPro and I back up the data on my d drive (to the external Maxtor) every day.

And I will certainly start on this (moving to the Internal Maxtor (the D drive stuff) but I need to get one question answered that started this whole mess.

I wanted to increase my Dell XPS 600 from 2 to 3 gig.  I ran the Crucial scan and it said I could.  But because there were 2 gig limitation messages I talked directly to Crucial.  They confirmed I could get another gig (for a total of 3 gig) and XP would see it (with my 32 bit os).

Wrong

XP did not recognize the additional gig.  It still only saw 2 gig.  So I called them up and the second tech rep say nope.... my Dell 600 could not see more than 2 gig and the first crucial tech rep was wrong.   So I called Dell and they said NOPE it could not due to the fact the Nvidia chipset was an earlier one that can not see more than 2 gig.... BUT, they went on to say a 64 bit Vista OS COULD see up to 8 gig.  How is this so?  IF the Nvidia chips set can only see 2 gig, then it should not matter what OS (32 or 64) I am running.  Is that correct?

Anyway, to be fair to the others, you will get the points (and if I could do more than 500, i would).  You have helped me so much in the past and you are the first and only one to pretty much give me a solution that you deserve the points.  

But that being said, before I go forward, what do you think about the Nvidia Chipset limitation both Crucial.com and Dell told me about.  If it can only see 2 gig, then it should not matter what OS is running.  Seeing only 2 gig is seeing only 2 gig.

Bob
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by:bob733
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make that I will start moving the internal Raptor ( D drive stuff) .... instead of the internal Maxtor (d drive stuff)
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Before I wrote my earlier post, I actually started to tell you the same thing Crucial did r.e. the limitation on 32-bit addressing was dependent on the number of system-level addresses that were needed, and that typical systems would "see" between 3 & 3.6GB of memory with 4GB installed.   But before writing that, I checked the Dell documentation ... and sure enough it states clearly (on page 80) that 32-bit OS's are restricted to 2GB [http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps600/en/om/om_en.pdf ]

I presume Crucial refunded (or will refund) your money on that extra 1GB :-)    If you want to buy more memory, I'd buy 2GB modules -- if you're going to an x64 OS you may as well use the highest density modules the system supports.

Not sure how the nVidia chipset works in this regard, but I believe Dell when they say it supports 8GB with an x64 OS.   There may, however, be some setting in the BIOS that needs "tweaked" for this.

Is Boot-It already installed on the Raptor?
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by:bob733
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Crucial is refunding (and paying shipment) with their RMA.  They advised me they will inform Tech Nr1 about this situation.

I say, dont kill him, just wound him.

I am sure it has to do with the addressing archatecture.  32 bits equates to 4 bytes which equates to some big 4 gig number.  Logically, 64 bit equates to 8 bytes and 8 gig of addressable address space.  I agree, I dont know what the tech was talking about with respect to 2 gig maximum.  I am sure a 32 bit architecture can address 3 to 3.5 gig but maby not on this board.  Thank you Michael.

As to Boot-it installed.  Not any more.  It was (as I mentioned I purchased it) but now I use the CD to boot from and do an image.  I am sure I can go get whatever the license is to install it again and boot from the HD, but on day 1, I do not see that as a prerequisite is it?

And you are right on with respect to Page 80 (as always, you do your homework).  I actually had already read this when I came to my conclusion.
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by:bob733
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And if I have been reading correctly. a 64 bit OS can dual boot 64 and 32 bit, but a 32 bit can only boot a 32.

therefore, would we want to even install Bootitng on the 32 bit OS?
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You can dual boot XP and Vista without using a 3rd party boot manager -- the Windows boot manager will allow it; and there are other boot managers that help do this as well.   I prefer Boot-It because it lets you completely isolate the two OS's;  both will be installed on their own "C:" drive;  imaging/restoring is very simple;  and it simply eliminates some of the issues the Windows boot manager can cause [Loss of restore points;  programs that don't behave well if not installed on C:; etc.].

Necessary?  No.   But IMHO the best way to do it -- and if you ever decided to install a 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) OS it would be trivial :-)

It would be helpful in terms of suggesting exactly how to structure your disk to know exactly what the current partition structure is.   Just boot to Boot-It (you can select CANCEL, then OK to get to the main menu without installing it); go to Partition Work; be sure your main drive is selected (it should be the default -- HD0); and post exactly what it shows for the current partitions.

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by:bob733
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Gary,
One thing I am wondering, especially after reading your comment about both OS's can have their own C drive.

I was beginning to think how difficult it would be to build the application layer on the new 64bit OS.  Forexample, I have PhotoShop on my 32 bit C drive.  Given your statement about both OS being on a C drive (on the same Physical drive), could I just do a mass copy of (in this example) Photoshop from the 32 to the 64 bit C drive?

I would imangine this might be impossible to answer.  And that it would be better to install each application onto the 64 bit drive.  But that means the other applications I use, the network and on and on and on.

What did you do when you intalled multiple Os on your machine?

Bob
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You have to install each application on each OS.   Although they all are using their own "C:" drive, these C: drives are each separate partitions --> they're assigned as C: because Boot-It lets you put them each first in the MBR when the associated OS is booted.   A bit of magic :-)

You can, however, (and I do) have a common data partition -- so no matter which OS you boot to your data is the same (including -- if you want -- the My Documents (XP) / Documents (Vista) folder.

Takes a bit of organization, but when you set things up with Boot-It it's VERY nice :-)
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by:bob733
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Gary, here is a picture of my current disks.  I have the Disk 1 internal Raptor 10k (C and D), a Disk 2 internal Maxtor 250 GB 7500 RPM (G and J), and an external Disk 3 Maxtor OneTouch 500GB (Q).

I can move the MyDocuments on D to the other internal drive (Disk2 G).  This would leave D open to install a new operating system.

It would also allow for a common MyDocuments to be used by both Os/s

I would like to do this fairly quickly but did not know when you would be available to assist. I would imagine the timing has to be tight... that is copy, install and boot with out stoping.

Bob


forgary-10-25-2008-12-39-09-PM.png
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We're going out tonight and will be gone most of tomorrow, so the next 3-4 hours is good ... but after that my availability is scarce until Tuesday [I teach a couple of classes on Mon & Wed for the next 8 weeks, so I'm gone those days until late in the evening].   I'll be back late tonight (probably 11-11:30 your time) & will check for any questions then (& if you're still up we can finish then).

What you need to do is fairly straightforward ==> the key first step is to get the data moved off of D: ... copying 50+ GB of data will take a while.   I'd create a folder on G: called "Bob's Stuff" and then relocate My Documents to that folder (as I described before) and also copy anything else that's not stored in My Documents from D: to that drive (either to Bob's Stuff or just to G:, depending on how you've got stuff organized).   Do that now ... and let it finish before we do anything else.

By the way ... WHAT do you have on C: ??   That's a VERY full drive for an XP system drive.

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One other note:   Once you've relocated My Documents to G: and copied all the other data off of D:, there's no particular rush ==> nothing else will be stored on D: if we can't get it all done right away.   But if the copies get done in an hour or so we should be able to finish this in the next few hours.  I'll check my e-mail pretty regularly this afternoon.
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I went to Staples to buy Vista.  There are several flavors starting around 200 bucks.  This seems high (as I belivee it can be found cheaper).  Also, I am not sure what flavor to get (basic, premium super duper or whatever).

Also and most important.

Earlier this week the Dell Tech guy said my chipset Nvidia could not handle more than 2 gb on a 32 bit system.  Then he said Vista could handle up to 8 gig.  Ok that is fair.  But if my particular chipset cannot handle more than 2 gig on 32 bit os, how can it handle more than 2 gig on a 64 bit os?

I need to get that resolved with Dell tonight based on my particular system specs that they have on the DB
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Either of these would work fine:
Home Premium:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488
Ultimate:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493

Ultimate's nice, but realistically there's nothing you need beyond what's in Home Premium.   The DreamScape backgrounds are nice (my wife likes them on the system I built for her) ... but probably not worth the price difference.

I'm also not sure how the chipset "behaves" r.e. the 2GB vs 8GB for 32 vs 64 bit OS's ... but I believe the Dell documentation --> the only issue might be getting the BIOS set correctly for it.   Wouldn't hurt to have a chat with Dell (as you're planning).

Getting ready to take off ... back in about 5 hours.   I'll also be on for a couple hours early tomorrow afternoon -- but after that I'll be scarce until Tuesday.

... Meanwhile --> get your D: drive cleaned off so you can delete that partition :-)
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by:bob733
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Ok, after an hour and a half on the phone, here is where I am at:

The physical 3 gigs are on the system (4 stick..... 512  1gb    512    1gb) is in the system.  BIOS recognizes it as 3 gig.  However, My Computer, Properties says there is only 2 gig..  I ran Everest pro and it recognizes the 4 memory sticks (512,   1 gig,   512,   1 gig), but it tells me OS is only reporting 2 gig.

I have been doing some reading on the 3 gig switch, but it seems as if this only applies to a 32 bit os (XP) that has 4 gig of physical memory.  I do not know what it will do with only 3 gig of physical memory.

Dell is stumped why BIOS know I have 3 gig but XP doesn't see but 2 gig.

They told me I have to call Dell On Call (which is there (probable pay for service department).  I have been paying for dell support for some time and this support now (in my opinion) sucks.
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The /3GB switch in XP has nothing to do with how much memory a system "sees."   It only impacts the size of the virtual space that's available to individual processes (which is 2GB without that switch).    For most folks there's no reason to use that switch.

Since you already have >2GB installed, it's simple to test whether or not an x64 bit OS "sees" more than 2GB --> you just have to install either XP x64 or Vista x64.   I'd order a copy of Vista x64 (Home Premium for $99.99 is a good choice) and get the system ready for it by doing what I suggested above [Clearing out the D: drive so you can delete the partition].

When you're ready to set things up for multiple boot -- i.e. ready to delete D:, install Boot-It, and prepare the boot item for Vista -- let me know and I'll "walk you through" it.   Then when you get a copy of Vista it'll just take 30-45 minutes to do the install.

Note:  If you know someone with a Vista x64 DVD you can install it without a CD key and it'll work fine for a month ... that would let you test it without buying it.   But it's actually a reasonable OS -- since SP1 it's been quite stable [I use Vista Ultimate as my primary OS these days].
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by:bob733
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I ran SyncbackPro (purchased a year ago per your suggestion BTW, thank you Gary), anyway, I ran SyncbackPro and copied D: to G:

Windows Explored both drives and it looks like I got it all.  So the first part is done.  When I actuall get the Vista install, I can run it again to capture changes made between now and when I get the disk.

I recently purchase machines for both my boys (low end, but they have Vista).
1.  Have to see if it came with OS disk (I cant remember eventhough it has only been a couple of months....age does this to you).
2.  Even if I find the disk, not sure if it is 32/64 or just 32.  I know that in the store it really doesnt say.

but that is where I am now...looking for a 64 bit Vista because I just dont want to purchase and find it is no good.

I am still bummed out that BIOS sees 3gig but XP does not

Bob
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Well, I just located one of the kid's install disk  (32 bit Sp1 is on the cd)

Bummer again
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Did you move My Documents to G: as well?   If nothing is "pointing" to D:, then it shouldn't get anything else written to it.   One simple way to confirm that before you delete the partition:  Delete everything that you just copied to G:  (all the folders that SyncBack just backed up) -- and then see if anything else gets written to D: as you use the system.

If you're SURE you've got everything off of it, you could simply use Disk Management to delete the partition now.

In any event, once you get to that point, let me know and we'll get everything ready so you can easily install Vista when you either find an x64 install disk or bite the bullet and buy one :-)
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Do I need the full blown install or could I go with an upgrade, seeing how I have XP Pro on the C Drive.  I believe I remember reading I might have to delete the XP and reformat.
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This is an ISO download for the BlueWhite 64-bit live Linux ISO DVD.   If you download it, then burn a DVD from it; and then boot to the DVD, look and see how much memory it sees => if it sees all 3GB then it's indeed true that an x64 OS sees more than 2GB :-)

Note -- this is a large download (about 1.8GB).

http://mirror.inode.at/data/bluewhite64/bluewhite64-12.1-iso/Bluewhite64-12.1-KDE3-LiveDVD-R1.iso
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An upgrade DVD will work fine -- and in fact you can do a clean install from the upgrade DVD :-)
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My synbackpro parms were copy D; to G:   as simple as that  see report.

I did not do any change of "pointing"  I just copied everything from D: to G:

and purchasing for 239 from best buy compared to 99 bucks from egghead is a no brainer, but I think it is a bummer to have to wait
0garysyncbackpro10-26-2008-6-13-.png
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Where do you have My Documents stored?

Right-click on My Documents; select Properties; and see where it's currently assigned.   If it's on C:, you should move it to G:  (let it move all the current data when asked).

... off to bed => fell asleep in recliner and just woke up a bit ago, but I need some more beauty sleep :-)   (Back in a few hours)
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by:bob733
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downloading that file and will burn to a dvd.  that seems like an easier test.  Besides it is early here in Florida and Office Depot etc are not open.... ahhhhh WallMart...  Sam never sleeps!  But for now, I think I would like to try the ISO version

As to the upgrade, what and how does it do it (given the XP os is on C: and we are trying to install Vista64 on another partition).  And anohter thing, I could not see on the boxes anything about it being 64bit.  

Using bootit (an btw i am using the cd version (as opposed to the installed on the HD version),
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this has always confused me.  When you said my documents, i thought you meant a directory I have on the d drive called "my documents on d"  It is here where I save all my appliation data files, pictures etc.

If you mean the C drive Documents and Settings, I did not copy that, but now I will add it to the other copy of D to G so that both are copied.

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Nothing is easy.  I downloaded the Bluuwhite64 live and burned the iso to a dvd.

Booted system and only my CD drive is bootable!  going into F2 bios is no help as there is no option for the DVD to be bootable.

nothing is easy
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If you set the CD drive as the first thing in the boot order (before the hard drive), see if it will then boot from the DVD drive => it may check both optical drives before moving on to the hard drive.

If you truly can't boot from the DVD, you have a big problem here -- the Vista installation media is a DVD :-)    But I'm confident there IS a setting that will boot from the DVD.

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I think it has something else because I just loaded Illustrator and it is a DVD.
I looked at the dvd and it had a couple of directories on it.  For some reason it did not look like a bootable Dvd.

it had two directories on it":
Bluewhit64
boot

So, when i downloaded it from that url, i dont know if it was the correct file to burn an iso onto a dvd



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ah   i read the Readme file on the dvd

You can start the LiveCD from DOS prompt. Boot your DOS and type:

  X:
  CD \BOOT\DOS
  Bluewhit.bat

(replace X: by your CDROM drive letter)


If you do not have DOS installed, or it is not able to access your CD,
try to boot from a diskette. You can use FreeDos from http://www.freedos.org
which has already a CD drivers included
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well, i have expended too much time trying to get this lunix iso to work.
I just checked bios again and it tole me I had 64 bit capibility (em64t) so I am going to just bite the bullet and get Vista.  But before I do, I really need a couple of questions answered.

1. On the c drive, I copied (via syncbackpro) My Documents to the G drive My Documents.  Q.  How do you get OS to put anything on the G:\My Documents (instead of C:\My Documents)?  Shud I have just done a cut My Documents (from C) and pasted it to G?

2.  If I get the Vista, did you say I could get the Upgrade?  Also, How will I know it it the 64 bit version?  It does not say so on the box.  Will I be able to load it into the now (pretty much) empty D drive (without wiping out Windows XP on the C drive)?

4.  Can I use BootitNG with a bootable CD (rather than having it installed)?

5.  And this is most important.  Given that it doesn't appear a dvd will boot from the DVD drive, can i go into windows explorer and click on setup.exe (like i have done in the past for applications).  if not, you are dead right (again).  I have a bigger problem.


I am willing to spend the money (hopefully only $99 for a Vista Premium Upgrade), but would feel comfortable if I knew the answers to thes questions.
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I resolved Item 5 (booting from the DVD).

It seems as if PATA drives do not sequence through available drives looking for boot media.

If i disconnect Pata 1, then Pata 2 (the DVD) will boot from the DVD.  If Pata 1 is connected, it will not go to Pata 2 (the DVD) to boot.   End of story on that one.

So, when I get Visat DVD, I unplug the CD (Pata 1).

Gary, I still need your advise on questions 1 thru 4 though
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"...  I copied (via syncbackpro) My Documents to the G drive My Documents.  Q.  How do you get OS to put anything on the G:\My Documents (instead of C:\My Documents)?  Shud I have just done a cut My Documents (from C) and pasted it to G? " ==>  Wrong way.  Just right-click on My Documents; select Properties; click on Move ... and "point" to the folder you want it on (on G:).   Tell it to move all the current items (it will ask) -- and you're done.   From then on everything that uses "My Documents" will be stored in the new location.

"... did you say I could get the Upgrade?  Also, How will I know it it the 64 bit version?  It does not say so on the box."  ==>  Yes, you can use an upgrade, but it does seem to be hard to find an x64 upgrade version.   An OEM version will also work ... although technically you should be making some hardware change to be legal r.e. the license (but it will work with no problem -- and you ARE essentially rebuilding your system).   Either of these will work fine:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493

"... Can I use BootitNG with a bootable CD (rather than having it installed)? " ==> No.  Not as a boot manager.

"... can i go into windows explorer and click on setup.exe (like i have done in the past for applications) " ==>  No.  You need to boot from the DVD  [fortunately you've already resolved this :-) ]

You should (a)  Order Vista; and (b)  get the system "prepped" for the install ... so you can do it easily once the Vista DVD arrives.   Basically you need to (1) delete the D: partition;  (2)  install Boot-It;  (c)  resize your current XP partition if desired;  (d)  create a partition for Vista;  (e)  create your Boot-It boot items.   You'll then be ready to easily install Vista and have a nice boot menu to choose between the OS's.
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My Documents moved to D (but only had a couple of things on it as I was saving documents (ie., from word, excel etc) on D:\ My Documents_On_d

So, I guess this one is done, as you cannot move the user profiles

Bob
On to the next step which is getting a 64 bit Vista
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"... My Documents moved to D ..." ==> You mean G: ... right?   Remember the goal is to delete the D: partition (the 2nd partition on the Raptor).
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Ok here is the new assignments (see pictures).  

But to recap:

C will have XP32 and applications (Word, Excel, Photoshop etc).

D (or what ever you call it, will have Vista64 and Applications (that I will have to reinstall onto this new partition (Word, Excel Photoshop etc.)

G will have the original C: My Documents.  It will also have the original  document directory stored on the old D partition.

J  Will have images of XP and Vista

Windows Vista 64 will arrive from Egghead tomorrow.

Bob
0garynewdiskassignment-10-27-200.png
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I would do the following:

(1)  Uninstall Boot-It  (there's an Uninstall option in Maintenance Mode -- I think it's on the drop-down menu at the top)

(2)  Delete the 2nd partition (first the volume, then the partition) --> you want Disk 0 to show the C: drive and then all unallocated space.  (No extended partitions).

(3)  Now Install Boot-It again => this should result in the 8MB BootIT partition being at the end of the disk (all the way to the right).

(4)  Leave the disk like that until I get back late tonight --> post a screen shot to confirm how you're got it set up.

... gotta go => back about 10:30 your time.
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In the process of all this, all of a sudden my External 500 gig Maxtor went south.  here is a picture of itL  Shud I open this up as a new quetion?


0-maxtor-bad10-27-2008-1-59-08-P.png
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NO !!   Don't touch it --- I've got to go NOW (running late) ... but shut down; unplug the external drive; and do everything else I told you.   We'll look at it tonight ... this is probably VERY simple to resolve (has to do with it being connected while you installed/uninstalled Boot-It).
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Not to worry ole buddy... problem fixed with OOLLM

Also, did the deleting volume, partition and uninstall/re install of bootit.

Vista64 arriving Tuesday from The Egg

Here is the new picture:
0forgary10-27-2008-3-02-08-PM.png
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The "M" in your "OOLLM" issue may have been the simple act of re-installing Boot-It :-)   If the drive was connected when Boot-It was originally installed, it may have created an EMBR on the drive --> if so, it could make the drive unuseable without Boot-It involved in the boot process.   Not sure if that's what happened -- but a reasonable chance.   There's an easy way to test for that -- and to prevent it from happening again :-)   Next time you're online we'll check it.

The Raptor looks good as currently configured.   DON'T DO ANYTHING TO IT !!   One thing to consider before you install Vista:   You're now got about 56GB allocated to XP (with 9GB free) and 83GB available for Vista.   Is that how you want to keep the allocation?  ... or do you want to resize XP to have a bit more free space before installing Vista?   You could do a ~ 65/75GB split  (65GB for XP; rest for Vista) and gain ~9GB more space in the XP partition.    I'm surprised the XP partition is using that much space, by the way => that's a LOT for just the OS and programs.

When you're ready, I'll "walk you through" setting up the Raptor to install Vista "cleanly".
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By the time the FedEx gets here and I am free, it will probably be this afternoon sometime.

Should be fun!

Bob
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Ok... Vista is here and I am ready to copy captain... what is first?
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Okay, I'm here too.   First question:  Do you want to bump up XP's space a bit?   The current size SHOULD be way more than enough -- but you've got it pretty full, so you might want to resize it to 65GB before we create the Vista partition.   Just takes a minute to do that -- just let me know if you want to do that first.
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No, because I will probably be migrating big programs like PhotoShop, Indesign, Illustrator, (and maby Office) to Vista which will free up space.  Additionally, I should be able to back in and give it more space with PartitionMagic 8.0 (or BootitNG if I am going to have to use it to manage partition from now on).
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As to booting with the DVD problem, I am tempted to Disable the CD and see if it goes to the DVD
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You can give it more space later -- but only after a lengthy resize and then "slide" of the Vista partition.   Right now (with all the free space) it's a VERY quick function (a few seconds) ... later it would take a couple hours.

But I agree it's large enough ... especially if you migrate off of it.

I assume you have a computer to use for this dialogue different than the one you're working on -- right?   Just curious how many steps I need to detail all at once :-)
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Yes, I have another computer.  And another.  And another.  And another, and finally, another.  When you have 2 boys, and they have friends (who are always over here at the house. you gotta have lots of fire power).  And this does not even include the Wii, the XBOX360 and other "stuff"

So, yes, i have another computer.  I will go fire it up now next to this one, but go ahead with the instructions.

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I am now on the second computer
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Boot to Boot-It's Maintenance mode. Then go to Partition Work. Be sure it's showing the Raptor as HD0 (it should be).

There should be 3 partitions shown: the large 1st partition (that's where XP is); a large block of unallocated space; and then a small 8GB partition at the end. As long as that's EXACTLY what you see, highlight the unallocated space; then click on Create. Name it WinVista, select option 7 from the drop-down menu for File System, and leave the MB at the default (all of the available space). Then click OK. That will be very quick. Now, before you exit Partition Work, WRITE DOWN the sizes of the XP and the Vista partitions --> you'll need to refer to these sizes later.

Now click Close on Partition Work; and click on Settings. If the Limit Primaries box is checked, uncheck it. Note that doing this lets Boot-It do some neat "magic" --> but it also means you must NOT use Windows Disk Management (or any other tool) to make any changes to your partition structure ... just use Boot-It. [You can still use Disk Management to assign/change drive letters with no problem]

Now exit Settings and click on Boot Edit. Click Add. In the Identity block type "Windows Vista". In the Boot dropdown, select the WinVista partition. On the right side, it will show the 4 MBR entries for each of your disks. For HD0 what you want is the WinVista partition in entry 0, and nothing else to be "visible". If that's not the case, highlight anything else that's visible and click Clear. If WinVista isn't in slot 0, highlight it and click Move Up to put it there.

When you've done all that, click OK.

Now click Resume; then select the Windows Vista boot item; and click on Boot. It will tell you the partition's not bootable and ask if you want to boot from floppy. Click No.

Now you're ready to install Vista ==> don't do ANYTHING yet :-)

When you've done all this, post back. If ANYTHING doesn't work just like I described, stop and let me know what the difference is.


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done and all is perfect
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Okay. Wife just reminded me I have a 2:00 dental appt (I'd forgotten) ... so I have to leave in 5 minutes.

Next step is to boot to the Vista DVD (you may need to disconnect your CD to get it to boot, per your earlier comments). When it gets to the point where it shows your disk partitions, be SURE you select the correct partition (it will show the other partitions as unallocated space). The size info you wrote down earlier will make it easy to be sure you're using the right one -- it should show as C: with a size about equal to what you wrote down from Boot-It (size info often varies a bit, based on just how various programs report it -- but you'll easily be able to tell it's correct).

Then just let Vista install. When it gets done, and you can boot to Vista, you'll notice that Boot-it has been "wiped out" by Vista (the system will just boot directly to Vista). That's NORMAL. Just boot to the Boot-It CD and select "Re-Activate Boot-It" (it will recognize what's happened) -- when that's done you'll have a nice boot menu that lets you boot to either XP or Vista. There are a couple of other tweaks you should do to get everything set up nice -- but I'll detail those when I get back. By that time you should be dual booting to XP and Vista with no problem :-)
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To reboot now (to install Vista), just use Ctrl-Alt-Del (if the DVD's already set to boot) or just turn the system off (make the changes to the CD/DVD) and then turn it on.
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u de man..... will do   i wonder if just disabling the cd will force it to the dvd... going to try that first
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Heading out the door - I'll be back in 2-3 hours and will check back in then.
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done... no problems  works like a champ..  will talk with you when you get back
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looks like my external 500 gig maxtor is mia again
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Now, it seems as if a huge problem has surfaced.

I reactivated Bootit, and rebooted.  But when I select Window Vista, it says this is not bootable.

And as I mentioned, the external drive is no longer accessable to me.

I think both problems can be over come, but it is strange.
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Does XP boot okay from the Boot-It menu?

In any event, post the following:

(1)  The EXACT details from the Partition Work screen for each of your hard drives (HD 0, HD 1, etc.)

(2)  For each disk note whether or not the "Undo EMBR" choice is highlighted in Partition Work (Don't click on it -- just note whether or not it's there).   Note that IF this is highlighted for the external drive, that's most likely the problem with it.

(3)  Are you SURE you picked the right partition for Vista to install to?   That's why I had you check the size ... it won't "look" like the first partition on the disk -- but it should be been "C:" and had the right size.   If XP isn't booting (per my question above) you probably picked the wrong partition & wiped out XP.
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XP can still boot from Bootit.   I am positive I picked the right partition.  As you said in your instructions, it was easy to see which was correct due to the size  50 plus gigs as opposed to the larger 80 plus gigs i wanted vista to go on.  Additionaly, it appeard to be working at first (booting to vista and xp via bootit.)  something i probably did after mucked up the works.  

I do notice that is see two bootit messages appear on the screen at boot time.  And i noticed that as i went through the HD drives, there appeared to be Two bootit out there.  (one could be left over from the old days when I had the wd250 active as my main drive (before I purchased the Raptor (as once again due to you excellent advise a long time ago... remember eh).  Anyway, the two messages that flash (before the multi boot screen) are:

bootit 2.01
bootit 2.04

then multi boot screen appears:

Options on the Bootit screen
Windows XP
Dell Utility
Windows Vista (and this one wont boot)

Maintenance Results, Partition work:
HD0
New Raptor_c_x-o partition     58000 mb hpfs/ntfs
winvista                 partition  E 85079 mb hpfs/ntfs
mbr entry 1            partition  E 85077 mb hpfs/ntfs  
bootit embrm         partition              8 mb bootit embrm
Undo embr greyed out for all the above entries in hd0

Gary.  note the difference (above) 85079 and 85077... that was not a typo)

HD1
DellUtility-0            partition       2047  mb  Dell Utility
wd250_Data_fo-1 Partition     999998mb  Hpfs/ntfs
mbr  entry2           Partition     136372mb  Extended
--------                   volume           1130 mb free space
bootit                    volume       70990 mb   hpfs/ntfs
-------                     volume       64252 mb  free space
undo embr is highlighted for all the above entries in hd1

hd2
OneTouch4-0        partition    476938 mb  hpfs/ntfs
undo embr is highlighted for the above entry in hd2


cd2
nothing there

That is it....


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Whoa !!   Somehow you've got two copies of Boot-It installed (you're probably right r.e. one was installed long ago).   Not sure just how to back out of this -- and I'm going to be gone all day (leaving in ~ 10-15 minutes and won't be home until ~9:45 CST.

I'd leave it along until I get back ... or tomorrow if that's too late for you.   There IS one thing you can do that should fix the external drive:   Boot to Partition Work and select HD2 (the external drive).   Click on "Undo EMBR".   After that's done, shut down the system and disconnect the external drive.   It should now work fine -- you can try it on another system or you can boot to XP and plug it in.

It's fine to leave external drives connected (I have several) ... but they should NOT be connected when you (a) install Boot-It without limiting primaries or (b) when you switch from "Limit Primaries" to not limiting them.   At that instant, Boot-It creates EMBR's on all connected disks (A flaw in my opinion -- I think it should only do that on the system drive unless an EMBR is actually needed for the partitions and/or boot entry MBR's you want to create).

Somehow Boot-It has been "confused" -- you'll need to do some CAREFUL "surgery" to get this resolved without destroying your OS's.   I can detail what I'd do, but I don't have time right now.   More later tonight.   I'm confident, however, that it can be resolved without any problem :-)

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ouch,
If at all possible, I would like to try to clean this up tonight.

 My son is diving for his high school tomorrow in Districts and I want to be there.  Possibly in the aft would be ok but proud Daddy (Bobby is a Freshman with 7 weeks of experience, but already Nr 1 diver for his school, and has two 1st place finishes and two 2nd place finishes in four meets.  If it sounds like I am bragging I am but I am here to tell you, he will be a Florida All State within two years, and (if they have it) All American in his Senior year.  Ok, Ok stop gagging!.  I am done bragging.  But I would like to accomplish this by tonight, so I will keep the system on.

BTW, in XP, I can now see the onetouch (external HD)

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As I can see and access the external drive in XP, i decided not to anything until you got back
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Say Gary,
while I was waiting for you to return, I was working with my voice activation software, Dragon naturally speaking version 10.
I am literally talking as fast as I can into the microphone and the Dragon is dictating it into the computer.

For someone like you, that responds to so many requests for help, I would imagine that the Dragon can help you immensely.

I have literally dictated us assess as I could talk, and the Dragon has practically transcribed my voice into digital format but hardly any mistakes!

If you like, give me a call and I will fill you in on some of the finer things about the Dragon.

You should know, and I do not make one correction to anything I just dictated!

Anyway I hope I can stay awake so that when you return I can try to make this thing work tonight.
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Nope, I am not going to make it... too tired... and a long day tomorrow.

Possibly you can outline the steps and when I get up tomorrow (4:30 am to take bobby to School so they can travel to the District meet), I can come back and attempt to follow your instructions.

But, I would surmise you are tired also, so possibly if you are (tired), we can work on this tomorrow.l

As always,

thanks

And you really do have to check out the Dragon... you can not beat it!

Bob
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Got home late -- just a few minutes ago.   But I'll be here most of the day tomorrow and can help get this resolved tomorrow evening.

The key problem right now is to figure out just how you've managed to get the EMBR "messed up" ==> it is clearly showing two partitions occupying the same space (your Raptor does not have that much space !!).   It would seem that Boot-It made a mistake with its re-activation.   But we need to be careful in correcting it so you don't lose anything (like your complete XP system).

Basically what I plan on doing can be outlined as follows ...

=>  look carefully at the boot items in Boot Edit to see exactly how the MBR's are being set for each boot item.
=>  try changing the setting for the Vista item to see if the "other" EMBR entry is actually pointing to the correct install
=>  IMAGE the XP system -- and possibly (if the "other" item in fact boots) the Vista install as well ... storing the images on your external drive.
=>  Undo the EMBR in both the "old" 250GB drive and your external drive.
=>  If the Vista system booted from the "other" partition, we'll delete all of the Raptor partitions (except Boot-It's) and then restore XP & Vista from the images.   We MAY be able to just delete the two incorrect partitions and skip the XP restore ... but this needs some experimentation.

The basic steps won't take long ... but the image/restore operations will take quite a while (especially for your very large XP partition.

I may give you a buzz to chat about Dragon ... although I am a VERY good typist (80+ wpm), so it's not much of a burden.
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4:30 am.  Up to take bobby to school.  This does not sound like it is going to be a fun day with BootIt

I too am a very fast typest.  I can type the Sentence "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dogs back 1234567890 times" fast than 100 wpm (we use to race the old teletype machines that read that ticker tape through in a loop to keep the communications circuits open? ha ha
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FYI  I started an image of the xp partition before i left for school (4:55am)

When that gets done, I will image the winvista partition
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Well, curve ball strike nr 1
Got home from dropping Bobby at school 6am, only to find a disk error or full msg about the external drive I am pasting to.  I restarted IMG but think that was stupid as it may very well fail the second time.  Wasnt sure what i could run (chkdsk, norton or what).
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strike 2  failed again  believe i shud run  chkdsk or something
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we are breaking the world record for replies in a single thread.
I unchecked embr for the external
Downloaded and installed trybuy version of Cleanup Utilties 2008
Ran their check disk for errors function.  It found no errors
Now running their defrag and will probably run for quite some time (while I am gone).
Will still have to see if I can get a image to work (without getting the write error or disk is full message).
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Have to go to the District meet for Bobby now.  Wish me luck.  Back in a few hours.  You can reach me on my cell if need be.
thanks
Bob
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You do NOT want to be adding additional "stuff" (e.g. Cleanup Utilities) and doing more things to the partition.   Nor do you need to image the Vista partition at all UNLESS we can confirm that it boots okay.

Reply to this when you get home & have time to work on this.
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Home, but will have to go out for 10 minutes (in 10 minutes).
I tried twice to image the XP partition on to my external 500gig hd.  It failed twice with a write or disk full error.  There was 100 gig of free space, so I had to assume (I know, I know Ass u me), it was a disk error.

I ran chkdsk (not parameters).  No errors

So I downlosd the utility program try buy and ran a disk check on that esternal.  No  errors.  I then defraged it and  that is where I am now.

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One thing is strange.  I boot with bootit and specify the xp partition.  It then comes up with the standard windows dual boot menu (Vista or earlier OS).

When I depress earlier os,  xp comes up.

With bootit, i should not get a subsequent windows dual boot menu should I
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No -- somewhere along the way you did something wrong :-)
It sounds like you didn't clear the XP partition from the Vista MBR before you installed Vista.

More when we're both here --> I've got to run out for ~ 30 minutes.
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By the way ... does your system have a floppy drive?
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Home now and yes to the floppy.  I just didnt have the heart to not have one
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Good r.e. the floppy.

Put a blank floppy in the drive;  boot to Boot-It; go to Partition Work;  select HD-0; then press F12 and wait until the floppy activity stops.   Then select HD 1 and press F12 (& wait).   Now exit Partition Work and go to Boot Edit.   Select each of the boot items (I think you have two -- XP and Vista) one-at-a-time and click Edit.  Then press F12 for each of those (& wait).

Now exit Boot Edit and click Resume (so your boot menu is displayed).   Press F12 one more time (& wait).

The floppy will now have a bunch of .PCX files on it.   You can't attach those here -- but you can either (a) compress them all into a .ZIP archive and attach it;  or (b) use a free program like Irfanview to convert them to .JPEG's (which you can attach);  or (c) just e-mail them to my private e-mail account (address in profile).   Do whichever is easier for you -- and then we'll continue [These will be very useful, as I'll know EXACTLY what each of the key screens shows in Boot-It].


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what about the dell utility on hd1
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If it's a boot item (on your boot menu) then include the Boot Edit screen for it.   Otherwise, just do what I said above --- I want the Edit screens for each of the boot items and the partition work display for each of your hard disks.
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By the way Gary, I accidentally clicked on boot Vista. When I did, I got a message saying that the winload.exe file was corrupt., and we start from scratch basically was instructing me to reinsert the installation CD and repair.

I guess if you weren't around, I probably would try that. Or else,  I might just go back in and scratch the Vista partition, then I would uninstall booted and basically start out from the very beginning.

In effect I would have a working XP OS on the C Dr. I would have all my documents on the other internal hard drive (G.)

I don't think that old booted application is helping things.

By the way I am now using Dragon to transcribe everything I'm saying. It sure beats the heck out of typing!
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I sent you the pictures to your e-mail however I don't know really what it is going to do for you, because it's simply a picture of what I had already given you in previous messages.
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I just figured out what you wanted with the edit screens   they are coming in a couple of minutes
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Okay, I've got all the screens & converted them to .jpeg's (so they're easier to view).

You should enter your registration code in Boot-It (Utilities - Register) so you'll have Image Sets and Boot Now support.

...

The Raptor is clearly messed up.   Try this:  Go into Boot Edit and select the Vista boot item.  Change the "Boot" selection from WinVista to MBR Entry 1.

Then exit boot edit; click on Resume; and try to boot to Vista [Select Vista and click on Boot].   By the way, you ARE selecting Boot and NOT the "Direct Boot" choice -- right??  [You NEVER want to use Direct Boot]




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ok wait one please and no, I never use the Direct boot system
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edited the winvista selection....,changed boot to mbr1
got out and resumed.... selected vista and got:
bootmgr is missing   press ctrl alt del to restart
i did this (ctrl alt del)
got bootit dual boot menu again
selected vista and hit enter
got bootmgr missing msg again

this is hammered
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I don't know what you did wrong or where -- but clearly SOMETHING is messed up big time.

Do this:

Go to Partition Work for HD 1 and select Undo EMBR.

Then repeat that for HD 2 (I assume that's your external drive).

Now shut down.  Unplug the external drive; and unplug the data cable from the 2nd drive (the 250GB drive).

Now boot back to Boot-It; go to Partition Work; and confirm that you only see one drive [HD 0].   Then close Partition Work; select Resume; and boot to XP.  
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I would almost say, let us cut our losses and redo everything:
Disconnect the maxtor external
Delete the vista partition'
delet the bootit partition
delete the stale bootit on the other drive
disconnect the cd drive
reinstall bootit to the end of the unallocatged space
reinstall vista (have to figure out again how to get it to the rest of the unallocated portion of the c drive
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oops  ur msg came before i sent mine to you but i will do as you say
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did as you asked
booted
maintenance
hd0  
new raptor c x o partition 58000 mb htfs/ntfs  
winvista              partition e 85079 mb htfs/ntfs
mbr entry 1         partition e 85077 mb htfs/ntfs   (notice the different size)
boot embrm        partition    8 mb  bootit embrm

hd1
--------------          partition 917501 mb  free space
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closed partition work and boot to xp
get window dual boot msg screen
to boot to vista or earlier os

if i select earleir i get xp
if i dont do anything, it defausts to vista and it get the winload.exe is corrupt mst and to put back int the vista install and repair
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my question is....how did it see hd1 if it was unplugged
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Do you have an unallocated 1TB drive in that system? !!

Assuming you do NOT, then you clearly shouldn't see an HD 1 in Partition Work !!

Just to confirm:  You should only have ONE drive currently connected in the system -- is that right??
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well, up at 4:30 and going all day, i am done
too tired to wait and I know you are busy

I think we have gone past the point of "what I did wrong" and I am welling to just eat crow, and start new

So, when I wake up tomorrow, I will go ahead and delet the space on the Raptor and try again.

I saw on my Partition Magic, they have a load OS option.  The application is graphical and a lot easier to use (than BootIt), even though it may not be as powerful.

I have the 8 gig sitting here and I am going to install it after this system gets set up for a dual boot.

If you think there is a chance to pull this out quickly, I would much rather follow your advise.  But with your scehdule, and my schedule, possibly the timing for you to help me may not be right (for this instance0.

Please let me know.  I am going to bed, and tomorrow, come hell or high water, I will get a dual boot system and install my new 8 gig.

Gary, Your are the best of the best.  

Bob
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by:bob733
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oops i see you just responded (and I did not see it before my post).
I do not have a 1 tb hd installed.

I do not know where it is getting hd1 from
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by:bob733
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And My Computer/manage/Disk management only shows disk 0 with new raptor 56 gig, 83 gig unallocated and 8 mg for bootit at the end
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by:garycase
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Boot-It IS a bit "geeky" ==> it's really very simple, but one important key is you must NOT use other partition management utilities.   If you've "poked around" with Partition Magic (aka Partition Tragic) that may have interfered with Boot-It's EMBR.   Or the other utility you messed around with could have done something (Cleanup Utilties 2008).

I was going to have you try a couple of things from within XP, but at this point (since you're willing to just wipe everything out and start over) you may want to just do this:

Go to Boot Edit and Delete ALL of the boot items.

Now go to Partition Work and see if HD 0 has the Undo EMBR option enabled.   If so, click it.   Then see what the partition structure looks like.   If not, delete BOTH the WinVista and MBR Entry 1 partitions => and THEN use the Undo EMBR option.

Now go back to Boot Edit and Add a boot item for XP ... then confirm it boots okay.

If so, then all's well with XP => you simply need to reinstall Vista as I noted before -- but you need to be SURE the boot item is configured correctly and that you don't use ANYTHING else to mess with the partitions.   I would install Vista with NO other disks connected except the Raptor ... basically as follows:

=>  Create a partition for Vista
=>  Create a boot item for that partition, being sure to CLEAR all of the other partitions from the MBR (in Boot Edit) ... i.e. the ONLY entry in the MBR for that boot item should be the new Vista partition.
=>  Go to the boot menu and select Vista, then click on Boot
=>  Now Ctrl-Alt-Del and boot to the Vista DVD & install Vista
=>  After Vista is installed and booting, do a Shut Down (from Vista's menu)
=>  Now boot to the Boot-It CD and select Re-Activate Boot It.

You should then be able to boot to XP or Vista easily.   Done this MANY times & it works like a charm.   At that point you can reconnect the other drives & set more things up to work smoothly.  (Post back when you get there)

Here's the boot menu from the latest system I set up -- ALL of the Windows OS's use the SAME data drive & the Documents/My Documents folders all point to the same place  ... so no matter what I boot to the e-mail is the same; the documents are the same; etc.   EVERY OS was installed using exactly the procedure I just described.

Boot-Menu-on-Spare-System.jpg
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by:garycase
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Clearly the EMBR got "hosed" ==> once you Undo it and then force it to be recreated (the Boot Edit actions to Clear an entry will do that) it will have a "clean" EMBR.

Not sure what caused that ... but it should work fine if you do it again.  Just do NOT do anything you don't understand !!  (or use any new utilities)
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by:bob733
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deletee the vista and mbr1 items but the undo embr is still greyed out.  =y
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by:bob733
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did  as you say, and i now only have xp as the only boot

But when I click on it ....it still goes to the standard windows dual boot window but this window has vista and earlier OS.

Picking earlier os gets a working xp

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by:garycase
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Clearly you had something set wrong in the EMBR when you did the Vista install -- or perhaps in the XP boot item afterwards ... otherwise the XP boot menu wouldn't "know" about Vista.

Your boot issue is EITHER a Vista boot manager that's somehow been install in the wrong place (you would have had to had it "visible" when you did the install) or an error in the BOOT.INI.   The simplest to fix is BOOT.INI ... so let's look at it first.

Next time you boot to XP, do this:   Right-click on My Computer; select Properties; click the Advanced tab; click Settings under Startup and Recovery; then click Edit.   This will open a Notepad window with the current BOOT.INI file.   Do Edit-Select All ... and then Paste it here as a comment.

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by:bob733
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Ok, I think we got it:

Here is what I did:
External HD and Internal Cd disconnected

Bootit with Floppy
Partition work  shows 3 partitions
   57 mb
   87 mb
   8 mb

Selected 87mb and click create
Named it Vista Try2 and used option 7

Did Settings and Limit Primaries NOT checked

Click Boot Edit Add
  ID used is Vista Try2
  Selected Vista Try2 partition
  Right side of screen had HD0 Entry 0 = Vista Try2
  NOTHING else was showing for all 7 HD in right side of screen
  Click OK, and Resumed
  Selected boot Vista, it would not boot, selected NO (boot from Diskett)

Using Vista DVD:
Booted to Vista DVD
Selected CORRECT partition
Vista install ran with no apparent problems
Vista is DEFINETELY up and running

Back to using Bootit Floppy
Boot to bootit from floppy
Reactivate Bootit
Restarted computer
Got Boot screen (xp and Vista Try2)
NOTE:  I belive for 1 nano second, I STILL saw 2 bootit lines flash on screen
Selected Vista Try2 from Bootit Boot screen
   Vista booted ok
Restarted computer
   This time I selected XP from Bootit Boot Screen
       Got the Windows Dual boot screen!
            Boot to earlier OS
            Boot to Vista
       Selected Boot to earlier OS
            XP Came up fine

Summary:
Do not know what happend first time through.  I suspect, I did not clear out all the entries in all the HD's.  I also do not know why I am seeing 2 bootit lines flash by on screen at Boot time.  Finally, I am not sure why if is select XP from the Bootit dual boot screen, why the system generates another Windows Dual boot screen with "Boot to earlier OS" and "Vista" as the two choices.

But, it works.  I am getting  ready to reconnect the external HD and the CD unless you feel differently (or if you are still sleeping and have not responded fiarly quickly).  I want to next put in the 8 gig an boot.

After that, I will have some questions on migrating "stuff" but I will start another  question for that.

Great help and perserverance on your part putting up with me Gary.  As always, I appreciate it.

Bob
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by:bob733
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Connected the external HD.   Appears to be working ok.
Connected the CD and The HD1 Both appear to be ok.

Now shutting down and going for the 8 gig.

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by:bob733
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put 8 gig in    all ok

looks like we are good to go.

Still cannot figure out the bootit 2.01 message that appears at boot time.  But will leave it go for now.
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by:garycase
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Up for a few minutes to let the dog out (then back to bed for 2-3 more hours).   After you install the 8GB and confirm that it's "seen" okay in Vista, do what I noted above [In the post here:  http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/Windows_Vista/Q_23844657.html?cid=238#22847864 ]

... Need to get rid of that extra boot menu when you go to XP :-)
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by:garycase
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Back to bed -- post the details of XP's BOOT.INI per my note above when you get a chance => that's probably the reason you get the "Vista/Earlier OS" choice ... if so, it's simple to fix.   If not, then you may have some residue of Vista's BCD (boot configuration data) setup --> which is MUCH more difficult to eliminate.

I'll check back when I get up in a couple hours.
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by:bob733
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XP's boot.ini file   doesnt look like this is the culprit

;
;Warning: Boot.ini is used on Windows XP and earlier operating systems.
;Warning: Use BCDEDIT.exe to modify Windows Vista boot options.
;
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT
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by:garycase
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No, it's not the culprit.

Clearly you didn't "Clear" the XP partition from the MBR when you originally installed Vista -- and it's added some boot code that can only be modified with BCDEdit.

It's not at all clear how we can get rid of this now ... the simplest thing is to just live with it.   But I'll look around a bit and perhaps "play" on a spare setup and see if I can identify what you'd need to do to delete it.
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by:garycase
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You said you bought Boot-It some time ago ... do you by chance have a recent image of XP?   The easiest fix would be to simply restore XP from a prior image :-)
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garycase earned 500 total points
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One other thought:   You should find your registration key for Boot-It and register the Boot-It installation.   This will enable Image Sets and Boot Now support -- you can then create a very simple-to-use icon to image either of your OS's.   If you keep current known-good images you can trivially recover from any problems you may encounter in the future.
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by:bob733
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Dont think an image would clean up the two Bootit messages as I have had bootit for some time.  Also, the last image i took was 10/01/2008 and I have done quite a bit since.

Bootit is registered but it says Version 1.85!  So I am snowed as to what is going on but it is working so I am content to just let it be.

Not sure what you mean about simple-to-use icon to image (unless this is in a newer version and I probably should update).  If you think so, just let me know, and we should probably close out this (world record threads) question.

Besides, I have additional question now that Vista64, 8 gig is up and running.

Bob
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by:garycase
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A "... simple-to-use icon" is easy to create if you've entered your registration info so Boot Now support works okay.

Just (a)  create an Image Set to make the image [You do this from Boot-It's Image Set menu]; (b) check the Boot Now support box in Settings;  (c) download the free BootNow utility; and (d)  create a shortcut on your desktop that invokes the image set.

For example, my "Image Vista Now" icon has this shortcut:
"C:\Program Files\Utilities\BOOTNOW.EXE" &Vista Ultimate/ims=ImageVU

It runs BOOTNOW (which I keep in a Program Files\Utilities folder), runs my Image Set called "ImageVU"; and then reboots to Vista Ultimate (that's what the "&Vista Ultimate" does -- you simply list the OS exactly as it's listed in the Boot Edit entry).

I have equivalent icons on each of my OS's desktops ["Image XP Now", "Image Vista Ultimate x64 Now", etc.] ... I also have an "Image All OS's" icon that runs an image set to update ALL of my images.
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by:garycase
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By the way ... v1.85 is the correct version for Boot-It.  (The latest is 1.86, just released last week)

I've also noticed that you do indeed get two notes on bootup r.e. the EMBR code => I think thay say 2.01 and 2.05 ... so that's apparently normal.  Nothing to worry about.   (I'd never noticed that before -- not sure if that's some anomaly in the later versions of what, but it works perfectly, so nothing to be concerned about)

Finally, I just noticed your other question ... I'll write a few thoughts in that later => I'm on my way out the door for a few hours.   If I get back in time I'll write a few thoughts later this afternoon;  otherwise it will be late tonight, as we're going out this evening.
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