Vista partition extend

Hi,

A while ago, I created a partition and installed a new system in it. Now, I want to extend the patition.
However, I find the option "Extend Volume" for this patition is not available! Did I do sothing wrong when I create the patition? How can I extend this patition now?

Information:
Vista
Disk 0, Basic, there is some unallocated area
the patition cannot be extended: Healthy (Boot, Page File, Crash Dump, Logical Drive)

Thank you in advance.
markdotAsked:
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dathhoCommented:
Here are the rules.

You must use NTFS to format the basic volume. If the volume is formatted by using FAT, you must convert it to NTFS before you can extend it. For more information about converting FAT volumes to NTFS, see Chapter 13, Working with File Systems.
 
You can extend a basic volume on the same disk only, and the basic volume must be followed by contiguous unallocated space.
 
You can extend a logical drive within contiguous free space in the extended partition that contains it. If you extend a logical drive beyond the free space available in the extended partition, the extended partition grows to contain the logical drive as long as the extended partition is followed by contiguous unallocated space.

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markdotAuthor Commented:
The patition is NTFS.
Please tell me what I can do in my case.
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141ANGCommented:
You have another option, you can download the newest version of Knoppix which is a bootable OS and the newer versions recognize NTFS, it has partition management tools built into it. I have personally used it to modify partition sizes on my Vista ultimate box. The DVD version of this has more tools and options built into it.
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Now, the major problem with using Windows Vista's built-in tool for extending partitions is that in order to extend a partition, the free space must be immediately to the right of the partition you want to extend, like this:

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFF

where the P's are the partition to extend, the F's are the free space you get by shrinking a partition. When you shrink a partition, the free space is created immediately to the right of the partition you performed the shrink on, like this:

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSFFFFFFFFFFFFF

So how can you move the free space from after one partition to after another partition?  How can you change this:

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSFFFFFFFFFFFFF

to this:

PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

You can't with the Vista tool. But you can with a shareware tool called Boot-It NG:

Boot-It NG is a shareware partition management utility that can be used to manage the shrinking and extending of partitions better than Vista's built-in tool.  It has an old DOS style interface, but it works well.  You can get it here:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm

I downloaded the free trial version and burned it to a CD with the included program MakeDisk.exe in order to be able to move some unallocated space immediately behind one of my four partitions that I wanted to extend.  I just booted from the CD, clicked on the menu choice for "Partition Work", and then used the "partition slide" concept to move the unallocated space.  The TerabyteUnlimited site has a good deal of documentation, tutorials, answers to FAQs, videos, etc. for how to use the program:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/support-bootit-next-generation.htm
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markdotAuthor Commented:
Thanks a lot for all the helps.

According to above two experts, I need to download a software and put it to a CD then boot my PC from the CD?
If what I said is correct,:
Do you think I can put the software in a  flash drive instead of a CD?
Do you think I need to set the computer boot from the CD/flash drive? How?
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Knoppix I am pretty sure is big enough that you would need to use a CD for the "basic" version, or a DVD for the "full" version.  Boot It NG is small enough that it can also be put on a floppy disk.  If you have enough room on a USB flash drive, then I suppose either version of Knoppix could be put on a flash drive.  In order to be able to boot to a flash drive, your BIOS must support it.  When you first boot up, you often see some quick message on the screen saying something like "F2 for Setup";  it may be another key than function key F2 -- it all depends upon your BIOS.  Whatever the key is, you rapidly press and release it while the computer is booting up, and if you are quick enough so that you aren't taken into the actual boot sequence into Windows you will "enter Setup" and you will be taken to a screen where the arrow keys, the Enter key, the space bar select options in the BIOS or move around between options.  You would need to have an option to boot from a USB device in order to be able to do it (more commonly, you have options for booting from the hard drive, a CD or DVD, or a floppy disk.)  If you have such an option, then choose booting from the USB device as your "primary" (first) boot option, leaving CD/DVD/floppy/hard disk as your other options.  
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markdotAuthor Commented:
LeeTutor,
OK, I have just downloaded bootitng.zip (correct?) and unziped it, got a few files including BOOTITNG.EXE and others.
Now, what I should do: copy all the files into a CD/floppy/USB or run BOOTITNG.EXE to create something in CD/floppy/USB?
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
I'm going to have to go to sleep in a few moments.  I don't know if there is a difference between what the Boot It NG zip file contains from when I last downloaded it, but be sure to read all the files and go to the page where I said you could find all sorts of online documentation.  If there is no difference between what I downloaded a few months ago and what is available now, then you should run the MAKEDISK.EXE file in order to make a bootable CD with the program on it.  Then change your BIOS to boot to the CD, and run it, following the instructions I gave you, and the instructions in the link to tutorials I gave you.
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nobusCommented:
follow up for the sleepy Lee :
makedisk makes a bootable floppy or cd
boot from it - do NOT install it on the disk - hit cancel
select partition work, and your partition - continue further as per Lee's post
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markdotAuthor Commented:
nobus,

Thak you for your comment.
I still want to know more before I start my work.
Can we do the partition job when my Vista is running, instead bother about makedisk and reboot...
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
No, you cannot.  You need to boot from the CD containing Boot It NG.
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Did you take a look at the page I gave a link for containing videos, tutorials, etc.?  Here is the page on How To guides.  Particularly, take a look at the tutorials on Creating the Installation Media and on Example of How to Resize Partitions:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/index.htm
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markdotAuthor Commented:
LeeTutor,

Thank you.
Yes I watched the videos carefully but found not easy for me to understand. For example, what is the difference between partition and volume? What about inside and outside?
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markdotAuthor Commented:
And what is the File System? I found it selected 11 or 5?
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markdotAuthor Commented:
And after install something in a CD, I need to install something in my hard disk as well?
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Here is a pretty good discussion of the difference between partition and volume:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_(computing)

Particularly, read the section entitled Differences between Volume and Partition

Also, you can read this page from the TeraByte site:

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=015
What Terminology is Used in BootIt NG that I Might Need to Know?

File System is how the disk is organized at a basic level (formatted), such as FAT32, or NTFS.  I don't know what the numbers 11 or 5 mean.  (It's been a few months since I had to use Boot It NG, and I don't recall noticing those numbers.)
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
No, as nobus said above, when you first boot the CD, it will ask whether you want to install the program to its own partition;  this would be the case you might choose if you used it as a boot manager, multi-booting various operating systems.  But you are using it just to extend or create or "slide" partitions.  So hit Cancel for that question, then if I remember correctly, you will be taken to a message about entering maintenace mode, and you click OK.  Then on the main screen that follows, click on the button for Partition Work.
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markdotAuthor Commented:
LeeTutor,

Thank you for quick response!
We can see the first two videos:
Installation Step 1: Creating the Installation Media (video)
Installation Step 2: Installing BootIt Next Generation to the Hard Drive (video)
Is it means we need to install something to hard disk? Moreover, in the example of partition, I can see a partition BootIt EMBRM, 8MB.
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
As I said, you don't need to install it on the hard drive.  You can do what you want just by running the program from the CD.  Take a look at the tutorial on the How To page on "Example of How to Resize Partitions"
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markdotAuthor Commented:
Hi,

I have just booted from the CD....unfortunately, I fail to extend that! In the partition work window, the area I want to extend is a Valume while the others are Partitions!
I then reboot to normal Vista and found the area I want to extend is a Logical drive (the others are Unallocated, Primary partition)

What I can do?
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markdotAuthor Commented:
Hi,

All finished.....the area cannot be extended and my Vista system refused to work.....perhaps I need to reinstall my Vista....
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markdotAuthor Commented:
I remember what I did was only "slide" in BootItNG  :(
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nobusCommented:
from pg 23 of the manual :  

Knipsel.JPG
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markdotAuthor Commented:
:(
Yes, I did those....but the max size and the new size is exactly the same, so I cannot increase any bit.
Now, my problem is Vista system (located in the volume that I want to extend) refused to work. It displays "Preparing you desktop" for long time and then stuk in a blue window....
I have just found the drive letter for the Vista system was changed (by BootItNG slide?), I thought I find the problem.....unfortunately, after change the letter back, the sutuation is still the same.
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nobusCommented:
do you have adjacent space next to it ?
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Can you make a diagram of the partition(s) and free space, like I did in the comment where I first suggested Boot It NG?  
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markdotAuthor Commented:
Yes, this is the picture (but is from Vista, not from BootItNG)

After "slide", I put some unallocated area UUUUUUU immediately after the area 2222222222 that is what I need to extend
Note,  I got two Vistas, the are in OOOOOOOOO and 222222222, in the same Disk, now 22222222 cannot work!

Disk 0:   CCCCCC RRRRRRRRRR OOOOOOOOOOOO uuuuuuuuuu 2222222222 UUUUUUUUU

C: Healthy (EISA Configutation)
R: RECOVERY Healthy (Primary Partition)
O: Healthy (System, Boot, Page File, Active, Crash Dump, Primary Partition)
u: Unallocated
2: Healthy (Logical Drive)
U: Unallocated  9.55 GB
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
Well, there can be only 4 primary partitions on a drive, or else 3 primary and 1 extended, which can contain a number of logical partitions.  Where are the two unallocated areas, both inside the extended partition, or one outside and the other inside (and if so, which is outside?), or both outside?
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markdotAuthor Commented:
Agian, from Vista (Forgot inside or outside, I need to boot by BootItNG)
Disk 0:   CCCCCC RRRRRRRRRR OOOOOOOOOOOO uuuuuuuuuu 2222222222 UUUUUUUUU

C:  Primary partition
R:  Primary Partition
O: Primary partition
u: Unallocated
2: Logical Drive
U: Unallocated

As you can see, no Free space!!  Free space equal to Unallocated??
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
The free space is the unallocated space, both u and U.  But if both u and U are NOT in the Extended partition that contains your logical drive, then you cannot extend the logical drive.  You need to move the U space into the extended partition in order to be able to extend partition 2.  I think you have to do that by choosing the Extended partition in Boot It NG, then clicking on Slide, then making free space after to be zero, which should move the size of U INTO the Extended Partition.

I'm also not sure whether it is safe to have Vista installed on a logical drive; I'm pretty sure previous Windows versions had to be installed on a primary partition (as your first Vista was.)  I have been trying to hunt down an authorative answer to that question for a while now, and so far no luck.
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
If you're looking at the Vista Disk Management screen, it should show you a dark green outline around those portions of the disk that are included in the Extended Partition. My question was, is either u or U included in the Extended Partition? I am including a screen shot of my Disk Management screen, which has no unallocated space, but I have three logical partitions inside my extended partition.
diskmgmt.JPG
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markdotAuthor Commented:
>I'm pretty sure previous Windows versions had to be installed on a primary partition
That is an importent thing that i didn't aware before! However, in my case, if want the second Vista installed in a independent area, I got to put it in the logical drive because the 3 primary partitions are occupied when I got the PC.

>You need to move the U space into the extended partition
I believe you are right!!!! I will try.

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markdotAuthor Commented:
Hi Experts,

I can now report to you that things are successfully solved!
1. LeeTutor pointed out the key: move outside to inside.The reason why I ignored it is that it need to do in a partition MBR, not in the unallocated partition.
2. I move back the drive letter by regedit.

Thank you so much for all your time and excellent reseach work.
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