xenapp, xendesktop , xenserver , I am confused!

So I am thinking about 2 things , I want our users to remotely access their desktops , and I want their desktops and servers virtualized, and I am confused what apps achieve this.  

xenapp- I can publish applications with this, and publish a desktop, is this virualizing the desktop or the application ?

xendesktop- If I can publish a desktop in xenapp, why use xendesktop ?  Can I publish xenapps inside of a zendesktop , Can I virualize a server with xendesktop ??

Xenserver-  If you can do all these things with the two above what do I need xenserver for ?

I am so so confused, but I am so interested in Citrix, someone please help!

level9techAsked:
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Carl WebsterConnect With a Mentor Commented:
Why would you want accounting on their own domain?

You can "silo" accounting to their own Citrix server and licenses, publish the accounting app(s), give them the web interface and let them go to work.  Depending on the application, 1 beefy server should easily handle 15 to 80 users.

Are you not wanting the various depts to have access to the other depts applications?

Using XenServer or Hyper-V or ESX, you just create a VM, tell what the guest OS is going to be, answer some questions, point it to the ISO or CD and let it install.  After that there is very little that is different from a physical server.  It is actually fairly easy to do.
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Carl WebsterCommented:
XenServer is equivalent to Microsoft's Hyper-V and VMware's ESX.  They allow you to virtualize OSes so that you can run multiple servers on one physical box.

XenDesktop is used to virtualize desktops for end users.

XenApp is used for virtualizing applications and making them available to users.  You can publish the server's dekstop but Citrix does't recommend that and if you do publish the server's desktop, you have a lot of work ahead of you to lock it down.

Most people who use Citrix products and have the need for making virtualized desktop available for users use XenServer, Provisioning Server and XenDesktop.
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level9techAuthor Commented:
1. So lets say I wanted accounting on their own windows domain with one server,  I would have 15 virtual windows xp machines and 1 windows 2003 virtual server.  

How would I make them their own network , so if I have other virtual departments that I dont want to see each other ?  

2. So in theory could I run xen  app on one of my virtual servers ?   How do you actually load a virtual server operating system, do you use xencenter with xen server ??

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level9techAuthor Commented:
Well its not so much accounting I want on their own domain as a our sister companies,   We want the sister companies to have completely seperate servers and workstations, their own virtual network.

So let me see if I get this correctly.

1. xenserver - What part of xenserver will allow me to virtualize 2008 server ?  Like which app inside xenserver actually does this process.
2. Xendesktop- I can virtualize desktops with this portion and they are hosted on the xenserver ???
3.  Xenapp- I virtualize the applications and publish them, the xenapp server can be hosted on a virtual server on xenserver ?

Thanks so much
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Carl WebsterCommented:
1.  XenServer.  XenServer is the entity under which OSes are virtualized.  
2.  They CAN be hosted under XenServer or you can setup the physical servers necessary.  IIRC, it takes three servers to dish out XenDesktop.  If you already have a SQL Server then it will only take two.
3.  Yes, or Hyper-V or ESX
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level9techAuthor Commented:
Why does it take 3 servers to have xen desktop ?
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Carl WebsterCommented:
Desktop Delivery Center
Data Collector
Data Store (SQL Server)
License Server

If you already a XenApp farm, then you should already a Data Store and License Server.  The diagram I have from Citrix shows the Data Store and License Server as one server.
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level9techAuthor Commented:
So when I want to make seperate virtual networks such as 15 xendesktops and 2 virtualized servers,  Should I make seperate farms for each network ?


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Carl WebsterCommented:
Citrx Best Practice is the fewer farms the better (one prefered), the fewer zones the better (one preferred unless doing zone preference and failover in which case you will need two or you have widely diverse geo areas).

If you do have multple farms, they can all share a license server.
If you multiple zone watch for bandwith saturation.

Of course, your business, legal and other requirements dictate what works in your scenario.

If the 2 virtualized servers will be on separate networks then you can do a Farm for each.  Each farm will have a separate Data Store and License server.  The XenDesktops, I assume, will be running apps from one of the XenApp servers.  Then those XenDesktop systems will belong to the respective farms.
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level9techAuthor Commented:
So in your opinion , Lets say I wanted 5 completely seperate networks, what is the best way to do it?  I mean we have many of our sister companies who will be coming on board, and we need them all completely seperate, is there a better way to do it ?
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Carl WebsterCommented:
Separate networks, separate farms, separate data stores (but all can be on one SQL Server), separate license servers.  The Active Directory design is another matter.  That will depend upon a lot of factors: legal, business, bandwidth, security, admin, etc.

If the 5 entities MUST be kept seprate for security reasons then the ONLY way to do it is a separate Forest for each entity.  In Active Directory, the Forest is the Security Boundary.
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Carl WebsterCommented:
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