Extend Range of Wireless Routers with 2 Repeaters

I have a trend net wireless router and two repeaters, one is a Zoom 4400 AP+2 and the other is a Belkin F5D7132 Wireless-G Universal Range Extender. the wireless router is in the tasting room. I want the barn to be able to pick up the signal from the tasting room. I hooked up the Belkin and it worked out fine. However the studio is too far from the tasting room to pick up the wireless signal from the Trend Net router. However, it does pick up ther signal from the Belkin. I put all of the devices on the same subnet. The Zoom is also in repeater mode. the laptop in the studio picks up the signal from Zoom but it does not get DHCP and obviously it does not browse the Internet. However the Zoom does say it is connected to the Belkin and the Notebook says it has a good connect with the Zoom as long as I have a static. But it still cannot browse the Internet or ping the default gateway. do I need to have two Zoom repeaters or two Belkins to get this to work? Is there something I'm missing? I've attached a rudimentary sketch.
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Can your laptop connect to the Belkin from the studio?

If the laptop can't connect to the Belkin, I see no reason why the Zoom should be able to (even if it's -- perhaps falsely -- claiming to be connected to it already).

I will presume you changed the Zoom from its stock 10.x.x.x addressing to match a 192.168.x.x network the other 2 use by default (or changed both of the others to use the same 10.x.x.x subnet used by the Zoom).

Also, the Zoom unit uses WDS to connect as a repeater; the Belkin does not.  So you could try putting the Zoom in the barn and the Belkin in the studio instead, but without more info there's no way to tell for sure if that will help... e.g. the TrendNet TEW-633GR supports WDS, but without knowing what model and version you have I couldn't say whether it supports WDS or not.
Also, if all 3 locations have a common service drop, you might try Powerline adapters.

Trendnet - http://trendnet.com/products/products.asp?cat=65 (try to ignore ''your'' instead of ''you're'' in their animation.)
D-Link - http://www.dlink.com/products/category.asp?cid=106&sec=1
Linksys - http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&cid=1166859566539 (their PLK200 starter kit includes 2 of the PLE200 units)
Belkin - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatSectionView.process?Section_Id=206578

The barn and/or studio can use subpanels off the main service panel, but if they have separate service drops the Powerline units will probably not work.
If they do work for this situation you should get higher effective throughput using the Zoom and Belkin devices as access points rather than as repeaters since each repeater hop cuts bandwidth by up to half (because they cannot talk wirelessly to both the host and client simultaneously).
grl855Author Commented:
Darr247: sorry I could not get this information to you sooner, the site went down. Also, I mentioned powerline ethernet to the owner, they were not sure if that would work given the electrical infrastructure, they said to stick with wireless. Here's more info. Thanks for all your help.

>but without knowing what model and version you have I couldn't say whether it supports WDS or not
"TRENDnet 54Mbps Wireless G Broadband Router ( TEW-432BRP Version D1.0R)"
Can your laptop connect to the Belkin from the studio? Says connected but cannot ping gateway or get dhcp
>I will presume you changed the Zoom from its stock 10.x.x.x addressing to match a 192.168.x.x network the other 2 use by default (or changed both of the others to use the same 10.x.x.x subnet used by the Zoom).
all of the devices are in the 192.168.10.xx subnet
What Belkin is telling me to do is use the Part # F5D7230-4  to be setup as an access point in bridging mode. I understand still need the Trendnet Router to perform DHCP and NAT.  They said I could use 2 f5d7132 units, that the unit in Buildiing C could get the signal from Building B. They said WDS does not support this configutation, that I needing to run in Bridge mode. The F5D7320-4 is actually an access point in this configuration and therefore will not perform DHCP or NAT. I would have to attach via ethernet cable to a switch hooked up to the Trendnet Router and not use the wireless on the Trendnet.
Do you think this will actually work?
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That Trendnet does not appear to support WDS bridging/repeating.

>> Can your laptop connect to the Belkin from the studio?

> Says connected but cannot ping gateway or get dhcp

Take the laptop to the same room as the Belkin and see if it gets DHCP and a connection to the internet there.

> Do you think this will actually work?

As far as I can see, the only 'bridge' mode the Belkin F5D7132 supports is bridging from wired to wireless. i.e. run cat5 from a LAN port on the Trendnet to the RJ45 jack on the Belkin. You don't need a F5D7320-4 to do that, though. Adding another F5D7132 makes sense, if you're not able to make the Zoom talk to the Belkin. But again, you generally need to be able to connect to an access point with a laptop at the location where you want to mount a repeater, because if you can't there's not enough signal available to repeat. Ideally, you would mount the repeater a little over halfway from where the source is and where you want to use the signal, of course.
grl855Author Commented:
> Adding another F5D7132 makes sense, if you're not able to make the Zoom talk to the Belkin.

Is there any reason to think that I will be able to get the two Belkins repeater to work together to send network traffic from building a to c and vice versa? Is this the wirelss equivalent of running one long ethernet cable from a to c and will it work? Does the whole idea of router to repeater to repeater make any sense or is this the networking equivalent of chasing windmills?
grl855Author Commented:
Suppose I bought this range antenna extender


Would this do me any good? Do you think I might be able to get a direct signal from building a to building c?
> Would this do me any good?

What are you going to mount it on?

I don't know that any Belkins or Zooms have removable antennae, and while Trendnets that have detachable antennae use RP-SMA connectors (as do most D-Links; most Linksys use RP-TNC connectors), I'm not sure that the TEW-432BRP has detachable antennae at all.
grl855Author Commented:
The Belkin Repeater has a removable antenna. Would it work on the repeater or is it supposed to be used on a router only?
I don't know what kind of connector the Belkin has.

The Trendnet does NOT have any detachable antennae?

I'll take some pics of RP-SMA and RP-TNC connectors and post them here so you can see if they match what you have. It might take me an hour or so - I'm otherwise occupied for a little while.
RP-TNC - the antenna-side of the connector is about 5/16'' or about 7-8mm; the radio-side is about 3/8'' or about 1cm.

RP-SMA - the antenna-side of the connector is about 5/32'' or about 4mm; the radio-side is about 3/16'' or about 5mm.

As you can see, SMA is just about half the size of TNC.

The RP (Reverse Polarity) part comes from which half of the connector the center pin is on... the original SMA and TNC plugs/jacks had the center pin located on the other half of the connector.
grl855Author Commented:
The range extender has the RP-TNC style antenna.
grl855Author Commented:
Sorry, I called RadioLabs and they said it was RPA--SMA style and it would perform exactly what I'm trying to do. I might be able to use WDS instead of bridged mode because it should throw a signal all the way to the studio. I think WDS is a lot easier to setup and use. The antenna (http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/wireless-range-extender.php) should be here thurs or fri and I'll let you know how it turns out.

You cannot use WDS without buying another router or AP because the only device there that supports it is the Zoom. The Belkin does not, and that model of Trendnet does not (at least according to their data sheets and manuals).
grl855Author Commented:
What actually arrived is a f5d7231-4. Apparently WDS has been added back in, probably after numerous complaints. I called Belkin and asked if I could put the amplified antenna on the router and they said yes. However, it is not a detachable antenna like the repeater so it looks like they are mistaken. However they said I could get the unit to work with two range extenders without having to use bridged mode. I'm hoping if I put the amplified antenna on the range extender it will pick up the signal and broadcast it to the studio without having to put a second repeater. Radio Labs said it would double the range of the router to 1400 feet, byt that logic it will only extend the range of the repeater to 600 feet (from 300). Anyway, I think it worth a try.  If I have enough time I'll prototype the network here at home before going out to the winery so I may have an idea if it works, but is really hard to duplicate the same situation here. I tried with the Linksys Routers and it worked fine but bombed at the clients.

I hope Belkin is right, anyway I still have about two weeks to figure this out.
grl855Author Commented:
I'm actually typing this on a notebook that I believe is connected to the second range extender. Although it does not show up in the list of wireless clients speed definitely improved when it was hooked up. The next test is to actually go out to the winery and test but this looks good so far!
grl855Author Commented:
This is the comment from Belkin:

Gary, we understand that you would like to connect two range extenders.

Please follow the steps below to connect the two range extenders.

1.Open the web interface of the first range extender by typing
2.Under wireless click on basic and change it to access point mode.
3.Click on apply changes. Make sure the range extender is connected to the computer while initial configuration.
4.Then open the web interface of the second range extender by typing
5.Make sure the SSID and channel number are same on both the range extenders.
6.Then Under wireless click on basic and change it to repeater mode.
7.Click on apply changes.

I think this is the configuration: I keep the Trendnet Router in place, connect the Belkin Router as an access point. Configure the 1st Repeater as an access point and the 2nd Repeater as a repeater

However, my question now is: Do I need to connect my Linksys Wireless Router to the Access Point (1st Repeater) in order to create a LAN Segment that is now attached to the Main Segment that has the Trendnet Router? Will the wireless be usable to all clients to connect to the access point? My understanding is that an access point has to be hooked up to a switch. I'm assuming that that since the 2nd repeater is in repeater mode clients can access wirelessly.

Is it really this complex or am I overlooking something?

Thanks, you've been very helpful in getting me to understand the ramification of all this and what the proper connectors. You already deserve more than 500 points.
> Do I need to connect my Linksys Wireless Router to the Access Point (1st Repeater) in
> order to create a LAN Segment that is now attached to the Main Segment that has the Trendnet Router?

You shouldn't *need* to, but you could.  You could also use just a switch and it would be in the same network as the Trendnet... or use one of the wireless router's LAN ports and it would work the same way.

But if you want that segment to be a separate network, then - yes - you would need to connect the AP's cat5 port to the router's WAN port.

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