PC won't turn off, not with Shut Down or Restart

ccpjc - haven't tried that, can't do this until tonight.

hexemes - it is time for some repair, I'm not familiar with windows repair . . .

do you have a windows disk at hand? simply insert it and click repair rather than install

so Windows XP disk? If so, I have one.

ccpjc - I tried the command line shutdown, didn't work. At first it started flickering but then just stopped. I tried both shutdown and restart.

Mc7400 - thanks for the tip on hard shutdown
             - I'll have a look for the APM setting

nobus - have tried that in the past, will have to google that first but sounds good.

have you done this way for hard shutdown?

CTRL + ALT + DEL

tab across to highlight the shutdown button and then press CTRL + ENTER

this is instantanious shutdown...

appolgies if you already know and do that :p

here the site : http://www.updatexp.com/scannow-sfc.html

hexemes - didn't know about CTRL + ENTER. Unfortunately, I tried that and now it seems dead :-(  
- it was an accident waiting to happen.

I tried the CTRL+ENTER, it sort of worked, I got a warning message about losing data, I clicked ok. It started to shut down, but it never shut off.

Now when I turn it on, it doesn't seem to start, it still seems like it's in the suspended shut-off mode. It seems like it's spinning but nothing.

Looks like I'll need a trip to Best Buy . . .

hexemes - would it make a difference if I pressed CTRL+CLICK instead of CTRL+ENTER?

nobus - l looked at the scannow link, looks good, but I'm dead right now. thanks.

does it not start again?   switch the power off on the back, and on again after 20 sec..

no, it won't start. The power comes on, it starts humming / spinning, but nothing. Screen is black, no hint of life. I checked the monitor it's still plugged in, I get a DELL logo comes up, but when the computer turns on - blackout.

Next to the power button / light is a "disk spinning" light. It comes on and stays on.

nobus - thanks. I could probably do that, I'd have to set up shop on the dining room table and then do basic troubleshooting. I've done some work on the inside of a couple of desktops at home, so can tackle this with some EE help.

cityqat - how did you know I have RDC? Yes, that seems to be an issue. I have an older Dell at home and RDC works great - I RDC into it each day from work, works fine. Right before my disaster I could RDC from Dell to IBM NetVista(now dead) but not vice versa.

All:
What's your guess - the HD is hosed? the OS is hosed? can it be cleaned up?

I have a lot of valuable data on the machine, and my son (12th grade) has all his school work (plus his iPod stuff).

If I do all this troubleshooting, I'm not sure what I am looking for, and how would I know what ultimately is the issue? I know you don't have the answer, but I'm thinking maybe I should just buy a new HD, set it up with the OS, and then pray I can get the data off the current messed up HD.

This is the 2nd major HD failure I've had in 3 months . . . . so very frustrated. On the current dead machine, about 3 years ago the master went bad, I installed a new master, connected the old master as a slave and saved my data.

So at this point I am debating about troubleshooting as nobus suggested or getting a new HD for my master.

Thanks for all the help.

nobus - sounds good, thanks. Most of what you are saying is over my head, but I'm game to give it a try.

>>make a backup first of the data !
 - how would I do that? by removing the HD and setting it up as an external drive?

>>check if you can boot from a cd;
 - that sounds like a good idea. So I copy the file to a CD, then stick it in  the computer and it will boot from it? If so, then I could hopefully snatch my data, then work through the issues?

At this point, however, I need the data more than the machine. So that's going to be my focus, can you advise on t hat? Sorry if that's taking this in a different direction.

Before doing the above suggestions try to reset the BIOS by the jumper on motherboard or remove the battery for few sec. It may helps.

Mc7400 - ok, I'm game, but

>>reset the BIOS by the jumper on motherboard
    - Ok, this is deep for me, but I found this for resetting BIOS, http://forums.driverguide.com/showthread.php?t=655

      and this for motherboard battery: http://www.pctechbytes.com/computer/article-21.html

What do you think?

Sounds like removing the battery might be easier . . . but I don't know where it is . . . can research that.

ok, I'll give it a try . . . leaving work now, thanks.

Good news !

I set up shop in the dining room, did a little vacuuming inside and outside, re-seated the video card, and voila, the PC booted up !

I am now copying data to an external drive, that will some time. I'll post updates but I got my data, whew !

I also saw the motherboard battery, that was easy to find and I never knew about that.

Bad news !

now I'm back to where I started from:

PC won't shut down. I tried normal shutdown, then on command line - nothing.

Then I tried the hard shut down: CTRL+ALT+DEL, then press CTRL+ENTER and the system went black, plus the system tried to shut down but just spins . . . .

So maybe I shouldn't do that . . . keeps hosing me . . .

I removed the motherboard battery, cleaned it (with eraser), put back in, still won't boot.

Moving on to BIOS tips . . .

nobos had suggested running sfc /scannow, have you did that?

>the system tried to shut down but just spins
If the system show logout and close windows then it become black screen then it is the power supply.

mc7400 - no did not try sfc /scannow, if it comes back up I will try that.

>>then it is the power supply.
  - ok, not sure what is the power supply, is it replaceable?

I read about taking the motherboard battery out for 2+ hours, so I'll try that.

Thanks for following up.

Just look where you plug in the power cord, that box which is fixed with 4 screws
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/b2b/3/511/70674/sell_atx_power_supply.html
or just google power supply image.

Welcome

you asked : how do i backup the data - i posted it; READ my post please !
you asked how to make the boot cd ? youdo NOT copy it to cd; you use an ISO burning tool, or image burning tool; in Nero found under backup section
for troubleshooting your problem; i also posted that in my 1st POST !

nobus, I did read your post about backing up data and do appreciate the help and hanging with me.

To clarify, you said "make a backup first of the data !", so since you said "first backup the data", I'm thinking "Well, how do I do that if the computer doesn't even turn on". So that's why I asked "how would I do that? by removing the HD and setting it up as an external drive?" So I was following your advice just didn't understand the steps.

Regarding the "boot cd", in your 5th post you said >>check if you can boot from a cd; then use this one to boot from : (etc.) so that's why I said in 22942532: " that sounds like a good idea. So I copy the file to a CD, then stick it in  the computer and it will boot from it? If so, then I could hopefully snatch my data, then work through the issues?"

So again, I was interested in your suggestion but needed to clarify my understanding of what I was supposed to do.

btw, what the heck does this mean: "in Nero found under backup section for troubleshooting your problem" ?

you said you posted this in your 1st POST, but here are you posts:
1. possibly even running sfc /scannow from the run box will help
2. here the site : http://www.updatexp.com/scannow-sfc.html
3. does it not start again?   switch the power off on the back, and on again after 20 sec..

anyway, I do appreciate the help.

I'm definitely an "intern" when it comes to taking about PC's and messing with BIOS / CMOS / booting from CD, etc.

I want to respect your time as well.

Update:

Put motherboard battery back in and it booted up straight away !

I then tried chkdsk: it would not execute chkdsk -f, it wouldn't do that because of a "Chkdsk cannot run because the volume is in use by another process..

I then entered chkdsk thinking it would give me the parameters and it just ran. It got through 2 of 3 steps then died because of being run in "read-only".

I then was able to shut down the system via DOS, shutdown -s (that's all I entered, then a nice dialog box popped up saying it was going to shut down in 27s, 26s, etc.

I have re-booted the PC a couple of times. So it looks like it's "working", or "workable", but there is definitely an issue that I'd like to get solved.

Still the PC won't shut down normally, I have to shut down from DOS.

and I can't run chckdsk /F.

Thanks all for sticking with this.

Mc7400 -
>>c: drive > properties > tools > error checking > select the two options > click yes
 - ok, I've done defrag and disk cleanup, but never this, so that's a nice tip for me.

>>The problem is either power supply or mother board
 - power supply looks simple enough, once I get my hands on one.
 - motherboard sounds nasty . . .
 - haven't tried hard boot yet, can't try until tonight.
     - also, this is a good tip you gave from above: >>go to start > sittings > control panel > power options, then press advanced tab, select shutdown from the drop down menu.
 

If you can borrow a power supply and see, if it wouldn't work then you may get help from local technician to change motherboard

nobus, no worries, thanks for the explanation.

re:
>>to create the knoppix cd (which is an ISO file) you must copy it with the appropriate burning tool
  - ok, thanks for the clarification

>>BUT YOU NEED a drive to copy your data too, and THAT would be the external one.
  - luckily it booted up last night so the first thing I did was backup to external drive.

is everything ok then ?

Update:

Stability !

I ran chkdsk via C:\ drive, properties, tools, error-checking (so it scheduled it on the next re-boot, worked great).

I also changed power options so that pressing power button (for 5 s) turns off, not standby.

the PC then reboots fine and so far reliably (knock on wood, ha ha).

So,
- I have my data,
- PC seems stable

- still it won't shutdown normally, not even by DOS command.

So I will close this out, thanks so much for the tips and sticking with me.

What do you of just wiping the machine and starting over? Do you think that is a good idea? Mc7400 thinks it might be power supply or motherboard.

I have not done the scannow, maybe that would also be good . . . do you think defrag and disk cleanup might address my issue (that it won't shut down normally)?

Thanks again.

defrag, disk cleanup will not do, but sfc may.

well; with such strange issues, i tend to test first my basics, eg ram and disk
then i check the OS, with different tools, chkdsk, sfc, repair install
if still problems, i do a fresh install (speeds up the system too)

Ok, thanks again.

I think I will

- try scannow
- get a decent backup / RAID system, home-style
- work towards a fresh install

Will try scannow over the weekend and let you know, then can close this out.

Help is much appreciated, I learn a lot and save bucks - double bonus.

Final update:

I ran sfc /scannow, that was uneventful.

Still the PC won't shut down, even with DOS command. But shutting down with power button and re-booting seems fine, so things seem ok, plus my data is safe, thank God.

Ok, thanks again.

system stablized from all the suggestions and work.

>>   ran sfc /scannow, that was uneventful.  <<  it never reports errors, but does replace files !