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PC won't turn off, not with Shut Down or Restart

My PC won't shutdown with "Shutdown" or "Restart" actions. When I click on these the computer does nothing, doesn't even blink.

I have to do a hard shut-down. When I do this, the PC says "Going to standby mode", and sometimes it goes to standby mode but mot of the time it shuts down. I then re-boot normally.

the PC also has another issue with remote desktop connection, perhaps that's related. If you think it might be related, I'll describe this issue in detail.

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Alaska Cowboy
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Alaska Cowboy
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11 Solutions
 
ccpjcCommented:
can you shutdown the computer via command line?
(shutdown)
Start -> Run -> cmd -> shutdown -s -t 0
(restart)
Start -> Run -> cmd -> shutdown -r -t 0
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Leon TealePenetration TesterCommented:
hmmm..perhaps if you do a 'chkdsk -f' it may repair the problem or do a windows repair
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
ccpjc - haven't tried that, can't do this until tonight.

hexemes - it is time for some repair, I'm not familiar with windows repair . . .
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Leon TealePenetration TesterCommented:
do you have a windows disk at hand? simply insert it and click repair rather than install
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
so Windows XP disk? If so, I have one.
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Mc7400Commented:
Hello,

When you make hard shutdown it will go to standby, if you continue pressing  the bottom  for more than 4 seconds then it will be forced to shutdown but without closing the windows properly, if you like to close the windows properly with the button then go to start > sittings > control panel > power options, then press advanced tab, select shutdown from the drop down menu. This will shutdown win properly when you press the button.

To solve the original problem make sure the APM  is enabled in boot setup, usually to enter this setup you have to press the DEL key just after booting.

HTH
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nobusCommented:
possibly even running sfc /scannow from the run box will help
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
ccpjc - I tried the command line shutdown, didn't work. At first it started flickering but then just stopped. I tried both shutdown and restart.

Mc7400 - thanks for the tip on hard shutdown
             - I'll have a look for the APM setting

nobus - have tried that in the past, will have to google that first but sounds good.
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Leon TealePenetration TesterCommented:
have you done this way for hard shutdown?

CTRL + ALT + DEL

tab across to highlight the shutdown button and then press CTRL + ENTER

this is instantanious shutdown...

appolgies if you already know and do that :p
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nobusCommented:
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
hexemes - didn't know about CTRL + ENTER. Unfortunately, I tried that and now it seems dead :-(  
- it was an accident waiting to happen.

I tried the CTRL+ENTER, it sort of worked, I got a warning message about losing data, I clicked ok. It started to shut down, but it never shut off.

Now when I turn it on, it doesn't seem to start, it still seems like it's in the suspended shut-off mode. It seems like it's spinning but nothing.

Looks like I'll need a trip to Best Buy . . .
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
hexemes - would it make a difference if I pressed CTRL+CLICK instead of CTRL+ENTER?

nobus - l looked at the scannow link, looks good, but I'm dead right now. thanks.
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nobusCommented:
does it not start again?   switch the power off on the back, and on again after 20 sec..
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
no, it won't start. The power comes on, it starts humming / spinning, but nothing. Screen is black, no hint of life. I checked the monitor it's still plugged in, I get a DELL logo comes up, but when the computer turns on - blackout.

Next to the power button / light is a "disk spinning" light. It comes on and stays on.
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nobusCommented:
i suggest testing with the minimum setup - disconnect also all peripherals and network cables :
motherboard + cpu + 1 ram stick, video card, power supply
on boot, can you enter the bios? does it black screen ?
if NO it is one of the connected, swap ram, Power supply, video card - leaving only motherboard and cpu
if Yes, add devices till the problem shows

you can also check the motherboard for bad capacitors as shown here :   www.badcaps.net
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Nancy McCulloughCommented:
I see you have a remote desktop connection. In a case like this, you need to be logged out of this connection on both active computers before you attempt a shut down. This difficulty in shutting down is a built-in precaution to protect you from losing data at one end of the connection or the other.

Microsoft website says:

1.Right-click the taskbar, and then click Properties.
2.Click the Start Menu tab.
3.The option for Classic Start menu should be selected. Click Customize.
4.Under Advanced Start menu options, click to select the Display Log Off check box, click OK, and then click OK.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303070/en-us


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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
nobus - thanks. I could probably do that, I'd have to set up shop on the dining room table and then do basic troubleshooting. I've done some work on the inside of a couple of desktops at home, so can tackle this with some EE help.

cityqat - how did you know I have RDC? Yes, that seems to be an issue. I have an older Dell at home and RDC works great - I RDC into it each day from work, works fine. Right before my disaster I could RDC from Dell to IBM NetVista(now dead) but not vice versa.

All:
What's your guess - the HD is hosed? the OS is hosed? can it be cleaned up?

I have a lot of valuable data on the machine, and my son (12th grade) has all his school work (plus his iPod stuff).

If I do all this troubleshooting, I'm not sure what I am looking for, and how would I know what ultimately is the issue? I know you don't have the answer, but I'm thinking maybe I should just buy a new HD, set it up with the OS, and then pray I can get the data off the current messed up HD.

This is the 2nd major HD failure I've had in 3 months . . . . so very frustrated. On the current dead machine, about 3 years ago the master went bad, I installed a new master, connected the old master as a slave and saved my data.

So at this point I am debating about troubleshooting as nobus suggested or getting a new HD for my master.

Thanks for all the help.
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nobusCommented:
>>  What's your guess   <<  exactly; we can only guess; that is why i suggest tot est out the issue
in any case, make a backup first of the data !
check if you can boot from a cd; then use this one to boot from :
ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V5.1.0CD-2006-12-30-EN.iso
it supports usb disks, so you can easily copy your data to an external disk
then - test your ram and disk; one of the best tools is ubcd : http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
which contains all the diags you need for ram, disk and much more
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
nobus - sounds good, thanks. Most of what you are saying is over my head, but I'm game to give it a try.

>>make a backup first of the data !
 - how would I do that? by removing the HD and setting it up as an external drive?

>>check if you can boot from a cd;
 - that sounds like a good idea. So I copy the file to a CD, then stick it in  the computer and it will boot from it? If so, then I could hopefully snatch my data, then work through the issues?

At this point, however, I need the data more than the machine. So that's going to be my focus, can you advise on t hat? Sorry if that's taking this in a different direction.



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Mc7400Commented:
Before doing the above suggestions try to reset the BIOS by the jumper on motherboard or remove the battery for few sec. It may helps.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Mc7400 - ok, I'm game, but

>>reset the BIOS by the jumper on motherboard
    - Ok, this is deep for me, but I found this for resetting BIOS, http://forums.driverguide.com/showthread.php?t=655

      and this for motherboard battery: http://www.pctechbytes.com/computer/article-21.html

What do you think?

Sounds like removing the battery might be easier . . . but I don't know where it is . . . can research that.
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Mc7400Commented:
Yes the battery is much easier, the battery looks like watch battery, gently remove it,  wait, then back, when you start the PC it will say that the BIOS corrupted, don't worry just enter the BIOS by the suggested key then exit it with save, you don't need to do anything in BIOS at the moment.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
ok, I'll give it a try . . . leaving work now, thanks.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Good news !

I set up shop in the dining room, did a little vacuuming inside and outside, re-seated the video card, and voila, the PC booted up !

I am now copying data to an external drive, that will some time. I'll post updates but I got my data, whew !

I also saw the motherboard battery, that was easy to find and I never knew about that.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Bad news !

now I'm back to where I started from:

PC won't shut down. I tried normal shutdown, then on command line - nothing.

Then I tried the hard shut down: CTRL+ALT+DEL, then press CTRL+ENTER and the system went black, plus the system tried to shut down but just spins . . . .

So maybe I shouldn't do that . . . keeps hosing me . . .

I removed the motherboard battery, cleaned it (with eraser), put back in, still won't boot.

Moving on to BIOS tips . . .
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Mc7400Commented:
nobos had suggested running sfc /scannow, have you did that?

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Mc7400Commented:
>the system tried to shut down but just spins
If the system show logout and close windows then it become black screen then it is the power supply.
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Mc7400Commented:
Change the power supply
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
mc7400 - no did not try sfc /scannow, if it comes back up I will try that.

>>then it is the power supply.
  - ok, not sure what is the power supply, is it replaceable?

I read about taking the motherboard battery out for 2+ hours, so I'll try that.

Thanks for following up.
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Mc7400Commented:
Just look where you plug in the power cord, that box which is fixed with 4 screws
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/b2b/3/511/70674/sell_atx_power_supply.html
or just google power supply image.

Welcome

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nobusCommented:
you asked : how do i backup the data - i posted it; READ my post please !
you asked how to make the boot cd ? youdo NOT copy it to cd; you use an ISO burning tool, or image burning tool; in Nero found under backup section
for troubleshooting your problem; i also posted that in my 1st POST !
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
nobus, I did read your post about backing up data and do appreciate the help and hanging with me.

To clarify, you said "make a backup first of the data !", so since you said "first backup the data", I'm thinking "Well, how do I do that if the computer doesn't even turn on". So that's why I asked "how would I do that? by removing the HD and setting it up as an external drive?" So I was following your advice just didn't understand the steps.

Regarding the "boot cd", in your 5th post you said >>check if you can boot from a cd; then use this one to boot from : (etc.) so that's why I said in 22942532: " that sounds like a good idea. So I copy the file to a CD, then stick it in  the computer and it will boot from it? If so, then I could hopefully snatch my data, then work through the issues?"

So again, I was interested in your suggestion but needed to clarify my understanding of what I was supposed to do.

btw, what the heck does this mean: "in Nero found under backup section for troubleshooting your problem" ?

you said you posted this in your 1st POST, but here are you posts:
1. possibly even running sfc /scannow from the run box will help
2. here the site : http://www.updatexp.com/scannow-sfc.html
3. does it not start again?   switch the power off on the back, and on again after 20 sec..

anyway, I do appreciate the help.

I'm definitely an "intern" when it comes to taking about PC's and messing with BIOS / CMOS / booting from CD, etc.

I want to respect your time as well.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Update:

Put motherboard battery back in and it booted up straight away !

I then tried chkdsk: it would not execute chkdsk -f, it wouldn't do that because of a "Chkdsk cannot run because the volume is in use by another process..

I then entered chkdsk thinking it would give me the parameters and it just ran. It got through 2 of 3 steps then died because of being run in "read-only".

I then was able to shut down the system via DOS, shutdown -s (that's all I entered, then a nice dialog box popped up saying it was going to shut down in 27s, 26s, etc.

I have re-booted the PC a couple of times. So it looks like it's "working", or "workable", but there is definitely an issue that I'd like to get solved.

Still the PC won't shut down normally, I have to shut down from DOS.

and I can't run chckdsk /F.

Thanks all for sticking with this.

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Mc7400Commented:
Regarding chkdsk you can use windows scandisk instead, right click on c: drive > properties > tools > error checking > select the two options > click yes, then restart the system it will so that, but don't think it has this problem because you ware able to copy your data already.

The problem is either power supply or mother board, so if you can borrow power supply and check it.
Have you checked the hard button, dose it work properly now.

Regarding to nobus last post, I think his intention to post that to someone else, so you can ignore it.
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nobusCommented:
ok - here some answers; seems i was a bit short (or thinking you know as much as i do) - sorry for that.
to create the knoppix cd (which is an ISO file) you must copy it with the appropriate burning tool, which is an image burning tool,(as iposted : you use an ISO burning tool, or image burning tool; in Nero found under backup section )
then you boot from the CD
you do not need to remove your drive; BUT YOU NEED a drive to copy your data too, and THAT would be the external one.    i hope this is clear ?  again, sorry for the (too short) answer
and about my 1st post - i meant this one :  ID:22938485

i hope i make more sense now ?
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Mc7400 -
>>c: drive > properties > tools > error checking > select the two options > click yes
 - ok, I've done defrag and disk cleanup, but never this, so that's a nice tip for me.

>>The problem is either power supply or mother board
 - power supply looks simple enough, once I get my hands on one.
 - motherboard sounds nasty . . .
 - haven't tried hard boot yet, can't try until tonight.
     - also, this is a good tip you gave from above: >>go to start > sittings > control panel > power options, then press advanced tab, select shutdown from the drop down menu.
 
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Mc7400Commented:
If you can borrow a power supply and see, if it wouldn't work then you may get help from local technician to change motherboard
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
nobus, no worries, thanks for the explanation.

re:
>>to create the knoppix cd (which is an ISO file) you must copy it with the appropriate burning tool
  - ok, thanks for the clarification

>>BUT YOU NEED a drive to copy your data too, and THAT would be the external one.
  - luckily it booted up last night so the first thing I did was backup to external drive.

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nobusCommented:
is everything ok then ?
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Update:

Stability !

I ran chkdsk via C:\ drive, properties, tools, error-checking (so it scheduled it on the next re-boot, worked great).

I also changed power options so that pressing power button (for 5 s) turns off, not standby.

the PC then reboots fine and so far reliably (knock on wood, ha ha).

So,
- I have my data,
- PC seems stable

- still it won't shutdown normally, not even by DOS command.

So I will close this out, thanks so much for the tips and sticking with me.

What do you of just wiping the machine and starting over? Do you think that is a good idea? Mc7400 thinks it might be power supply or motherboard.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
I have not done the scannow, maybe that would also be good . . . do you think defrag and disk cleanup might address my issue (that it won't shut down normally)?

Thanks again.
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Mc7400Commented:
defrag, disk cleanup will not do, but sfc may.

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nobusCommented:
well; with such strange issues, i tend to test first my basics, eg ram and disk
then i check the OS, with different tools, chkdsk, sfc, repair install
if still problems, i do a fresh install (speeds up the system too)
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Ok, thanks again.

I think I will

- try scannow
- get a decent backup / RAID system, home-style
- work towards a fresh install

Will try scannow over the weekend and let you know, then can close this out.

Help is much appreciated, I learn a lot and save bucks - double bonus.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
Final update:

I ran sfc /scannow, that was uneventful.

Still the PC won't shut down, even with DOS command. But shutting down with power button and re-booting seems fine, so things seem ok, plus my data is safe, thank God.

Ok, thanks again.
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Alaska CowboyAuthor Commented:
system stablized from all the suggestions and work.
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nobusCommented:
>>   ran sfc /scannow, that was uneventful.  <<  it never reports errors, but does replace files !
 
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