Why doesn't MB BIOS see Other components?

Hi,

I thought I resovled this question 6 hours ago, but I was wrong.  Since then, I have been able to get into the BIOS, but it (the BIOS) does not recognize the HDD or the 2  optical drives.  It does see the floppy drive and IT will actually boot to floppy, But nothing else is seen by this system.  The Opticals are physically functioning, but are not showing in the BIOS

I have tried several different cables and several different HDDs(That I know are good, right out of a new box) and several different sticks of RAM.  Having said that, I would assume that something is not right5 within the BIOS, but 6 hours later I have not found it.  Then again, I am NOT the Expert here.  For sure!  

If I let it boot without taking it into the BIOS, I get the message, "Disk Boot failed: Insert System disk and Restart"  I have been in an endless loop.  What I have done is Put A new MOBO, RAM and CPU.  I left the PSU and all other components because the tested out OK.  I also creplaced all cables and fans.  No fans are plugged in yet.

SO, THE QUESTION IS:
What can I do to make this system see the 3 IDE components on this system and why are they not being seen?  What am I doing wrong andwhat am I missing?  

Thank You,

Donnie616

PS--- One more thing is that these hardware items not being seen by the system is the same thing that was happening on the MB that I am replacing.  EXACTLY.  That is the reason I am replacing them. in the 1st place.  With that in mind, I am wondering, could this have someting to do with faulty electronics in the CASE itself that is causing these same componets to fail twiice? THE CASE is the common denominater here.  Am I crazy to be thinking that?  The USB front ports have been broken beyond ny ability to repair.  there is nothing but a big hole where the 2 USB ports were. I just have a weird feeling about that. I hope that info is helpful to you all.
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Donnie616Asked:
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_Commented:
Take the mobo out of the case and place it on some newspaper or cardboard.
With just 1 stick of ram, the cpu, video card and power supply connected, hook 1 IDE drive at a time up, and with a small screwdriver jump the Power On pins (needs just a 1 second touch)
Does it see the drives that way?
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Thank You so much coral   I will have to do that in the AM   I am just too tired to do that now.  i hope you do not mind.  i will do it by mid-morning and give you a response then.

thank you again.

Donnie616
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_Commented:
Not a problem. I won't make it back until about this time tomorrow night, but others should be hanging around.   : )
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_Commented:
Forgot, if it does see the drives one at a time, then try pairs, then all three again.

If no joy doing it this way. most likely the bios or mobo is going bad.
Also look at the caps (round tin-can thingies) for buldging tops or gunk leaking out of them.
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nobusCommented:
what disk are you using? ide or sata ?
strangely, i can't find your mobo here : http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/support/download.php
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Mc7400Commented:
If you tried each component alone as coral suggested and it works, if you make sure that the jumpers are set correctly one as mater one as slave and the master is bootable and didn't work, then it might be an issue of mixing an old HDD/CDD and a new one, then try one device connected to one IDE, make sure to put the jumpers to stand alone or master. If this is the problem then you can't mix them, no way.
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Sorry Nobus, it is K8M800 micro AM2.  I am using IDE disks.

I am going to try out the suggestions that appear that they will take some time

be back later to report results.   Thank you all as I am getting desperate.

donnie616
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nobusCommented:
check if one drive is set to master, and connect only that; verify it in the bios
if it is seen, add another one, set to slave, and check again
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Will Do that again. I have done that several times already, but I may get a different result this time.  I HOPE. did not expect to be back so soon, but before I took the drastic measure of pulling it out of the case, I wanted to check here.
Thanks
d616
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nobusCommented:
do you have the old mobo ? you can also test with that
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Mc7400Commented:
What HDD/CDD you have? capacity/ brand?

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Donnie616Author Commented:
yes - I was just thinking of that.  please do not be offended and abandon me if I do not return for a few hours.  All this is going to take a lot of time. The only reason i happen to be back so soon s a new development came from a hint you threw at me. ( i am not supposed to be up and down my stairs 40 times per day because I have a moderately severe b=heart ailment, but here I am again.)  yesterday I was up and down between broken PC and upstairs PC all day long.

Here is what happened  just now.  I plugged in a borrowed sata 1 hdd  from anorher machine to test it.  It actually tried to boot into XP.  What JOY!!  It is also seen in the BIOS.  does that mean the MB is OK? (fingers are crossed)  If I were to plug in a sata dvd, I would theoretically have a working computer.  Am I correct?  There are only 2 Sata ports, so the owner would have to forego his 2nd optical., if I have to go that route.  I would need the  Sata optical drive to install windows anyway if we cannot resole the IDE thing.

However I am not the kind of person that can let this IDE issue go without fixing it, regardless of the Sata situation.  I need to fix the ide issue.  I am getting more certain that it just a tiny thing we are missing.  Like a cable, a jumper,  a BIOS setting etc.  I just know it!  2 IDE ports are very unlikely to be bad on a new board.  Especially when 2 out of the 3 were at one time in working order. That was at some point yesterday when I acually closed the question and had to RE-ASK it hiours later because they stopped showing up.  it was not until I tried to plug in the 3rd one that they ALL disappeared from sight, never to return, and re-incarnating the question.

The Sata fix is not solving the original issue.  I must solve that 1st.   What are we not seeing.?  I wish you were here.  Be back sooner than i care to so I can check you comments.

thanks.   I am very happy that at least we have a "last resort" option.

Thanks for sticking with me.

Donnie616

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nobusCommented:
i was not able to download the manual for your mobo, but look in it, and check the settings for ide and SAta.
sata can be enhanced, or compatible, or ide compatible, - so try these
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Donnie616Author Commented:
sorry Mv7400,  did not see your post.  I have several brands of HDD.  used and new  i am right now trying a WD 80 GB ide. It actually has the OS on it that I installed on this machine Sundayt o the original  MB.  

The drive thought was bad(in the 1st question you answered here, was a WD 60GB IDE. ( It may now be bad after all, because it will not show after showing for a few boots yesterday, then dissppearing again( causing me to re-write this question that you already solved.)  The SATA drive that is being seen now is a Hitachi 160GB from another PC that I can take if I need to.   I have a few new Maxtor 160 GBs up to 500GBs brand new.  That would end up being too expensive for the owner. IF THEY Would even be seen.  I have tried NEW drives to no avaiol.

DVD and the DVD-RW are Lite-ON , 2004 model year.  They were working just fine one week ago, actually, earliar this week.  They still function, but BIOS does not find them.  I Hope that helps you experts. I have to get away from this keybord. Will be back.

thank you as well, for being there.

donnie
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Mc7400Commented:
The devices you have are ok, there is no issue to mix them, only try to disable sata from BIOS
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Mc7400Commented:
The other thing is the power supply dose it have high wattage to provide sufficient power to all of your devices?
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Donnie616Author Commented:
OK Folks.  I am being played a cruel joke on me.  To answer your questions--Yes PSU has 450 Watts and nothing has changed regarding that.

Sorry but right now I cannot disable Sata drive.  Here is why

                                                   WHAT I JUST DID:
1.   I had already attached the SATA HDD. (From a completely different machine)
2.   I attached A BRAND NEW DVD-RW to the 2ndary IDE connector(Same cable)
3.   I left the problem IDE HDD attached,  primary IDE port as Master., same cable.
    That is all that is attached right now.


                                                   RESULTS FROM ABOVE:                                                          
1.   The used  (newly attached)SATA 160 hdd booted into safe mode.  as it slowly loaded;
2.   The problem IDE 80GB  hdd  on primary master loaded perfectly fine. from
3.   The NEW IDE  DVD_RW Loaded and shows in my computer, never mind the BIOS.

What in the living crap is going on here?  Am I going to have to replace every single major piece of hardware and literally build another PC?   What does it look like is going on fellows?
                                                      BOTTOM LINE:
I now have a crazily working computer that I would like to install a new windows on the original problem  HDD.  But when I pull out the SATA, will it disappear again?  That is my fear.  So what is the sense of installing XP if the drive won;t show up?  Please guys.  I am really confused now even though things are looking up.  

I now have 2 hard drive s in My Computer and I do not know what it was that I did to make 3 major components suddenly appear tgether.  what was that common Denominator.  I explained what I did, hopefully one of you can see wht it was that changed things.

I have some more things to try and I will be back to see your responses.  I have to because I sure do not know what to do.
Donnie


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Donnie616Author Commented:
Hi folks THIS IS IMPORTANT (and strange)

I pulled  the SATA hdd and restarted and the results were the same old nothing shows up garbage.

What are my options here?
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Mc7400Commented:
Attach sata again, and give result
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Gentlemen, are you ready?  I just left the BIOS screen downstairs showing:

1.   The SATA HDD this is the (system drive in device manager.)    Disk from another PC
2.   The Primary Master Hdd--IDE      original disk
3.   The Pimary Slave Hdd--IDE         disk from another PC
4.   The 2ndary Master DVD-RW IDE  Original
5.   The 2ndary Slave DVD-Rom IDE   Original
THEY ALL FUNCTION CORRECTLY

The SATA drive is the one that boots BUT ONLY IN SAFE MODE.  Will not boot in normal mode. Otherwise, back to nothingness.  And rebooting loop.
                                                                 
                                                          SOME THINGS NOTED:
When the SATA is pulled, the other 4 drives disappear from the BIOS, as well.
The time was set incorrectly to 24 hours ago.
All 3 HDDs have a copy of WINXP PRO installed.
the 80GB Ide hdd from another PC is marked as active.  
The SATA HDD is marked System.
I have an identical board as this on another machine with many common components with the 2 BIOs' pulled up together.  There is nothing different and the other MB boots up like lightning.( No Sata drives)

So, me not being an expert, I can only guess that there is a deep co9nnection betwen the SATA and IDE mechanisms on this board. My ideal situation would be to boot into the original 60GB hdd WinXP already on it. But that does not look like it wants to happen.  My 2nd choice would be to use the SATA drive, Format it and Iinstall  XP anew.

Other than that, I need to ask you guys to come up with some options to fix the strange IDE (or lack thereof) situation.  The info I just provided is all I can offer you so that you can offer me options in return.  I have nothing left.  Nothing.  I am drained.

ALL COMPONENTS ARE WORKING, JUST HAPPEN TO BE UNDER THEIR OWN TERMS.  What are some of my options?   I am so ready to format/reinstall.  I think we are getting close..

And thank you all so much, in advance.

donnie
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Mc7400Commented:
The system is booting windows because it was installed for the other MB, you have to reinstall it forr this MB

Haven't read your notes yet, will follow soon...
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Mc7400Commented:
>The system is booting windows
The system is not booting windows
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Mc7400Commented:

>The time was set incorrectly to 24 hours ago
This mean the battery is dead, which keep the CMOS data,

Now my suggestion to remove the sata and remove the battery, remove the power cord, for few minutes, then start without the battery and without sata, if bios can see the drives then you have to reinstall windows, as told you earlier (w1nd0w$ xp has problem when changing MBs)  
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Mc7400Commented:
Enter BIOS Setup > select Integrated Peripherals > select VIA OnChip IDE Device > OnChip SATA (disable) it

final  suggestune to update the BIOS, if you haven't done that before then tell me so further explications will be posted before you kill MB.

The file:  http://www.biostar.com.tw/utility/biosdl.php?BID=1056
And this program: http://download.biostar.com.tw/upload/Driver/Software/T_Utility/Flash.exe

From this site:
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/mb/bios.php?S_ID=141

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Donnie616Author Commented:
OK Thanks I Will do as you say, but now there is more craziness happening which makes me afraid to give this thing back to the owner even after it is fixed .

Please listen to this.  I removed the Primary Master disk and I lost ALL the IDEs again.  Just SATA was left.  UNREAL!!
I put it back it and removed The primary Slave.  All the 3 drives plus tghe SATA came back..
It seems to like the 1st HDD better than  others.
When I unhook both IDE HDDs, I am left with the SATA and 2 IDE optical drives.  I could live with that if I had to.

 Do you think that setup will work permanently if I do it?  You might remember that this PC is very fickle and likes to change its mind, from one boot to the next.

Truthfully I am ready to install windows on this sata drive and hope the optcals continue to be seen by the system.  i do not need the info on the HDD except the owner does not need anywhere near 160GB of space.  What do you thinlk? it is still early enough for me.  Shoulld I do it?

Thanks,   Donnie
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Mc7400Commented:
try to disable sata before other suggestions, have you removed the battery?

1st remove the battery it was DEAD, never put it again, buy a new one
2nd disable sata
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Mc7400--I did not see your post about the 3 links for me.  we were typing at the same time. I have already disabled the SATA in the BIOS earlier today. I  tried many different physicaL configs.  Again No change, so I put it back.  It did no good to disable it because the other drrives disappear whether enabled or Disabled.
 So I thought it best to leave it and use the SATA as the main drive.  Windows is installing on it right now.  10 minutes left.  I will change the battery as soon as it is finished .

No I have not updated the Bios yet.  I have downloaded your files and they are on a USB ready for instructions. Please be aware I have a drivers disk with the MB.  When the PC was in SAFE MODE, the Device Manager Showed only the Normal Audio and Video drivers in need of installation.

Thank you again

D616
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Mc7400Commented:
If you want to keep sata enabled then make sata mode (IDE), give it a try.

In setup menu there should be Upgrade BIOS option as shown in the attached file, it is safer than other methods.


CMOS.GIF
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Ok Mc-- One of the 1st things I did was check that out.   SATA mode is IDE by default.  I tried both ways.

It is not a matter of if I want to keep SATA.  I will try to do whatever YOU say is best.  Fior now, SATA is the ONLY way that is working for Hard drives.  Maybe the primary IDE connector is not working all the time.  If so, I can do without it I guess. The owner will never know.  

Windows is installed on the SATA and everything else seems good.  I need to install drivers from the disk. would like to get to the bottom of the IDE problem, but I can live with the way it is. I do not want any problems in the future either.

So what DO YOU think I should do?

ONE NOTE.  The reason I had to buy this new MB in the 1st place was because I broke the battery Retainer ring when I tried to remove the battery on the old original  Biostar MB.  They are made of flimsy plastic and not like normal easy ones to remove.  I will le my wife do it this time.

Thanks

D616

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Donnie616Author Commented:
I am a little afraid to upgrade the Bios.  might need some assistance

thanks
D
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Mc7400Commented:
If it works this way, I think you don't need an extra pain. Leave it as it is

For the battery removal, it is very simple check this: http://www.infopackets.com/graphics/cmos+battery.gif
very gentle push the lever into left of the picture.
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Donnie616Author Commented:
I fixed it sir.  how many times have I said it was something small that we were missing.

It was a little something called  "VIA PATA IDE Driver Package".  After installing that driver, I attached 4 different IDE HDDs onto the 2 IDE  mixed and matched connectors and they all showed up.  All it needed were some Motherboard drivers.  Can you believe how blind we all were?  A silly little driver Package.

System is "GO" with the 60GB HDD I wanted to use.  I was ready to use the SATA because it was working, but then I saw that driver and I knew I had found the REAL fix.   I will rest, wait for some comments and give points out tomorrow.  I fixed it but you guys deserve the credit.

I hope i have no further complications, so as to force me to ask another question.

For you Information, Mc7400, That battery is really easy to get out.  Biostar batteries ARE NOT.  They are different and the plastic retainer will easily snap.  They are way harder to get off than the one you show. Please trust me on that and remember it when you come across one in the future.  they aARE NOT as easy as you might think. But thanks anyway, you are a great expert to deal with by your tendency to no9t give up0 so easily.
 

Til tomorrow, Thnks again,

Donnie616
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_Commented:
WOW !  That was a major tail-chaser.   : /
*Nice job* to both of you for working it out.   : )
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Mc7400Commented:
Donnie,
You are most welcome as a colleague, please don't forget you are my Senior I'm new here.

Regards,

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Donnie616Author Commented:
NEW has nothing to do with knowledge or ability  Please keep an eye out for me. I always get myself in trouble. thank you all.  this was a tough one.

Coral, you missed a very busy day.  thanks for coming back to check.

The system is running absolutely fantastic, stress tested, etc.  Still keeping my fingers crossed.
The K8M800 Micro AM2 is a very good budget board for the price.  REALLY!!  And it is one of the rare, somewhat modernized still with 2 IDEs. A good replacement board, although lacking in features. I have used several, but never did I have this problem.

Was it the MB?---Was it the Case?--- WAS it the PSU? ---Was it the BIOS---and on and on and on.  WOW!! is all I can say, besides Thank you.
Next for the points


Thank you ALL again

Donnie616
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Since I found the fix partially myself the guidance recieved  and persistence in helping me, will have to factor in.  They will be key in the point dispersal.

D616
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Donnie616Author Commented:
Thanks for following so tight.  TWICE!

Donnie
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Mc7400Commented:
>Was it the MB?---Was it the Case?--- WAS it the PSU? ---Was it the BIOS
No it was the user:)

BTW, I think the driver has done something like resetting the BIOS, or such work around of a bug, so updating the BIOS is recommended, but of course not for this one, leave it.
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Donnie616Author Commented:
That hurt!!  have a nice weekend

Donnie
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_Commented:
Thank you much.   : )

>> I always get myself in trouble.

Welcome to the club.   : D
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