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Dual booting WinXP 64 and WinXP 32

Posted on 2008-11-18
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Experts,

I want to dual boot WinXP 64 (already installed) and WinXP 32 (not yet installed), using BootIt NG.  

The system is an x64-based PC with single 300GB SAS disk, configured as a 276GB primary C: partition and a 10GB recovery partition.

I want a primary partition for each OS and a separate primary partition for data, to be shared by all OS's.

One concern is a bidirectional firewall for XP64.  For example, ZoneAlarm will not work on 64-bit OS's, and the Windows firewall is notoriously lax on outbound traffic.  Any ideas on rigorously controlling XP64 outbound traffic?

XP32 will be the primary means for internet access, because of the readily available and excellent firewall/anti-virus software, so it's enough to lock out XP64 from getting internet access.

What's a good way to set this up with BootIt NG?

Thanks.

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Question by:Tx74Qp853mR
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by:garycase
ID: 22992311
First step:  Buy and install Boot-It and get the disk organized as you'd like.

(a)  Create a bootable CD (or floppy)

(b)  Boot to Boot-It, but on this first boot select CANCEL at the first prompt, then OK (don't install it yet).   Now click on Partition Work; highlight the large x64 partition; and click on ReSize.   ReSize the partition to the size you want for your x64 OS partition (typically 40 or 50GB should be PLENTY for XP x64 ... but you may need to leave it larger for now if you have a lot of data on the partition).

(c)  When that's done, reboot to Boot-It and this time let it install on the hard drive -- selecting the default choices [Yes, you want to allow more than 4 primary partitions; Yes, you want it to install to its own partition; and Yes, you want it to choose that partition]

(d)  Now boot to Maintenance Mode; select Partition Work; and create two new partitions:  one called XPx32 (whatever size you want -- 30GB should be plenty); and one perhaps called MyData (using the rest of the free space).   Make these both NTFS -- no need to do anything else with them yet.

(e)  You should already have a boot item for your XP x64 system.  Go to Boot Edit and (if desired) change the name to what you'd like it to say (The "Identity"); and on the right side be sure HD0 reflects the XPx64 partition in position 0 and MyData in position 1.   You can "Clear" any other entries that are shown.   Exit out of this with OK - OK; and then click on Reboot.   When you get the boot menu, select your XPx64 item (just highlight it and press Enter) and confirm that x64 boots okay [You'll probably need to reboot one time -- it will think the disk changed].    While in XP format the new data partition ... and if you have data on C: you want to move to it, go ahead and do that [You may also want to move My Documents].

At this point you should be able to boot to the Boot-It boot menu, and select XP x64, and the system should work well.   You also have your common data partition already set up in x64.

... Now you're ready to install XP x32 :-)    But first, get everything set up to this point.

Note:  I believe Boot-It will automatically recognize the appropriate disk access mode; but if everything doesn't work as detailed above, you may have to check the SATA-AHCI box in Settings.   But I would not change any of these settings unless it can't properly access your disk.
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by:sarpcakir
ID: 22992361
First boot with BootIT NG. On it's desktop click Partition Work (or you can also do this by Edit > Partitions).
Select your hard disk from there and resize it appropriately considering you also want a data partition as well.
Select the free-space entry, press Create. Choose name, size and file system (NTFS recommended) for this partition. Be sure to check Format and Multi-OS under Options. This partition will be for your WinXP 32bit. Then cerate in the remaining freespace one more partition, also NTFS recommended, for your data. Also check Format as well.
I might remind you under BootIT resizing is done with keyboard up and down keys.

Reboot and install WinXP 32 bit to the partition you created for it.

Windows should be able to dual-boot does by itself after installing, but if you want BootIT to do it, once again boot to BootIT and go to Normal Boot Menu, you should see your both operating systems listed there, select the item and click Boot, you can also add shortcut keys optionally for the desired operating system.

About the firewall issue Comodo Firewall Pro is free and works with both 32bit and 64bit Xp and is capable of locking down internet access for you or controlling the traffic without making much of a pain (no non-stop alert boxes).
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by:garycase
ID: 22992412
A couple of comments r.e. sarpcakir's note:

=>  You do NOT need to check "Multi-OS" for your new partitions ... in fact I would not.   This is only needed if you plan to install multiple OS's in the same partition (no need to do that with Boot-It => NONE of my partitions use this option).

=>  ReSizing does not require the up/down keys ... it's much easier to simply type in the new size (or adjust it with the mouse for small increments).

Just to give you an idea of what you can do, here's the boot menu from one of my systems -- every OS has its own primary partition; and they all share a data partition (except the Linux versions).


Boot-Menu.jpg
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Expert Comment

by:sarpcakir
ID: 22992420
Multi-OS is an emergency switch if you plan to install another OS in the future to that partition, if not, won't harm you, that's why I recommend this anyway.
You're correct that resize does not require to only use up/down keys.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 22997546
Thanks guys,

garycase, i noticed you have an "XP for Browsing" boot item on BootIt NG, which I assume is an XP32 used to access the internet, and I assume you've done things to secure it, and perhaps have locked out the other OS's from accessing the internet altogether (this is conjecture on my part based on the names of your boot items.)

If so, can you explain how you locked out XP64 and your other OS's from accessing the internet, and what measures you've taken to secure the "XP for Browsing"?

sarpcakir, looking at the Comodo forums it appears the 64-bit version of Comodo is a bit buggy.  Many people reporting problems with it in Vista 64.  Don't know if the same is the true with Comodo on XP 64... only a few messages on Comodo forum regarding XP64,  and most are fairly old.  Do you have personal experience with Comodo on XP 64?

To all experts, is there a proven non-buggy bidirectional firewall for WinXP 64 (not the windows firewall)?  

Kaspersky supports XP and Vista 32/64... any opinions on Kaspersky firewall?

ZoneAlarm and Norton are falling behind... ZA doesn't support 64-bit OS's, and Norton's 64-bit support is spotty.

This computer will be added to a local network, and requires that all disks and partitions on it be accessible to all other systems on the local network.  But, only the XP32 must be allowed access to the internet (via a router on the local network.)

This means the firewall used to secure XP64 must stop 100% of bidirectional internet traffic (including all Windows XP 64 outbound traffic), but allow 100% of local network traffic.

Thanks.
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by:sarpcakir
ID: 22998105
I know there are a lot of proggies probably but I personally use / recommend Comodo.  64-bit is my home computer, which I don't use as frequent as my laptop (32 bit), but still never experienced any problem under WinXP.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23000773
garycase,

I followed your instructions up to step E.  
BootIt NG (BING) is installed, and the disk is partitioned as follows:
winxp64 50g NTFS
winxp32 30g NTFS
mydata 196g NTFS
recovery 10g NTFS
bootit 8m BootIt EMBR

I have two boot items in BING:
1. winxp64
2. win2k recovery (came with system)

When I boot to the winxp64 OS there are only two visible partitions:
C: -- winxp64 partition
D: -- win2k recovery partition
From the winxp64 OS, the mydata and winxp32 partitions are NOT visible.  

From BING "Work with Partitions", when I ask for "Properties" | "Details" on either of those two partitions (mydata or winxp32), a notice pops up saying "Unable to mount the file system".  

On the other hand, BING gives me "Properties" | "Details" (the partition space used and free) on all other partitions.

How do I format the partitions (mydata and winxp32), as they are not visible inside the winxp64 OS?

As an aside, can I defrag the partitions made with BING by using the standard XP defrag?  I ask because there's a warning against using anything other than BING to rework partitions after choosing "more than 4 partitions" during BING install.  Just want to make sure this warning doesn't also apply to defrag (probably not, but better safe than sorry.)

What should I do now?

Thanks.
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by:garycase
ID: 23001250
Boot to Maintenance Mode go to Boot Edit, highlight the winxp64 entry, and click Edit.

You should see a screen similar to the following.   Note the entries under HD0 [On my example it only shows XPwO2003].

What do you see in yours?   What you WANT to have is winxp64 in entry 0, and mydata in entry 1.    If that's not what you have now, then tell me what's there.   If winxp64 is in entry 0, you can simply Clear anything else that's in 1-3 [Highlight it, then click Clear], and can add "mydata" to entry 1 by highlighting slot 1 and clicking Fill (and selecting mydata).   If winxp64 is not the first entry, tell me what's currently in each slot before changing anything [If you get this set wrong the system won't boot].

You can safely run defrag --> just do NOT use Disk Management to make any changes to the partition structure [You can use Disk Management to "look" at your structure and to change drive letters].
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23001426
garycase,

I edited the winxp64 boot item.  The winxp64 partition was in slot 0, but the mydata partition was NOT in slot 1.

I moved the mydata partition to slot 1 and cleared all other slots in the winxp64 boot item.  I then booted to winxp64 and found the mydata partition as disk F.  I quick-formatted the mydata partition and moved the data folders from the winxp64 partition (disk C) to the mydata partition (disk F).

Now I need to setup a winxp32 boot item and install the winxp32 OS into the winxp32 partition.  The winxp32 partition is still not formatted.

What should I do next?
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garycase earned 2000 total points
ID: 23001477
Create a boot item For XP x32.   The "Boot" choice should be winxp32 ... and this should automatically be positioned in slot 0 of the MBR.   I'd clear all other entries in the MBR until you get the basic installation done [Then you'll want to add mydata to slot 1 as with the x64 version].

After you've created the boot item, click on Resume, and then select the XP x32 item to boot -- and click on Boot.   You'll get a note that it's not bootable and will be asked if you want to boot from the floppy.   Don't do anything ==> just put your XP CD in the CD drive and use Ctrl-Alt-Del to reboot.   Note:  If you don't have the CD set to boot before the hard drive you'll need to change that in the BIOS unless you have a boot menu choice in the BIOS that lets you select the CD.

Now just install XP --> when you get a choice for which partition to install it to be CERTAIN that you choose the right one => you should be able to tell from the size (and it should be shown as C:).   After XP finishes installing and reboots it will wipe out the Boot-It MBR --> that's normal.   Once you have XP installed, just do a restart with the Boot-It CD in the drive, and Boot-It will offer to "re-activate Boot-It".   Let it do that ... then remove the Boot-It CD and reboot the system.   You'll now have a nice boot menu that lets you choose which OS to boot to.  You can then add your "mydata" partition to the XP x32 boot item so that OS will also see your shared data partition ... and you're basically done with the Boot-It setup.

... at that point there are a couple of tweaks you'll probably want to do [Set up a couple of image sets and enable BootNow support] ... but first get your XPx32 set up :-)
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23021941
garycase,

I followed your suggestions.  Created a new winxp32 boot item in BING, pointing to the winxp32 partition in slot-0 of MBR.  The BIOS boot drive priority is set as: Optical, USB, Hard Disk (this computer does not have a floppy drive).  Placed WinXP32 CD in optical drive.  At the BING boot menu selected the new winxp32 boot item.  Clicked Boot.  Got the error message.  Did a Ctrl-Alt-Del to try to reboot into the winxp32 partition (from CD).

There's a problem.  The WinXP32 setup menu never comes up.  Instead the computer boots directly into WinXP64.  After this event, every time the computer is shutdown and restarted, it boots directly to WinXP64... the BING boot menu no longer appears.  WinXP32 has not been installed in the winxp32 partition.

What should I do now?
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by:garycase
ID: 23022003
Two issues ...

(1) First (and most puzzling) --> if the optical drive is ahead of the hard drive in the boot order, the XP install CD should boot no matter what the state of the hard drive ... do you not see the "Press any key to boot from CD" message that an XP installation CD generates when it boots?

(2) If you boot the system without any CD in the drive, does it now boot directly to XP x64? If so, something has wiped out the EMBR structure. Boot to the Boot-It CD and you'll be offered a "Reactivate Boot-It" option ==> just select that and it should reset the Boot-It configuration. Then you should get your normal boot menu.

But if you're not seeing the "Press any key to boot from CD" message, your system is NOT booting from the CD => are you SURE your XP installation CD is a standard (bootable) XP CD??

One other thought: You said you "... Created a new winxp32 boot item in BING, pointing to the winxp32 partition in slot-0 of MBR ..." Did you set the "Boot" choice (on the left side of the boot menu edit screen) to the winxp32 partition?? If not, that may explain how the EMBR got messed up.

For example, the "XPwO2003" partition on one of my systems is the bootable partition for one of the boot choices => here's what the boot edit screen looks like [Note that it is set as the bootable item on the left side; and the MBR is set to have that partition in slot 0]:


Boot-Edit.jpg
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23024024
garycase,

Issues 1 and 2 in your list above are handled:

1) The computer requires a key press to launch the boot menu - booting from CD now brings up the WinXP32 text-mode installer, as expected.

2) "Reactivate" resurrected BING.  The machine now boots to BING instead of directly to WinXP64.

But there's a new problem:

During WinXP32 text-mode install, there's a 0x7B stop error.  This is likely caused by a SATA RAID controller or by a SAS controller, which may require special OEM drivers are not included in WinXP32.

As you may know, WinXP32 does provide an option to install non-std mass storage drivers during the text-mode install sequence (by pressing F6).  Unfortunately the machine doesn't have a floppy drive, so I don't know how to insert the OEM driver(s) during WinXP32 text-mode install.  Also, I think the F6 driver loader only works with legacy floppy drive controllers, and not with USB floppy drives.

The machine does have a legacy floppy drive controller, but I'm not keen on installing a FDD.

Any ideas?
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by:garycase
ID: 23024162
You're right --> you need the F6 drivers.   That's why I always add a floppy to the systems I build ... if you need them ONCE they're worth the $6 - $8 they cost these days.   That is, of course, the easiest way to resolve your problem, since your motherboard has a FDD controller -- even if you just "dangle" a drive out of the case just for the install.

The alternative is to slipstream the drivers into your XP install CD => either using nLite [http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html ] or by following the directions here:  http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-559.html

... I definitely prefer the floppy :-)   [Just in case you try the wrong drivers, it's much easier to just download a different driver to a floppy;  with a slipstreamed CD you have to recreate a new CD]

In any event, you've made good progress.   All you need now is to follow my original notes r.e. how to install XP [and remember, when it's done, it will also need a "re-activation"].   You just need to either slipsteam an XP install CD or add (perhaps temporarily) a floppy drive.

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by:garycase
ID: 23024166
... by the way, whether or not F6 works with USB floppies depends on how your BIOS handles them.   If you have a USB floppy handy, you could try it => it just may work.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23031789
garycase,

I tried a couple of things:

1) Invoked the F6 loader during WinXP32 setup, and loaded the SAS controller driver via USB floppy drive -- the driver appears to load, but when XP tries to start it throws the 0x7B error.

2) Slipstreamed the SAS controller driver into a new WinXP32 ISO image, and burned a new WinXP32 CD, then ran unattended WinXP32 install from the new CD -- the driver appears to load (WinXP32 setup reports the driver loading at the bottom of the setup screen during text-mode setup), but when WinXP32 tries to start it throws the 0x7B error.

It appears the error is caused by WinXP32 not finding the SAS disk, which implies that the SAS controller driver is not loading properly.

As I mentioned in a previous post, for some unknown reason, SAS controller drivers do not appear to load properly into WinXP32 by any method other than:
1) legacy floppy drive controller
2) a copy of a properly imaged hard drive with the OS and drivers already on the image (where the SAS controller drivers on the image were put there by a legacy floppy controller).

This is a mystery, and I may have to resort to installing a legacy floppy drive.

But here's another idea: What about installing a new SATA disk on the machine and dual booting off that disk instead of the SAS disk.  Then, after WinXP32 is on the SATA disk, loading the SAS driver through device manager and using the SAS disk for data?

That may work, because WinXP32 should have the SATA drivers already on the CD.  The machine has a SATA-RAID controller and an EIDE controller (in addition to the SAS controller.)

What do you think?
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by:garycase
ID: 23036320
If the problem is indeed related to the SAS driver not being loaded via the USB floppy then using a SATA drive may indeed solve this.    But I'm surprised that the USB floppy is being accessed and yet not working for the driver install (I'd think if it wasn't going to work with F6 that it wouldn't be accessed).   Are you SURE you're using the correct drivers?
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23037431
I talked to HP workstation support (xw8600) several times on this matter, and they assure me that I'm using the correct driver.

I've tried the following drivers:

1) Intel Matrix Storage Manager Utility driver -- this is a set of four drivers for SATA-AHCI and SATA-RAID controllers (four different controllers are supported by these drivers) -- HP support originally told me to use these drivers, but it's pretty clear they are not the correct drivers, because the disk is SAS not SATA.

2) LSI SAS 8888ELP driver -- HP support told me several times this is absolutely the correct driver, (after they told me to use the above SATA drivers :)

The disk works perfectly in WinXP64, so it's not the disk, or the SAS controller.  So it must be the WinXP32 SAS controller driver -- it's either the wrong driver or it's not getting loaded properly.

The disk is reported in the WinXP64 Device Manager as:
Fujitsu MBA3300RC SCSI disk device

The SAS controller is reported as:
LSI Adapter, SAS 3000 Series, 8-port with 1068 -StorPort

The machine also has these controllers:
Intel Ultra ATA controller
Primary IDE channel
Intel SATA-RAID controller
Legacy floppy controller

Reading through other EE posts, it appears that WinXP32 does not natively support SATA, so if I try to install a SATA disk and boot WinXP32 to it, I may have the same problem I'm having now with SAS.  But in that case the Intel Matrix Storage Manager Utility driver is very likely the correct driver(s).

HP support told me they have not been able to load the WinXP32 SAS controller driver by any method other than the legacy floppy controller, which again puzzles me.

 Why doesn't it work to slipstream the driver into the WinXP32 CD, and why does the USB floppy drive work perfectly during the WinXP32 text-mode setup (i.e. the driver files are read from the floppy and are itemized in the F6 loader menu by WinXP32 text-mode setup), but then the driver does not work?

Is there a way to configure the BIOS so I can boot WinXP32 into the SAS disk (maybe using PATA emulation), then load the SAS driver using WinXP32 device manager, and finish by rebooting and setting the BIOS back to SAS mode?  

I think I know the answer -- if the SAS driver is not loading properly (or is not the correct driver), then why would PATA emulation work on the same SAS controller?

I'll talk to HP support about booting WinXP32 to a new SATA drive.  

One last point... could this issue be related to BING?
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23039347
Update...

Talked to BING support.  They say the problem is either a bad SAS controller driver, or a bad XP32 CD.  They suggest slipstreaming the driver into the XP32 CD.  I don't think it's a bad CD because I've tried different XP32 CD's and they all give the 7B stop error.

Talked to HP support again... this time they fessed up: HP doesn't know which SAS controller is integrated on the motherboard ! ! !

I called LSI and tracked the SAS controlled by the serial number on the LSI chip on the mobo.  Contrary to what HP had told me initially, it's not an LSI MegaRAID 8888ELP.  It's an LSI SAS 1068 controller.

Downloaded the LSI Logic SAS 1068X Driver from the HP website, and ran the XP32 CD setup / F6 loader again, with the new driver.  Got the 7B stop error.

Slipstreamed the LSI Logic SAS 1068X Driver into the XP32 CD.  Got the 7B stop error.

I'm out of ideas.

Any thoughts?
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23039572
Update 2...

HP doesn't provide tech support when mixing SAS and SATA drives, although the controller appears to support both protocols natively.  This frankly makes me reluctant to try the SATA option, as it would probably turn out to be an uphill battle.

An HP tech said that it's difficult to get 32 and 64 bit OS's multibooting on the same machine, but I think he was referring to the standard Windows multibooting setup... BING may be a different thing altogether.

I'm curious as to how you got all those different OS's working on the same machine.  I know that BING is designed for just that purpose, but my case clearly shows that the hardware can present a problem.  Would you care to share some details about your hardware configuration, disk controllers, etc.?
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by:garycase
ID: 23039813
"... could this issue be related to BING? " ==> No.   Absolutely not.   Once you select the XP boot partition and then boot to the XP CD BING isn't even involved in the process => you're booting to the CD; and once it "sees" the hard drive you'll be installing to the XP partition you created.   BING doesn't even come into play -- in fact, XP will (once it's installed) wipe out the BING boot sector so the system will simply boot directly to XP [That's when you'll have to boot to the BING CD again and "reactivate" Boot-It].

I'm also at a loss to explain why the drivers aren't working here.   MAYBE there really is some weird action related to how they're installed => the only way to confirm that would be to use a legacy floppy.   I'd spend a few $$ and a few minutes and stick a floppy in the system :-)    I've built several new systems this year for myself and friends, and still add floppy drives to them ... well worth the extra $6-8 if you EVER need it.   [It's also handy for capturing screen shots of BING ... which only works with floppies :-) ]

As for how I got all the OS's on my system =>  Mostly I just did exactly what I described above ... created a partition for the OS;  "booted" to it ... got the "not bootable" message ... did Ctrl-Alt-Del to boot to the installation CD; and then just installed the new OS.   Several of them wipe out the Boot-It boot sector ... but when that happens you just boot to the Boot-It CD and "reactivate" it.   Works perfectly for all Windows OS's, but the Linux variants can be a bit problematic, so I did them differently.   For those, I simply installed a different hard drive, installed Linux [Ubuntu or Kubuntu], then used BING to image the OS to another drive ... then replaced my main drive and restored the image to a partition on that drive & created a BING boot item for it.   I'm sure I could have done that directly to the main drive, but it was simple enough to simply unplug the main drive, plug in a spare, and install that way ... so I took the easiest path.   The other exception is the "XP for Browsing" system =>  I created that by simply imaging my XP Pro install and restoring it to a different partition.

In any event, they ALL work perfectly ... and I can easily image any (or all) OS's using Image Sets I created ... and if necessary (doesn't happen often) I can restore any of them within just a few minutes.

The hardware has NO bearing on the BING management of the partitions => the only case where that would be an issue would be if BING couldn't "see" the hard drive.   All BING does is maintain the EMBR and set the MBR to whatever you've detailed for the boot item for each OS [So that OS can only see the partitions you want it to].   ... but since you asked, the system that has the boot menu I posted earlier has one IDE drive and three SATA drives.   The boot drive is a 750GB SATA drive.  The other drives are 500GB (IDE), 750GB, and 1TB.

As for the comment by an HP tech that "... it's difficult to get 32 and 64 bit OS's multibooting on the same machine ..." =>  WRONG!!   They're completely independent of each other -- as long as the system supports the OS, it doesn't matter whether it's 32 bit or 64 bit.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23044298
Is it possible to install XP32 on an IDE boot disk, then from the IDE XP32 desktop create an image of the IDE XP32 partition, and restore that image to a blank partition on a SATA disk?

This requires installation of the XP32 SATA disk-controller driver from the IDE XP32 desktop, and also requires that IDE and SATA disk images be 100% compatible.

If the above conditions are true, this might work, because the IDE disk-controller drivers are native to XP32, which means there's no need to invoke the F6 installer during XP setup (the IDE disk controller drivers are already built into XP)

The idea is to create a bootable image of XP32 with built-in drivers for the SATA disk controller, and boot from the SATA disk in "production" mode, removing the IDE disk from the machine.  The IDE disk is the means to get the XP32 SATA bootable image.

Might this work?
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by:garycase
ID: 23047557
Yes, if you install XP on an IDE disk and then add the correct drivers for your other disk, you should be able to simply image it; restore it on the SATA drive; and then boot.   If the disks are installed together, you can easily confirm you have the right drivers -- XP will not be able to properly access the other disk if not.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23047566
Update...

I added a new 3.5" floppy drive on the legacy diskette controller, and checked the drive for correct operation in the WinXP64 desktop.  The diskette drive reads and writes correctly.

I then ran through all the permutations of booting from the BING WinXP32 boot item (into the winxp32 blank partition), from several different WinXP32 CDs, loading the SAS/RAID controller drivers via the F6 loader.

I tried all of the SAS/RAID controller drivers that HP has on its website, which are:
1) Intel Matrix Storage Manager driver (this is actually a SATA/RAID driver)
2) LSI MegaRAID 8888ELP driver
3) LSI SAS 8888ELP driver
4) LSI SAS 1068X driver for XP 32-bit
5) LSI SAS 1068X driver for XP 64-bit

Drivers 1-3 above appeared to load correctly but gave the 7B stop error on XP startup.
Driver 4 above gave the following error message: "symmpi.sys could not be loaded - error code 512"
Driver 5 above gave the following error message: "Lsi_sas.sys could not be loaded - error code 4"

After all the assurances from HP support that this would work, I still don't have WinXP32 installed.

HP support said that IDE, SATA, and SAS disk images are 100% compatible.  If that is correct then the idea presented in my previous post may have a reasonable chance of working.  That is, booting to an IDE disk and installing XP32 on it, then loading the SAS and SATA disk controller drivers on the IDE XP32, imaging the IDE partition, and restoring the IDE image to a blank partition on the SAS disk.

There may be a sticking point, which is that XP apparently stores the GUID of the hard-drive where it's installed, somewhere in the registry, so if that disk image is then copied to another hard-drive there may be a problem with XP booting properly from the new disk, as the GUIDs in the registry and the new disk will not match.

Any thoughts?

Happy Thanksgiving !
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by:garycase
ID: 23047630
I've restored MANY images to different disks with no problem ... I don't think that's an issue.   Until I got really comfortable with the Boot-It "re-activation" necessary after many OS installs (it can be unnerving ... thinking you've wiped out all your other partitions) I used to install new OS's on a small extra drive I'd pop in for the purpose;  then image them to a 2nd drive; replace the main drive; and then restore the image where I wanted it.   NEVER had a problem with this approach.   I've also restored ALL of my OS's to a new, larger drive (changed from a 320 to a 750 a year or so ago) ... and, again, no problem.   The only thing you'll probably see is that when you boot to XP it will give you a "found new hardware" note and indicate it needs to reboot to use it correctly => you just reboot and all's well.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23048261
Any chance you can provide a detailed walk-through for installing XP32 on an IDE boot disk, then installing the necessary SAS/SATA controller drivers via the XP32 dekstop, then imaging the IDE XP32 partition using BING, and restoring it on a target disk (SAS or SATA)?

In my case, I would need to restore the IDE XP32 partition to the blank SAS "winxp32" partition, without damaging the SAS "winxp64" partition or the SAS "mydata" or "recovery" partitions.

I've never done this before, so it would help tremendously if I had an outline of the required steps.
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by:garycase
ID: 23056737
It's really very simple ...

(a)  Disconnect your SATA/SAS drive and install JUST an IDE drive in the system ... then boot to the XP install CD and install XP.  [No need to install Boot-It on that disk]

(b)  There are a variety of ways to now capture an image of the new install.   One fairly easy way is to just put the image on the same disk you just installed on =>  

     (1)  Boot to the Boot-It CD [CANCEL, then OK, then Partition Work];  highlight the partition, ReSize it to a relatively small size (8GB should work well)
     (2)  Reboot to XP twice [It will "think" the drive changed since it's a different size.   On the 2nd boot, go to Disk Management and create a 2nd partition in the newly freed space on the disk ... just do a quick format.
     (3)  Boot to the Boot-It cd [CANCEL, then OK, then Partition Work];  highlight the 1st (XP) partition; click Image - Create Image ... then (with the "Paste Pending ..." message showing) select the 2nd partition and click Paste.   This will store an image of the XP partition in the 2nd partition ... just call it NewXP  (or any 8-character name you choose).

(c)  NOW you've got a fresh install of XP safely "tucked away" in an image ... so you can shut down; add a SAS disk; and reboot to XP.   This is where you'll need to "experiment" a bit to find exactly which drivers will let you "see" the SAS disk okay.   Once you succeed at this [Note if you "mess up" the XP install, you can quickly restore it from the "NewXP" image you just created] you need to repeat the imaging steps above -- this time call the image XPwSAS

(d)  Now you simply reset the boot order to boot from your SAS disk (the one with Boot-It installed already; and then, from Boot-It's Partition Work screen, just select the IDE disk, highlight the 2nd partition; click on Image - Restore from File;  select the XPwSAS image; then (with the "Paste Pending ..." message showing) select the SAS Disk (probably HD 0) and highlight the "winxp32" partition ... and click Paste.   When that finishes, XP should boot (assuming you have a boot item for it).   Note that the size of the partition will only be 8GB ... you can simply "ReSize" it once all is well [the ReSize operation to make it larger is VERY quick -- just a few seconds].
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23057647
Update...

After all the knocking about of the last few days... success !

The issue was simple, really... I needed to format the winxp32 partition *before* installing XP32 on it.  Here's how I did it:

From BING maintenance, edit the WinXP64 boot item, add the winxp32 partition in slot 3 (the 4th slot) of the MBR.  Boot to XP64.  The winxp32 partition is now visible from the XP64 desktop.  Quick format the winxp32 partition from the XP64 desktop.

Now, boot to BING, choose the WinXP32 boot item, click Boot, get the BING non-bootable partition error message, Ctrl-Alt-Del to boot from the XP32 CD, install XP32 into the winxp32 partition.  Done.

To ease the installation I used a slipstreamed XP32 CD containing the HP SAS-SATA controllers OEM drivers, so I didn't have to use the F6 loader during XP32 text-mode setup.

A few devices didn't get drivers, including gigabit nic, integrated audio, and graphics card, but those aren't critical to the OS install.  I slipstreamed *all* the OEM drivers to a new XP32 CD and reinstalled.

Oddly, I had to edit the boot.ini files on both the XP32 and XP64 partitions, because somehow they both ended up with multi-boot configurations (XP 32 and 64 on both), and the boot.ini partition indexes also got messed up, but after deleting the multi-boot configs and resetting the indexes to 1, everything boots as expected.

I'll try the IDE imaging method you describe, but I want to award you the points for the BING question now, as your help was pivotal to the BING solution, and very much appreciated !

If I run into problems with IDE imaging, I'll start a new question.
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by:garycase
ID: 23057776
"... somehow they both ended up with multi-boot configurations (XP 32 and 64 on both ..." ==>  I suspect you forgot to remove the winxp32 partition from XP64's MBR before installing the x32 version.   Did that also result in XP32 being installed to a drive other-than-C: ??   If so, you can easily fix it by just installing it again ... but this time be sure the partition's not visible to XP x64.   Note that if you forget, the x32 version will "see" the x64 version before you re-activate Boot-It;  and the x64 version will "see" the x32 version when you boot to it.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23057847
You're precisely right...

Initially XP32 installed to F: and the XP32 partition index was 4, not 1 (which explains F: as the boot drive letter).  Manually editing boot.ini resolved both the Windows multi-boot problem, and the F: boot drive-letter problem.  Now both OS's boot to C:, and do so in Windows single-boot mode (BING continues to multi-boot as expected.)

Is there another way to format a BING partition on a blank disk prior to installing an OS on it?  My method worked because I already had XP64 installed on the disk, but without XP64 pre-installed I could not have used that method.

I am still having a problem with the HP audio driver in XP32, but that's a driver issue that I hope to solve by downloading the latest driver from the audio ISV.
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by:garycase
ID: 23057859
I've never had to pre-format a partition to install XP => that's STRANGE behavior on your setup (I suspect having something to do with the SAS drive).    The simplest way to do it is ... as you did ... simply make the new partition "visible" to another OS;  format it;  and then change the boot item so that partition is NOT visible to the other OS BEFORE you do the installation.

The sound driver is indeed a totally separate issue ... nothing to do with BING or with your XP install.   You simply need to find the right driver.
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by:Tx74Qp853mR
ID: 23058127
The SAS drive came from HP with XP64 pre-installed, and that's how I was able to format the winxp32 partition prior to installing XP32 on it (i.e. formatting it from XP64.)

I'm pretty sure HP uses a method similar (if not identical) to the IDE imaging method you described earlier, to build the disks on a new machine.  

They probably install XP64 on a blank IDE drive in a "master" machine, by booting from a slipstreamed XP64 CD (with all the OEM drivers needed by the target machine) and install to the unpartitioned unformatted space on the IDE drive.

Then, to build a new machine they restore the IDE XP64 image to a blank SAS disk in the "master" machine, and transfer the imaged SAS disk to the target machine as its boot drive.

Having said that, there must be another more direct way to pre-format a SAS disk from a blank, prior to installing an OS on it.

Thanks again !
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