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anaronFlag for United States of America

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Boot.ini keeps disappearing

Dimension 8250, Xp Home
2 bootable hard drives:
Primary drive 0 = WD Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM sata w/sata controller card
Backup drive 1 = Seagate ST380215A ide

Happens a couple times a week. Boot computer and it gives missing boot.ini. Shut down, go to bios and set to boot off of ide drive, reboot. Check sata druve for boot file and it's gone. Copy boot.ini from ide to sata, reboot to sata and everything works fine. The only errors or warnings in the event viewer is "an errof was detected on device\Device\Harddisk1\D uring a paging operation".

What do I need to look for that is causing the sata drive to lose the boot.ini?
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debuggerau
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Do you have any third party boot managers loaded?

Ensure its set to read only, system and hidden when copying it, although on reboot it should set itself.

Check for any malware also...


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No third party boot managers.
Run Ad Aware, Spybot & Trojan Remover couple times a week routinely. No malware detected.
While those malware detectors are good, they will not pickup everything.

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What else would you suggest on malware?
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Jonvee

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Jonvee

Following closely behind perhaps is Superantispyware:
http://www.superantispyware.com/

Also good is a-squared Free:
http://www.emsisoft.com/en/software/free/

imho there is no single Malware scanner that will guarantee removing all infections, & the same applies to virus scanning.   Here are two from the 'top of the range', both free.  Suggest you also run one of them to resolve the Boot.ini problem >

"Trend Micro's FREE online virus scanner":            
http://housecall.trendmicro.com/uk/
Ideal for scanning online, using "Safe Mode with networking".

Kaspersky free online virus scanner which is a good way to find out if you have any viruses or spyware without having to uninstall your existing antivirus software>
http://www.kaspersky.co.uk/virusscanner
This previous thread offers further suggestions.  Scroll through to "Open Discussion", to note that the issue could also be due to usb device confliction, or even a MS s/w issue>

"An error was detected on device\Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation":
https://www.experts-exchange.com/questions/21253336/An-error-was-detected-on-device-Device-Harddisk1-D-during-a-paging-operation.html

In case you haven't yet checked the Harddisk it may be prudent to do so>
"Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities":
http://tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287
Found a reference to your error in this next link where *two* reports both stated that the problem was due to a USB cable!    You can view them if you scroll to the bottom of the highlighted text>

"An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation":
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:ZHm6x2DBkkUJ:www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/29725271/event-id51--during-pagi.aspx+an+error+was+detected+on+device%5CDevice%5CHarddisk1%5CD+during+a+paging+operation&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
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Is it Dualboot Operating system...? On that Backup  HDD1 is Operating system Installed..?
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307061

Regards,
vijay kadadi
Also check this:-
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330184

Regards,
vijay kadadi
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Ran Malwarebytes and came up with 3 items that Malwarebytes forum shows to be false positives.
Cleared the event viewer and rebooted. Encllosed is a txt of the reboot results.
3-17-boot.txt
Was it convenient to exchange the USB cable for another one?

Checking out the reboot results next ..
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Jonvee, exchange which usb cable?
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Ok, finally found the right diagnostics for the sata. Fixed boot cd as instructed but when I do the reboot to cd, it loads the program then tell me that there is no WDxxx devices installed and gives me an error 0120 described by WD as "The error 0120 is an unknown error. This may be an anomaly, please check the connections and retest the drive. If the error repeats. I would recommend a replacement of the drive."
ok, XP Home - dual boot...
Do you boot into the other OS regularly?

The boot.ini get loaded from the primary drive, so do you go into BIOS and change the bootable drive, or have you a customized boot.ini to give you the multiboot option?
Or was it created when you installed the second OS, or did you customize it yourself, if so, please post.

I leading down a path, where an incorrect setup of an OS can very well remove a functioning boot.ini.

I wonder which partitions are visible and which ones are used in each OS? I've seen it where two OS's have been loaded into one Partition, or it can get even more complex when you have multiple partitions per disk...

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A little background. Orignailly had 2 ide drives, C; primary that was "entire disk" copied every night to the D; drive. D drive is an exact copy of C drive. Installed the sata as drive D and copied C to it. Changed the boot sequence to boot Sata first and ide devices second. I absolutey need a bootable backup drive to switch over to if I have a problem with the primary drive.
Both drives have 2 partitions. First partition hidden so everything goes on 2nd partition.
Custom boot.ini that I have used for years with the dual ide drives.
[boot loader]
timeout=6
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Ron Burnes" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS=" Backup" /fastdetect
so each time you boot, it will be trying to reset your boot devices, since your hardware profile will have changed.

Even if you change the hard drive itself, there is a good chance that MS are not going to support it, but to change to another type, chances are grim..

And if you were to load up the OS on the second hard drive, on booting, it will expect that certain devices are not where they were previously, and try to reconfigure for you.

Microsoft only support this if the hardware is identical.

Otherwise, a repair install will fix it usually, however the other hard drive should be inaccessible from the computer if you want the cold spare option.

As a hot spare, you'll need to go into BIOS and change the hard drive boot order..

Usually, I recommend having a spare hard drive in a USB caddy and do regular backups to it.
If you wanted an additional hard drive at the ready, I usually remove it, so it doesn't breakdown first.
As long as its got XP on it, as restore should be straight forward...

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How does the hardware profile change each time I boot and why would it try to reset my boot devices?

I operated a 40 gb seagate ide and a 80 gb wd ide for years using this method and never had a problem. So basically you are saying that two bootable hard drives, one sata and one ide will not work with xp or are you saying that my boot.ini is causing the problem?
For page defrag error:-
Also try with download pstools from microsoft download sites and run pagedfrg.exe from cmd promt using admin login and restart your computer.

Regards,
vijay kadadi
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Disconnected ide hard drive and turned it off in bios. Sata is the only hard drive that is functioning. Boot up and I get a bunch of the paging errors in Event Viewer. Turn off machine and disconnect the sata and activate the ide, boot up and get no errors. Turn off machine and connect 2nd ide drive, boot up and get no errors. Am I correct in assuming that the sata drive has a problem?
Its possible, but it depends on the errors.
From the XP system installed on the SATA drive, where is the Page file located?
System generated, or as I prefer to use 1.5 times the memory for a fixed size pagefile on a non system partition (preferably another drive).
But for this kind of plug and play hard drives, its better to keep the pagefile on the same drive obviously for when you swap..

Obviously, the hardware detection will get tripped when it boots and discovers that the SATA drivers are missing for the primary drive and will need to go through the whole process again, something you want to avoid in your situation.

However if you reboot again, this will hopefully get rectified automatically from within windows, however each backup will cause this to happen again..

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If I boot to the ide then it is drive C and has the page file.
If I boot to the sata then it is drive C and has the page file.
Page file is always on the drive I boot to.
"the hardware detection will get tripped when it boots"
I have never had a problem with this but if it was a problem then I could go back to the standard
[boot loader]
timeout=6
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows Home Xp" /fastdetect
and change boot drive from bios on boot up instead of the boot.ini.
Yes, or use recovery console to use 'bootcfg /rebuild' function.


But as you can appreciate moving a windows C drive installation to D drive to boot will not work, but if you swap the boot order, and maintain a C drive installation on another disk, it should boot ok assuming the devices are the same.

But trying to boot to the second hard drive, using the installation from the first, will cause windows to fail to load, since all the pointers are still looking for the first drive.


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Not sure I understand your response. As I have said from the start, I have 2 separate hard drives that are completely independent of each other both bootable. One is an exact copy of the other.from operating system to data and devices. Sorry but this thread has gotten way off base. We just keep rehashing my setup and are no closer to a solution to the original problem with the boot.ini
Sorry you feel that way,

But you cant just copy your C drive to D drive and create a custom boot.ini to boot from either.

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"But you cant just copy your C drive to D drive and create a custom boot.ini to boot from either."

Why not? I have been doing it for years and am doing it right now. Boot.ini boots the operating system and can be used to boot multiple operating systems on the same computer. The operating systems may be different or they may be the same. They may be on separate partitions on one hard drive or on separate hard drives.
This is the boot file I use
[boot loader]
timeout=6
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Ron Burnes" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS=" Backup" /fastdetect
Boot the computer and the screen comes up; Please select the operating system to start.
I can select either disk 0 or disk 1 to start.
Every night disk 0 is copied to disk 1 using Casper. When copying an entire hard disk, Casper copies the complete disk layout, including the format and content of each partition to another hard disk. This system has worked perfectly for several years using 2 ide hard drives. The disappearing boot.ini prolbem appeared when I changed my primary drive to the sata.
Your telling me that what I am doing cannot be done. Question, Have you ever tried?
Sorry, but Facts are facts, however unpalatable.

You actually need to change the BIOS to change the primary drive, as the system will use the C drive as the C drive always, unless you change the order....

You may not notice, since the image is the same as the other..

And that's just the point, you change the hardware and it stops working....

If you want to question me on thirty years of 'trying', raise another question..

So, I object, if the right answer is that is cant be done, or needs a different approach, thats it..
To verify, here is Microsoft's quote:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/249694
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My apologies Vee Mod. For some reason I did not get the email notices of debuggerau's or your 2 comments until about 45 minutes ago. I have no intention of leaving any comment unanswered.
debuggerau, I was not being sarcastic but was asking if you have ever tried this method. I am now back to running 2 IDE as the Sata crashed and has been returned for replacement.

Current config= Primary drive Seagate ST380215A, second drive WD600bb-75CAA0
I created a "new folder" on the sata desktop.
Rebooted
Selected Disk 0=Sata at boot menu
Desktop loads with "new folder" appearing
Load Disk Management
Disk 0 = Drive C = Sata  = system
Disk 1 = Drive D = Ide = active
Rebooted
Selected Disk 1=IDE at boot menu
Desktop loads without "new folder"
Load Disk Management
Disk 0 = Drive D  = Sata = system
Disk 1 = Drive C = Ide = boot
As I stated, this has always worked not on my 8250 with no problem until I changed the primary IDE to the SATA. I cannot change the ide drives in bios. The ide drives are cable select and the cable determines the primary  and secondary drive. My wife;s Dell 2400 has been setup the same way since March 2004 with no problem.
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Wrong data posted above.
Rebooted
Selected Disk 0=Seagate at boot menu
Desktop loads with "new folder" appearing
Load Disk Management
Disk 0 = Drive C = Seagate  = system
Disk 1 = Drive D = Wd = active
Rebooted
Selected Disk 1=WD at boot menu
Desktop loads without "new folder"
Load Disk Management
Disk 0 = Drive D  = Seagate = system
Disk 1 = Drive C = WD = boot
OK ok, its working, I don't want to go into a discussion off topic about what your expecting from the multiple IDE drives setup.

Just that the SATA changes the hardware profile, and I'm betting that you have a dual installation of XP, not a replicated windows system across multiple drives..

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Got the replacement sata this evening and set it up the same way I did the sata that went bad.
1) remove secondary ide, install pci sata controller, install sata drive
2) boot to bios, turn off secondary ide, bios recognizes sata
3) boot to ide, pci controller found, installed driver
4) reboot to ide
5) setup one partition entire sata drive and formatted  
6) copied ide to sata
7) disk management;
     disk 0 = C: = Ide = system
     disk 1 = D: = Sata = active & now has 2 partitions
8) boot to bios and change boot sequence to #1 sata, #2 ide devices
9) boot to sata
10) disk management;
      disk 0 = D: = Ide = active
      disk 1 = C: = Sata = system
Would this not be a replicated windows system on two drives instead of a dual XP installation?
Do you see anything I should do different?
this becomes interesting: copied ide to sata
I'm assuming you didn't use drag and drop..

Did the hardware wizard ask for drivers when booting from either system first-time when you rebooted into them?
aha, got it casper..
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Correct, I do not drag and drop. Drivers are not requested on first boot of either system. I apologize for not explaining how Casper XP functions. I have used it for years and guess I just assume everyone is familar with it.
"how does the boot.ini get trashed unless it is unable to convert the boot behaviour of both systems?" That's the big question. I have spent many hours researching the boot.ini problem but have yet to find a cause. Currently I'm researching the "An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation" as I feel it is directly related to the problem. Unfortunately there are thousands of postings about this problem and so far no resolution or solid reason it appears.
but you said that you modified it to a custom one, I'm not sure how casper works, but I'd guess it leaves the pagefile out of the copy, cause if it included it, it would be out on the second image..

I suspect you dont have any boot.ini problems after a straight Casper backup, having both IDE drives as the hardware profile should be the same..

Have you checked Casper doesn't run a service of some kind at boot? that could be effecting it..

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Yes, I have a custom boot.ini. Correct, there is no page file on disk 1.there have been no boot.ini problems after a backup. Casper does not run any service at boot or any other time until it is activated

I ran multiple tests today on booting using the bios and then using the boot.ini menu to select the boot drive;
.[A] multiple drives installed
1) Boot to Sata Disk 0 An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation
2) Boot to Ide Disk 1 no errors

[B] Single drive installed
Ide Disk 0;
No errors
Sata Disk 0;
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation
The error occurs only when booting to the Sata. Not sure what that tells me.
not sure if casper handles the pagefile correctly, you should be able to delete it (system properties/advanced/Performance Settings/Advanced Tab/ Change Button / No Paging File.
Then reboot and set it as you like and reboot again..
retest..
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From Casper; Since the paging file is a temporary file created on demand by Windows,
Casper actually excludes it as a performance optimization. (Casper also
excludes the Windows hibernation file for the same reason.)
Wise move...
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Something has come up and I need to take a breather from this problem for a while. May not have solved it but I have learned a few things. Thanks for the help!
no worries..
Just in case the solution above didn't work (as it didn't on mine), I found that for some unkown reason the ASK toolbar service was deleting my boot.ini on startup.  I found it was this by restricting what starts up via MSCONFIG and after realising it was a service causing the problem, narrowed it down to the ASK service.  I just uninstalled ASK using add/remove programs and it stopped being deleted.

Hope this helps.

Lee.
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Thanks Lee, I'll check this out.