kman48185
asked on
Wirless OLD Hotel No Hallways
I am working on a wireless project for a hotel. No hallways and each room has it's own entrance. Think of something like a Red Roof Inn, but not Red Roof Inn. Single floor, two wings each wing his 450' or more in legnth. Every other room has a BRICK firewall that goes from floor to ceiling.
The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access. This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room.
What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector? As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms.
Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons. And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem. Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think. Although we might mount the AP on the wall.
The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access. This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room.
What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector? As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms.
Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons. And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem. Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think. Although we might mount the AP on the wall.
Can you provide a picture/diagram of the building, wings, and the telcom room (or wherever the internet feed is)?
Are the wings parallel, L-shaped, etc.?
I know you said no hallways, but is there any type of overhang/sidewalk in which AP's could be mounted outside underneath the overhang? And if so, would you be allowed to mount AP's here?
I am thinking you might be able to get wireless AP/bridges, like that of the DLink DWL-3200AP which can function as access points and wireless bridges at the same time. So essentially you can pysically wire the one closest to the telcom room/internet feed and mount about 4-5 more going down each wing which will communicate wirelessly (via the bridge mode). You can NOT wirelessly hop more than 4-5 APs though, as the signal will degrade too much.
I had to do this exact same thing and used 23 of these DLink AP's with very good results. The building was a bit different though. Here is a link to a drawing/layout of the building.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/tplaya07/Floorplan.jpg
Are the wings parallel, L-shaped, etc.?
I know you said no hallways, but is there any type of overhang/sidewalk in which AP's could be mounted outside underneath the overhang? And if so, would you be allowed to mount AP's here?
I am thinking you might be able to get wireless AP/bridges, like that of the DLink DWL-3200AP which can function as access points and wireless bridges at the same time. So essentially you can pysically wire the one closest to the telcom room/internet feed and mount about 4-5 more going down each wing which will communicate wirelessly (via the bridge mode). You can NOT wirelessly hop more than 4-5 APs though, as the signal will degrade too much.
I had to do this exact same thing and used 23 of these DLink AP's with very good results. The building was a bit different though. Here is a link to a drawing/layout of the building.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/tplaya07/Floorplan.jpg
Sir, I do politely suggest that you contact a professional who can physically do this for you. What you are trying to do is not normal by any stretch, and furthermore, the plan you have laid out in your question is not only bizzare, it is impossible as well. I highly recommend that if you are working in the IT field as a primary career, you may want to consider reading up a bit before taking commercial jobs such as this. Please read the rest before you get too angry.
The question you are answering can not have a solution. I will tell you why, and although I am being a bit critical, I am also going to explain what you should do.
1. "The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access."
-The only way that you could make use of having a coaxial drop in each room would be by having a cable modem per room. The cost of this would be outrageous, and it simply unfeasable. The cable company should have told you that this won't work.
2. "This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room."
-Why? Why don't you just split the cable with a 2-way adapter?
3. "What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector?"
-There is no such thing. If you do find something, I can promise that it will be very dated and extremely unsecure.
4. "As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms."
-Firstly, after reading everything above this line, it is already clear that this wouldn't work anyways, but even if you did come to the conclusion that you will put a router in each room, it is a very absurd idea. Firstly, you would not want a router in each room. You would not want an access point in each room. LOL. Just imagine how insane that would look when you're trying to find a wireless network! There would be 100+ wireless networks available. If you opted to put a standard router in each room, I beg to ask how you would configure them to ensure that they were not stepping all over eachother. Sir, what you need would be a switch. The router should be somewhere near the cable modem.
5. "Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons."
-You are wanting to build a network, but ethernet is out of the question? Please do tell how you plan on making this work. Please list the many reasons, because this is your #1 reason for this entire question being bogus.
6. " And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem."
-Actually, it's a big problem, because it won't work.
7. "Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think."
-Who's your partner? The cable man? I would actually hide it up in the roof where they will never see it. You don't want that sitting out in the open. It will get hacked or stolen if you leave it out in the open.
8. "Although we might mount the AP on the wall."
-Again, it needs to be out of sight, and completely physically inaccessible to the guest. If you do not do this, you will have bad things happen.
Now that I'm done ripping your question apart like a troll eating a billy goat, I will tell you what you need to consider.
1. Security
-How do you intend on keeping the guests computer secure? This should be a priority. Get a damn good firewall. Just because you have a password on a wireless network doesn't mean your guests aren't going to try and screw things up.
2. Ethernet
-It's required, brother. There is nothing else I can say about that.
3. Router
-The router needs to be completely secure. It really should be where all the other MAIN equipment is. This shouldn't be sitting in each individual's room. It simply wont' work. Also, if you plan on just using a wireless access point and no router, you are going to have another huge problem. Only one computer can connect to an access point if there is no router.
4. Cable Modem
-Cable guy needs to get you this modem, and the cable modem will be kept right next to your router. This cable modem needs to be in a safe and secure area as well.
I drew you a photo. Good luck, and please don't take this lashing too hard. You really need to hire a professional for a job like this.
Please provide a Google sattelite image of the building, and please give us a drawing to illustrate the building's layout.
4. Location
-You need to get the max range for whatever WiFi device you use. Just remembe
Picture-8.jpg
The question you are answering can not have a solution. I will tell you why, and although I am being a bit critical, I am also going to explain what you should do.
1. "The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access."
-The only way that you could make use of having a coaxial drop in each room would be by having a cable modem per room. The cost of this would be outrageous, and it simply unfeasable. The cable company should have told you that this won't work.
2. "This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room."
-Why? Why don't you just split the cable with a 2-way adapter?
3. "What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector?"
-There is no such thing. If you do find something, I can promise that it will be very dated and extremely unsecure.
4. "As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms."
-Firstly, after reading everything above this line, it is already clear that this wouldn't work anyways, but even if you did come to the conclusion that you will put a router in each room, it is a very absurd idea. Firstly, you would not want a router in each room. You would not want an access point in each room. LOL. Just imagine how insane that would look when you're trying to find a wireless network! There would be 100+ wireless networks available. If you opted to put a standard router in each room, I beg to ask how you would configure them to ensure that they were not stepping all over eachother. Sir, what you need would be a switch. The router should be somewhere near the cable modem.
5. "Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons."
-You are wanting to build a network, but ethernet is out of the question? Please do tell how you plan on making this work. Please list the many reasons, because this is your #1 reason for this entire question being bogus.
6. " And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem."
-Actually, it's a big problem, because it won't work.
7. "Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think."
-Who's your partner? The cable man? I would actually hide it up in the roof where they will never see it. You don't want that sitting out in the open. It will get hacked or stolen if you leave it out in the open.
8. "Although we might mount the AP on the wall."
-Again, it needs to be out of sight, and completely physically inaccessible to the guest. If you do not do this, you will have bad things happen.
Now that I'm done ripping your question apart like a troll eating a billy goat, I will tell you what you need to consider.
1. Security
-How do you intend on keeping the guests computer secure? This should be a priority. Get a damn good firewall. Just because you have a password on a wireless network doesn't mean your guests aren't going to try and screw things up.
2. Ethernet
-It's required, brother. There is nothing else I can say about that.
3. Router
-The router needs to be completely secure. It really should be where all the other MAIN equipment is. This shouldn't be sitting in each individual's room. It simply wont' work. Also, if you plan on just using a wireless access point and no router, you are going to have another huge problem. Only one computer can connect to an access point if there is no router.
4. Cable Modem
-Cable guy needs to get you this modem, and the cable modem will be kept right next to your router. This cable modem needs to be in a safe and secure area as well.
I drew you a photo. Good luck, and please don't take this lashing too hard. You really need to hire a professional for a job like this.
Please provide a Google sattelite image of the building, and please give us a drawing to illustrate the building's layout.
4. Location
-You need to get the max range for whatever WiFi device you use. Just remembe
Picture-8.jpg
ASKER
My responses are after your - responses and lettered, a, b, c etc...
1. "The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access."
-The only way that you could make use of having a coaxial drop in each room would be by having a cable modem per room. The cost of this would be outrageous, and it simply unfeasable. The cable company should have told you that this won't work.
a. The cost is less then $70.00 US. The cable modem IS also a wireless access point. Follow this link.
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessGRouters/CG834WG.aspx
2. "This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room."
-Why? Why don't you just split the cable with a 2-way adapter?
b. I asked the Cable Company to do what you suggested, two days ago, they insist that a sperate cable be run for the Internet access.
3. "What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector?"
-There is no such thing. If you do find something, I can promise that it will be very dated and extremely unsecure.
c. http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessGRouters/CG834WG.aspx
d. Safe and Secure
Double firewall with stateful packet inspection (SPI) and NAT (Network Address Translation) secures your network against hackers. NAT firewall with VPN (virtual private network) pass-through protects against Internet attacks, and auto-partitioning on each port protects each installed computer from damaged network connections. URL content filtering and time-of-day usage limits give parents and administrators ultimate control over user access. Emailed reports of browsing activities and optional real-time email alerts provide further input on user activity.
4. "As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms."
-Firstly, after reading everything above this line, it is already clear that this wouldn't work anyways, but even if you did come to the conclusion that you will put a router in each room, it is a very absurd idea. Firstly, you would not want a router in each room. You would not want an access point in each room. LOL. Just imagine how insane that would look when you're trying to find a wireless network! There would be 100+ wireless networks available. If you opted to put a standard router in each room, I beg to ask how you would configure them to ensure that they were not stepping all over eachother. Sir, what you need would be a switch. The router should be somewhere near the cable modem.
e. the SSID for each access point will be something_room_number.
f. Guest will recieve printed paper with instructions on connecting to THEIR WAP. Network KEY must be typed in by user. THEREFORE, each guest will connect to ONLY their specific WAP.
5. "Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons."
-You are wanting to build a network, but ethernet is out of the question? Please do tell how you plan on making this work. Please list the many reasons, because this is your #1 reason for this entire question being bogus.
g. There is no way to make an ethernet run from one end of the building to the other or rather from the middle where the managers office is to the ends where room are. This is an old brick building. While the roof is peaked ever so slightly there is not much crawl space above the ceiling. The ethernet runs would be cost prohibitive. Money is the issue here. I have had company's bid $25,000.00 for this job, that is WAY WAY out of budget.
6. " And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem."
-Actually, it's a big problem, because it won't work.
h. Ok, so every other room has a closet with a hatch so to speak that would allow someone to access the attic. So maybe I have electric put in up there and then have the cable run for the INTERNET acess only put in and attach my NetGEAR cable modem access point to it.
7. "Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think."
-Who's your partner? The cable man? I would actually hide it up in the roof where they will never see it. You don't want that sitting out in the open. It will get hacked or stolen if you leave it out in the open.
i. You nailed it. The cable man brought me the lead.
8. "Although we might mount the AP on the wall."
-Again, it needs to be out of sight, and completely physically inaccessible to the guest. If you do not do this, you will have bad things happen.
Now that I'm done ripping your question apart like a troll eating a billy goat, I will tell you what you need to consider.
1. Security
-How do you intend on keeping the guests computer secure? This should be a priority. Get a damn good firewall. Just because you have a password on a wireless network doesn't mean your guests aren't going to try and screw things up.
j. Ok, good one. But over all here in the USA, we know that when we connect to a WAP in the public domain we are not FIREWALL protected. I guess we could have each guest sign a statement of understanding.
2. Ethernet
-It's required, brother. There is nothing else I can say about that.
k. If my NetGEAR Broadband Router / WAP is what they say it is, then this will be done without ethernet. NOTICE that I did not say without TCP / IP. There seems to be a difference.
3. Router
-The router needs to be completely secure. It really should be where all the other MAIN equipment is. This shouldn't be sitting in each individual's room. It simply wont' work. Also, if you plan on just using a wireless access point and no router, you are going to have another huge problem. Only one computer can connect to an access point if there is no router.
l. We will have to see about the NetGEAR solution.
4. Cable Modem
-Cable guy needs to get you this modem, and the cable modem will be kept right next to your router. This cable modem needs to be in a safe and secure area as well.
m. so far this does not seem to be true.
I drew you a photo. Good luck, and please don't take this lashing too hard. You really need to hire a professional for a job like this.
n. Listening to you was not so bad. It was good to see that someone besides me actally took the time to think this through. I have steadfastly refused this job but they keep coming back to me. I suspect that this is due to the other guys and thus the PROFESSIONAL solution is too expensive for this customer.
This is a hotle that rents rooms by the hour.
Please provide a Google sattelite image of the building, and please give us a drawing to illustrate the building's layout.
o. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=15075+Hubbard+St,+Livonia,+MI+48154&daddr=42.365932,-83.275809&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=42.366471,-83.270402&sspn=0.013381,0.038452&ie=UTF8&ll=42.365932,-83.275723&spn=0.006025,0.038452&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.366509,-83.275719&panoid=RHfb-BzeRxdvPDasYy_Slw&cbp=11,280.5858598898369,,0,-3.3370535714285654
4. Location
-You need to get the max range for whatever WiFi device you use. Just remembe
p. Ok maybe I will only put in ONE NetGEAR CableModem with WAP in every OTHER room. Thus covering two rooms and not having to deal with the Firewall (brick type).
1. "The cable provider will bring coax to each and ever room for internet access."
-The only way that you could make use of having a coaxial drop in each room would be by having a cable modem per room. The cost of this would be outrageous, and it simply unfeasable. The cable company should have told you that this won't work.
a. The cost is less then $70.00 US. The cable modem IS also a wireless access point. Follow this link.
http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessGRouters/CG834WG.aspx
2. "This will be seperate from the regular cable that is already in the room."
-Why? Why don't you just split the cable with a 2-way adapter?
b. I asked the Cable Company to do what you suggested, two days ago, they insist that a sperate cable be run for the Internet access.
3. "What kind of broadband router has the capability of taking a coax (barrel twist) connector?"
-There is no such thing. If you do find something, I can promise that it will be very dated and extremely unsecure.
c. http://www.netgear.com/Products/RoutersandGateways/WirelessGRouters/CG834WG.aspx
d. Safe and Secure
Double firewall with stateful packet inspection (SPI) and NAT (Network Address Translation) secures your network against hackers. NAT firewall with VPN (virtual private network) pass-through protects against Internet attacks, and auto-partitioning on each port protects each installed computer from damaged network connections. URL content filtering and time-of-day usage limits give parents and administrators ultimate control over user access. Emailed reports of browsing activities and optional real-time email alerts provide further input on user activity.
4. "As this point we will either have one AP / Router per room or one for every two rooms."
-Firstly, after reading everything above this line, it is already clear that this wouldn't work anyways, but even if you did come to the conclusion that you will put a router in each room, it is a very absurd idea. Firstly, you would not want a router in each room. You would not want an access point in each room. LOL. Just imagine how insane that would look when you're trying to find a wireless network! There would be 100+ wireless networks available. If you opted to put a standard router in each room, I beg to ask how you would configure them to ensure that they were not stepping all over eachother. Sir, what you need would be a switch. The router should be somewhere near the cable modem.
e. the SSID for each access point will be something_room_number.
f. Guest will recieve printed paper with instructions on connecting to THEIR WAP. Network KEY must be typed in by user. THEREFORE, each guest will connect to ONLY their specific WAP.
5. "Eathernet is out of the question for many reasons."
-You are wanting to build a network, but ethernet is out of the question? Please do tell how you plan on making this work. Please list the many reasons, because this is your #1 reason for this entire question being bogus.
g. There is no way to make an ethernet run from one end of the building to the other or rather from the middle where the managers office is to the ends where room are. This is an old brick building. While the roof is peaked ever so slightly there is not much crawl space above the ceiling. The ethernet runs would be cost prohibitive. Money is the issue here. I have had company's bid $25,000.00 for this job, that is WAY WAY out of budget.
6. " And since there are outlets in the room, putting a router in the room and plugging it in is no problem."
-Actually, it's a big problem, because it won't work.
h. Ok, so every other room has a closet with a hatch so to speak that would allow someone to access the attic. So maybe I have electric put in up there and then have the cable run for the INTERNET acess only put in and attach my NetGEAR cable modem access point to it.
7. "Putting it all right where the TV and cable is will be the best, we think."
-Who's your partner? The cable man? I would actually hide it up in the roof where they will never see it. You don't want that sitting out in the open. It will get hacked or stolen if you leave it out in the open.
i. You nailed it. The cable man brought me the lead.
8. "Although we might mount the AP on the wall."
-Again, it needs to be out of sight, and completely physically inaccessible to the guest. If you do not do this, you will have bad things happen.
Now that I'm done ripping your question apart like a troll eating a billy goat, I will tell you what you need to consider.
1. Security
-How do you intend on keeping the guests computer secure? This should be a priority. Get a damn good firewall. Just because you have a password on a wireless network doesn't mean your guests aren't going to try and screw things up.
j. Ok, good one. But over all here in the USA, we know that when we connect to a WAP in the public domain we are not FIREWALL protected. I guess we could have each guest sign a statement of understanding.
2. Ethernet
-It's required, brother. There is nothing else I can say about that.
k. If my NetGEAR Broadband Router / WAP is what they say it is, then this will be done without ethernet. NOTICE that I did not say without TCP / IP. There seems to be a difference.
3. Router
-The router needs to be completely secure. It really should be where all the other MAIN equipment is. This shouldn't be sitting in each individual's room. It simply wont' work. Also, if you plan on just using a wireless access point and no router, you are going to have another huge problem. Only one computer can connect to an access point if there is no router.
l. We will have to see about the NetGEAR solution.
4. Cable Modem
-Cable guy needs to get you this modem, and the cable modem will be kept right next to your router. This cable modem needs to be in a safe and secure area as well.
m. so far this does not seem to be true.
I drew you a photo. Good luck, and please don't take this lashing too hard. You really need to hire a professional for a job like this.
n. Listening to you was not so bad. It was good to see that someone besides me actally took the time to think this through. I have steadfastly refused this job but they keep coming back to me. I suspect that this is due to the other guys and thus the PROFESSIONAL solution is too expensive for this customer.
This is a hotle that rents rooms by the hour.
Please provide a Google sattelite image of the building, and please give us a drawing to illustrate the building's layout.
o. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=15075+Hubbard+St,+Livonia,+MI+48154&daddr=42.365932,-83.275809&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=42.366471,-83.270402&sspn=0.013381,0.038452&ie=UTF8&ll=42.365932,-83.275723&spn=0.006025,0.038452&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.366509,-83.275719&panoid=RHfb-BzeRxdvPDasYy_Slw&cbp=11,280.5858598898369,,0,-3.3370535714285654
4. Location
-You need to get the max range for whatever WiFi device you use. Just remembe
p. Ok maybe I will only put in ONE NetGEAR CableModem with WAP in every OTHER room. Thus covering two rooms and not having to deal with the Firewall (brick type).
ASKER
tplaya07:Can you provide a picture/diagram of the building, wings, and the telcom room (or wherever the internet feed is)?
Are the wings parallel, L-shaped, etc.?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=15075+Hubbard+St,+Livonia,+MI+48154&daddr=42.365932,-83.275809&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=42.366471,-83.270402&sspn=0.013381,0.038452&ie=UTF8&ll=42.365932,-83.275723&spn=0.006025,0.038452&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.366509,-83.275719&panoid=RHfb-BzeRxdvPDasYy_Slw&cbp=11,280.5858598898369,,0,-3.3370535714285654
I know you said no hallways, but is there any type of overhang/sidewalk in which AP's could be mounted outside underneath the overhang? And if so, would you be allowed to mount AP's here?
There is an over hang but when we have a guy remove a couple of light fixtures we did not see a way to mount this WAP's up in there. And the building is BRICK floor to roof and the room doors are STEAL.
I am thinking you might be able to get wireless AP/bridges, like that of the DLink DWL-3200AP which can function as access points and wireless bridges at the same time. So essentially you can pysically wire the one closest to the telcom room/internet feed and mount about 4-5 more going down each wing which will communicate wirelessly (via the bridge mode). You can NOT wirelessly hop more than 4-5 APs though, as the signal will degrade too much.
I had to do this exact same thing and used 23 of these DLink AP's with very good results. The building was a bit different though. Here is a link to a drawing/layout of the building.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/tplaya07/Floorplan.jpg
Are the wings parallel, L-shaped, etc.?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=15075+Hubbard+St,+Livonia,+MI+48154&daddr=42.365932,-83.275809&hl=en&geocode=&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=42.366471,-83.270402&sspn=0.013381,0.038452&ie=UTF8&ll=42.365932,-83.275723&spn=0.006025,0.038452&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.366509,-83.275719&panoid=RHfb-BzeRxdvPDasYy_Slw&cbp=11,280.5858598898369,,0,-3.3370535714285654
I know you said no hallways, but is there any type of overhang/sidewalk in which AP's could be mounted outside underneath the overhang? And if so, would you be allowed to mount AP's here?
There is an over hang but when we have a guy remove a couple of light fixtures we did not see a way to mount this WAP's up in there. And the building is BRICK floor to roof and the room doors are STEAL.
I am thinking you might be able to get wireless AP/bridges, like that of the DLink DWL-3200AP which can function as access points and wireless bridges at the same time. So essentially you can pysically wire the one closest to the telcom room/internet feed and mount about 4-5 more going down each wing which will communicate wirelessly (via the bridge mode). You can NOT wirelessly hop more than 4-5 APs though, as the signal will degrade too much.
I had to do this exact same thing and used 23 of these DLink AP's with very good results. The building was a bit different though. Here is a link to a drawing/layout of the building.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/tplaya07/Floorplan.jpg
ASKER
DMTechGrooup:Wifi.. Coax cable needs to be converted to Enternet at some point..
Just put in a few Wifi routers.. bridge them and offer Wifi.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17
This one makes me see the light, if I had two POE runs down each end of the building along the back side of the building and placed two or three of these outdoor WiFi thingys along that run then all is well.
The only unknown is the BRICK walls and steal doors effect on the signal.
Connect one to the internet router and the others would be bridged to the first one.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17
Just put in a few Wifi routers.. bridge them and offer Wifi.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17
This one makes me see the light, if I had two POE runs down each end of the building along the back side of the building and placed two or three of these outdoor WiFi thingys along that run then all is well.
The only unknown is the BRICK walls and steal doors effect on the signal.
Connect one to the internet router and the others would be bridged to the first one.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17
ASKER
Here is the basic layout. Manager's office in the middle (no lobby to speak of, just a bullet proof check in and out station) Two wings, left and right.
Hotel-Layout.jpg
Hotel-Layout.jpg
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Remember even though there is brick and steel.. there is also glass. If you hooked up a Cordless phone.. 2.4ghz.. how far could you get with it? Thats what 802.11g runs at.. now if you take a 5ghz cordeless how far can you get with that one? Thats what 802.11n runs at.. this AP I suggest does both bands.. you would have no issues.
So, you can run a new coaxial cable, but you can't run ethernet due to space constraints?
ASKER
MrMintanet:So, you can run a new coaxial cable, but you can't run ethernet due to space constraints?
a. Yes because the cable company will bring the cable and go the same way the brought the original cable to each room. They don't have to deal with the attic or even the brick fire wall every other room because the follow the same run and poke the cable thru the wall where the other one is going.
Admittedly, your comments gave me pause to think. And DMTechgroup has me on the right track. I have went back and talked to the owners and they are in contemplation. Knowing the cabling industry (as in running the PoE lines) they will want $2000.00, that plus the estimated cost DMtech mentions puts the cost at nearly $3000.00. Giving myself some credit and a bit of a pad, I told them this would cost at least 6K. They seemed uninterested at that point. Time will tell.
a. Yes because the cable company will bring the cable and go the same way the brought the original cable to each room. They don't have to deal with the attic or even the brick fire wall every other room because the follow the same run and poke the cable thru the wall where the other one is going.
Admittedly, your comments gave me pause to think. And DMTechgroup has me on the right track. I have went back and talked to the owners and they are in contemplation. Knowing the cabling industry (as in running the PoE lines) they will want $2000.00, that plus the estimated cost DMtech mentions puts the cost at nearly $3000.00. Giving myself some credit and a bit of a pad, I told them this would cost at least 6K. They seemed uninterested at that point. Time will tell.
How many rooms are in this place?
What do you mean 2K to run POE lines? Run them from the end rooms.. 100-200 feet max of cable on each should be about at most 100 bucks a run.. that would be $500.00
If there is power anywhere outside already then you can do it that way.
Don't over complicate this.. You should be able to have eveything up and running on 5 AP's for under 2k.
If there is power anywhere outside already then you can do it that way.
Don't over complicate this.. You should be able to have eveything up and running on 5 AP's for under 2k.
Had you received a price quote for the monthly cost for the internet service alone? It must be very expensive as it is.
DMTech,
I am afraid that the old "lead the horse to the water" saying may apply here.
Again, I suggest to kman; please consider contacting a few professionals. Have them bid the job and give you a price quote itemizing how they intend on setting up the wifi in the building.
DMtech has a very good plan laid out for you, but at the same time, it is very much impossible for us to give you a rock-soild solution without physically surveying the job site.
I assure you that your project is horribly planned, and it is far too expensive to even be considered remotely practical.
One last question: What was your budget for this?
I am afraid that the old "lead the horse to the water" saying may apply here.
Again, I suggest to kman; please consider contacting a few professionals. Have them bid the job and give you a price quote itemizing how they intend on setting up the wifi in the building.
DMtech has a very good plan laid out for you, but at the same time, it is very much impossible for us to give you a rock-soild solution without physically surveying the job site.
I assure you that your project is horribly planned, and it is far too expensive to even be considered remotely practical.
One last question: What was your budget for this?
Two options come to mind:
1. Something else to think about, maybe a LRE product. I know Cisco made one (you can find them on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-WS-C2950ST-24-LRE-2950-ST-24-port-1-YEAR-WNTY_W0QQitemZ220385066835QQihZ012QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ).
There are a couple of others out there. They will ride on the current phone wire to each room using a modem on one end and a switch on the other end.
2. Ruckus wireless (http://www.ruckuswireless.com/) They will allow you to repeat wireless signal unit to unit to unit. I believe they can repeat for up to 4 APs. You will need a zone director with them, and I think their pricing is pretty good. You might need to run connectivy to the end of each building to make the coverage point. The second one is the cheapest and might be the easist to complete.
1. Something else to think about, maybe a LRE product. I know Cisco made one (you can find them on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-WS-C2950ST-24-LRE-2950-ST-24-port-1-YEAR-WNTY_W0QQitemZ220385066835QQihZ012QQcategoryZ51268QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ).
There are a couple of others out there. They will ride on the current phone wire to each room using a modem on one end and a switch on the other end.
2. Ruckus wireless (http://www.ruckuswireless.com/) They will allow you to repeat wireless signal unit to unit to unit. I believe they can repeat for up to 4 APs. You will need a zone director with them, and I think their pricing is pretty good. You might need to run connectivy to the end of each building to make the coverage point. The second one is the cheapest and might be the easist to complete.
ASKER
DMTechGrooup:What do you mean 2K to run POE lines? Run them from the end rooms.. 100-200 feet max of cable on each should be about at most 100 bucks a run.. that would be $500.00
a. I have attached your pic with an update on it. I have been thinking that the Manager's office where the (middle near red circle) would house the single cable company provided high speed modem which would then be plugged into a switch or hub. From there a PoE, run to the first red circle you drew and the first WAP be located there in the lobby. Then, I thought make a 2nd run from the location described above to the end of the building where I meet either blue circle. Since there is room ON the roof, and there is a Security cam on each end of the building I thought I would have the run be ON the roof and placed inside of inner duct ( you know that orange tube stuff) Same for the 3rd run. then Since they will be there go ahead and have the yellow runs done. But not install the WAP's unless the coverage is lax / lame.
So is there a problem with placing these AP's on the roof? Keep in mind this roof has security cam's mounted so I should be able to make run's for AP's and locate WAP's to the same location as the security cam's. Contacting someone else is out of the question, she does not have money.
There was no budget, clients rarely tell you what they are willing to spend. But today when I told her it would be at least 6K she said that it sounded high. For all I know she HAS had other bids.
If there is power anywhere outside already then you can do it that way.
There is power on the outside. There is a sign, that lights up. there is a run from a post near the sign that goes under the parking lot and too the office. But then the WAP would be too vulnerable to theft. She wants them on the roof. Or under a locked container of some sort.
Don't over complicate this.. You should be able to have eveything up and running on 5 AP's for under 2k.
Capture5b.jpg
I dont think you understand how the POE works. It is a small box that plugs into a adapter and the ethernet cable plugs into it to provide power to the unit. So you don't need to run from the managers office to the units. You locate the closest secure power (always on) source and plug the adapter into it and run Cat5 from there to the AP.
The blue AP's connect using WDS to the red AP. There is no need to run wire all the way around the building.
The blue AP's connect using WDS to the red AP. There is no need to run wire all the way around the building.
POE can be delived VIA a switch also, how long is the run from the Red Circle to the Blue Circle?
Again, after DMT has just said, this is why I am telling you to go to a few professionals and have them give you quotes. You're going to shoot yourself in the foot. Trust me. This will save much stress. There is nothing wrong with not knowing. There is a big problem when you pretend to know what you are doing and then fail. Failing would not only be a waste of your customer's money, but it would ruin your own company's name. Having a few companies come out and survey the job you're doing and giving you a direct quote for the task would be such a great way to learn how to do it. Have 3 different IT contractors come out and gie you quotes. Trust me. Asking people on E-E how to do this is considerably worthless. A site survey from a google sat image is hardly grounds to decide how to bid a job.
This isn't what you want to hear, and I know I'm not going to get any points on this question, but believe it or not, I have put a great deal of time into this. I've been trying to help you, but it truly seems that you want to gamble.
This isn't what you want to hear, and I know I'm not going to get any points on this question, but believe it or not, I have put a great deal of time into this. I've been trying to help you, but it truly seems that you want to gamble.
ASKER
This isn't what you want to hear, and I know I'm not going to get any points on this question, but believe it or not, I have put a great deal of time into this. I've been trying to help you, but it truly seems that you want to gamble.
a. I do apprecieate your comments and efforts. And if I go forward then you are right I will be gambling. But let me ask you, how on earth can I get quotes with out the people providing the quotes going directly to my potential customer?
b. Do you really thing they would bid based on the following RFP?
c. This isn't what you want to hear, and I know I'm not going to get any points on this question, but believe it or not, I have put a great deal of time into this. I've been trying to help you, but it truly seems that you want to gamble.
d. without going on site and thus be in a position to take the business from me?
e. they give me a high quote and give her the real deal.
f. thoughts?
a. Pose as the customer. It's easy.
b. You let them find the best way. Tell them it's an open option.
c. ....
d. You may not deserve this business, but you can still get competitors to meet you on site, and you can pose as the client. Simply be there before they arrive and be ready to meet them. It's a lesser gamble than what you've got in mind.
e. You should pose as the owner. Pose. Pose = lie.
f. Read above. :)
b. You let them find the best way. Tell them it's an open option.
c. ....
d. You may not deserve this business, but you can still get competitors to meet you on site, and you can pose as the client. Simply be there before they arrive and be ready to meet them. It's a lesser gamble than what you've got in mind.
e. You should pose as the owner. Pose. Pose = lie.
f. Read above. :)
kman- you should REALLY look into the Dlink DWL-3200AP's or some similar commercial grade wireless AP/bridge. I promise it will save you a TON of headaches trying to figure out how to wire all this stuff...because you don't have to. All you have to do is provide a 110v power source at each location. You will have 5 AP's total, mounted near the locations shown in the picture. The ONLY AP that will need to be wired is the one right in the middle at the manager's office (marked in red). The other AP's will communicate wirelessly (hop) from one to another. Basically,AP1 at the top of the picture will have only the MAC address of the AP2 programmed into it. AP2 will only have AP1 and AP3 MACs, AP3 will have AP2 and AP4, etc.
You could mount these on the ceiling under the overhang and your electrician should be able to pull a 110v outlet for you off on of the lights thats probably mounted on the overhang. You would just need to plan a little bit on where exactly each AP would be mouted, as you want to give them the best line of sight between one another as possible. The DLink AP's cost around $150/ea x 5 = $750 + the cost of a ~50ft ethernet cable to connect to the cable modem. And you don't even need to get a switch if you don't want to, as you could plug AP3 directly into the back of the cable modem.
Also, if security/tampering is an issue, you could always get a few of the large tinted security camera domes to mount over them. the glass should have minimal effect on the signal.
building.bmp
You could mount these on the ceiling under the overhang and your electrician should be able to pull a 110v outlet for you off on of the lights thats probably mounted on the overhang. You would just need to plan a little bit on where exactly each AP would be mouted, as you want to give them the best line of sight between one another as possible. The DLink AP's cost around $150/ea x 5 = $750 + the cost of a ~50ft ethernet cable to connect to the cable modem. And you don't even need to get a switch if you don't want to, as you could plug AP3 directly into the back of the cable modem.
Also, if security/tampering is an issue, you could always get a few of the large tinted security camera domes to mount over them. the glass should have minimal effect on the signal.
building.bmp
The dlinks are only 802.11g.. should use the other ones and go for 802.11n.. and it also has a/b/g..
I never had good luck with linksys, dlink, etc. for outdoor use.. The engenius is a solid unit.
I never had good luck with linksys, dlink, etc. for outdoor use.. The engenius is a solid unit.
Perhaps you should get a professional to help you IRL?
ASKER
tplaya07. you know what I like about your IDEA? For under 200 bucks I can order one of the DWL 3200, have it delivered to my door, then configure it, take it 200, then 300 and then 400 feet away from my office (which is in a condo that is set up much like the hotel (only we have two floors). Plug it into 110v and test the solutions. If that goes well I can do the same but this time take it accros the street to my health club, and test again. The biggest thing I have to over come is protecting it from the weather. The secruiry CAM dome thing seems to be the best idea.
thanks man,
Kevin
tplaya07:kman- you should REALLY look into the Dlink DWL-3200AP's or some similar commercial grade wireless AP/bridge. I promise it will save you a TON of headaches trying to figure out how to wire all this stuff...because you don't have to. All you have to do is provide a 110v power source at each location. You will have 5 AP's total, mounted near the locations shown in the picture. The ONLY AP that will need to be wired is the one right in the middle at the manager's office (marked in red). The other AP's will communicate wirelessly (hop) from one to another. Basically,AP1 at the top of the picture will have only the MAC address of the AP2 programmed into it. AP2 will only have AP1 and AP3 MACs, AP3 will have AP2 and AP4, etc.
You could mount these on the ceiling under the overhang and your electrician should be able to pull a 110v outlet for you off on of the lights thats probably mounted on the overhang. You would just need to plan a little bit on where exactly each AP would be mouted, as you want to give them the best line of sight between one another as possible. The DLink AP's cost around $150/ea x 5 = $750 + the cost of a ~50ft ethernet cable to connect to the cable modem. And you don't even need to get a switch if you don't want to, as you could plug AP3 directly into the back of the cable modem.
Also, if security/tampering is an issue, you could always get a few of the large tinted security camera domes to mount over them. the glass should have minimal effect on the signal.
thanks man,
Kevin
tplaya07:kman- you should REALLY look into the Dlink DWL-3200AP's or some similar commercial grade wireless AP/bridge. I promise it will save you a TON of headaches trying to figure out how to wire all this stuff...because you don't have to. All you have to do is provide a 110v power source at each location. You will have 5 AP's total, mounted near the locations shown in the picture. The ONLY AP that will need to be wired is the one right in the middle at the manager's office (marked in red). The other AP's will communicate wirelessly (hop) from one to another. Basically,AP1 at the top of the picture will have only the MAC address of the AP2 programmed into it. AP2 will only have AP1 and AP3 MACs, AP3 will have AP2 and AP4, etc.
You could mount these on the ceiling under the overhang and your electrician should be able to pull a 110v outlet for you off on of the lights thats probably mounted on the overhang. You would just need to plan a little bit on where exactly each AP would be mouted, as you want to give them the best line of sight between one another as possible. The DLink AP's cost around $150/ea x 5 = $750 + the cost of a ~50ft ethernet cable to connect to the cable modem. And you don't even need to get a switch if you don't want to, as you could plug AP3 directly into the back of the cable modem.
Also, if security/tampering is an issue, you could always get a few of the large tinted security camera domes to mount over them. the glass should have minimal effect on the signal.
Yeah, before we installed the AP's, we tested them at my partner's house. We plugged one up and set it in the window sil. We then walked outside with his laptop and started walking down the road. We maintained a 54Mbps signal all the way to around 200-250ft. Granted this was direct line of sight and will vary greatly depending on the quality of the wireless adapter the client is using, but this was a average run of the mill Intel ProSet wireless card on a Gateway. We also hooked up a second AP about 250ft away from the first (plugged into the side of neigbors house) and ended up walking another 400-500 ft before we completely lost signal (about ~700ft away 1st AP).
Buy one or two, and play around with them. I really think this is the best type of solution, regardless of which equipment you go with. I only speak about the Dlink, because that's what I'm familiar with and they seemed to get great reviews everywhere I looked. However, DMT's suggestion of the engenious equipment might be a feasable one too. Just read reviews on the equipment before you buy it.
Buy one or two, and play around with them. I really think this is the best type of solution, regardless of which equipment you go with. I only speak about the Dlink, because that's what I'm familiar with and they seemed to get great reviews everywhere I looked. However, DMT's suggestion of the engenious equipment might be a feasable one too. Just read reviews on the equipment before you buy it.
I am tell you look at ruckus, they are designed for exactly what you are trying to do!!
ASKER
woodall01:I am tell you look at ruckus, they are designed for exactly what you are trying to do
a. I promise to contact them on Monday.
What did you find out?
ASKER
Thanks for all your help. In the end they did not have the money. So we did nothing, later I found out that they had 3 other companies out there, in the months before, all too high in price.
Just put in a few Wifi routers.. bridge them and offer Wifi.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17
Connect one to the internet router and the others would be bridged to the first one.
http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/Category.aspx?id=17