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is Delphi Dead?

Whats the best to use [programming language]? c#.net?  c++(ms/builder)?  vb.net? or Shall we stick on Delphi even is Dead.

If will continue to use [Delphi], what kind of software were building?  is it ( for database application?   for utility tools(like personal anti virus or disk management)?  others?

Whats your comment ee programming experts?
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rionroc
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rionroc
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rfwoolfCommented:
I've started to apply for delphi jobs, and a lot of the recruiting agencies say that 1) They are desperate for Delphi Developers and 2) There aren't so many Delphi positions available anymore.
There used to be Delphi jobs because a lot of companies used Delphi for their applications and they needed Delphi developers to maintain their applications. Then slowly they have moved their Delphi applications to .NET, and a lot of those Delphi developers have moved with them. And so now, the only Delphi positions left are at those companies that haven't moved their Delphi projects/systems to .NET or other languages.
For the record I don't think Delphi is 'dead', it's not that simple. But Delphi no longer has the 'edge' that it used to - a lot of the other languages and RAD tools have caught up with Delphi where they used to fall short.
Let me tell you something you need to know about the IT industry - it changes fast and there's always pressure to keep your CV up to date with fresh skills and new technologies - there's pressure to go and study all the time. People that start with Delphi soon end up learning C#, VB etc, they get their MCSEs or MCSAs or A+'s or Sun Certification, Ruby on Rails etc. So don't be so surprised to see the industry shifting.
Personally though, I'm not in a mad rush to move away from Delphi, even if it means in 3-6 years there won't be any work.
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8080_DiverCommented:
Take a look at Delphi 2009.  It has an improved IDE and a lot of other things going for it.  Also, there are several (maybe not a huge number, but several) delphi gigs avaialbe.
I have been using Delphi since it first came out (I got D1 about 2 weeks after it went pulbic ;-) and I am still working in it.  I have also been doing a bit in C# and I can tell you that Delphi is a much mor RAD tool than C#.  I have tried using VB and VB.Net and Delphi is more powereful and a much more RAD tool than those.
Admittedly, if everything you are going to do is going to be web based, then C# and ASP.Net wil probably be a better choice.  However, for desktop apps and commandline apps (especially if you are working with databases), then my weapon of choice would still be Delphi.
An awful lot of companies bought into the Dot-Net campaign and started moving everything to C# or VB.Net.  That's fine for web apps but, if you happen to need to have a desktop app, well, let's just say it is awfully easy to reverse engineer a dot net app and extract any passwords, filepaths, network paths, or anything else that might be coded into them.  The other choice is to code it into a couple of other types of files (also easily reverse engineered) that are the "replacement" for INI files.  
Fortunatel for me, I don't expect to be in the profession all that much longer (after 40 years, I am ready to move on to database architecting and woodworking ;-).  However, were I several years younger, I'd probably go back to being a Road Warrior and I'd take some of the Delphi gigs that are being offered in some interesting places. ;-)
Heck, I still reach for Delphi when I need to do a Quick and Dirty appto solve a problem.
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
I am a great fan of Delphi, allways have been, probably allways will be ...
Many companies use Delphi to fill in the gaps, why ?
Because you can do it all with Delphi.
I went to a presentation of Delphi 2009 and i must say Embarcadero are really pushing to get it back on the shelf.
The top shelf that is.  Just take a look at Delphi Prism.
And now they even changed the licensing, buy 2 products or 3 and you got access to 30 products ...
The thing is that Delphi is not taught at schools any more.
Just the basic pascal syntax, and here and there a sort algorithm.
They teach .Net at schools now, and java and C#.
Maybe Embarcadero or companies will start a co-venture with schools, then ... the boost would come again.
But alas, .Net, C# and Java are better for the payroll.
Due to the crisis i had to make a choice for a new job so I put my CV online
I got 6 delphi vacancies here in Belgium, within a week, could start immediately, ...
so yes, they are desperate.
Now i took a job as Oracle DBA, and all the scripting and difficult stuff i do in ... yes Delphi !
Its just a great tool for building tools for daily work.
I couldn't miss it.  Especially for fast, quick and dirty tools ... :)
And once you have been programming a couple of years, you've got yourself a library you can pick from.
And EE is a vast resource too ...

Anyway the more distinct we come the better the pay will get ...
People pay a lot for unique skills !
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Let me answer your question with another question:-

Is COBOL dead?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/apr/09/cobol-internet-programming

;-)


...and another one...

Is FORTRAN dead?

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-fortran-compiler-for-linux-support-resources/

---

My view is that, in the right hands (ok a big caveat, but let me continue), Delphi code is likely to contain less bugs per line.  Why?  Because things need to be declared properly before being used, and there is the ability to have strong "typing".  You can have an integer variable called oranges and another one called lemons.  Even though both are integers you can prevent coders from inadvertantly adding lemons into an oranges variable.  Compare this to some languages where you can assign X=1, and at that point X can be an integer, a floating point variable, a string, a boolean operator, only subsequent usage can distill out a proper definition of what that variable actually contains.  This is important for coding to be used in high-integrity applications - but then again, looking at the state of the world economies, who cares anymore?  Sigh, perhaps you are right...
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BdLmCommented:
I few month ago I found a web page with compiler market share overview
 
java, C#, c++  each ~ 15 ...20 %
delphi + pascal ~ 6 %
fortan , mathlab, ....  <  1 %
assume delphi is by far not dead
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
O yes

Thanks for the comments.
I have another post, I hope with this you can help me with a quick or dirty solution.
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Q_24356495.html
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
This is why I posted "is Delphi Dead"  because I wondered why now a days is different from the old days,  that questions are directly answered by experts and as I noticed that there are much Delphi experts yesterday than this days.  Other Expert-Exchange Delphi Guru's and Geniuses are gone as I noticed and when I scanned EE-Delphi-experts.

And hopefully is not yet dead and someones gonna answer my other post as a mentioned above.

I don't know if Delphi is capable to solve that question or any other method that will result a good output.

Cheers!
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
sometimes posts do not get answered because nobody currently looking in EE
has the experience (sometimes not the time either ...)
doesn't mean delphi is dead
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moorhouselondonCommented:
The reason for silence on your other Q could have more to do with the dubious reputation ActiveX might have, rather than anything to do with Delphi itself.
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Paer ToernellCommented:
Well i am in a similar situation, i did enter two questions:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Internet/Q_24354958.html
and
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Q_24355059.html

I been a way in other activities for a while, but as i remember a few moths ago i would have the answers within hours, now there have gone two days. But then i did enter them on a Saturday morning (Thai-time) and i really hope thats the reason. Without Delphi help on Experts Exchange my programming life would indeed be miserable.
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
also add the fact that some real experts aren't posting anymore: ziolko and ciuly
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Ziolko's absence might be not programming language related...

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Q_24036296.html
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
O'Really Delphi is Dead!

So, whats my next move, shall I close this post and delete my other delphi post?
It's hard wait'en for them both, and they are not here anymore for help.
I hope someone could.  Where are they?!
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BdLmCommented:
may be the time is bad for free of money support for others ( at least in my case)  :-)

hard fighting on other delphi projects  (with a paying customer)
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8080_DiverCommented:

Well i am in a similar situation, i did enter two questions
Guys, one of the problems that you may have in getting questions answered (besides the time of day and day of week you choose to ask them) is that you may be choosing to ask about doing things that, quite frankly, require more time and effort to answer than those of us who are (also) working for a living can dedicate pro bono.  
For instance, the question about filling in a spot on a web page and then emulating the click of a button on that page takes a bit of code.  I have done it several times but, to be perfectly honest, I do that sort of thing for about $35 - $45 / hr and not pro bono because it takes time and effort.
Yes, there are fewer Delphi programmers out there.  There may also be fewer Delphi Gurus.  However, something to consider is that, in many situations, those who are out there working in the profession are having greater limitations put on their "non-billable time" and greater expectations put on their performeance and billable time.  (Ever heard the phrase, "The company just has to do more with less."? ;-)
The comment about the ActiveX question was on target, also.  If you are out there using things that some of us have tried and discarded, you are less likely to get a response precisely because we discarded them for a reason and we don't want to go back to them (again for a reason).  
I corresond with guys in the UK, other areas of the US, Australia, and a couple of other places regarding Delphi and Delphi develpment.  Delphi isn't dead . . . at least, not in my universe. ;-)  However, the mantra "Delphi Is Dead" can become a self fulfilling prophecy if "everyone" says it and believes it and move to another language.  
The reason COBOL has survived at least 40 years of being declared dead is that there was too much COBOL code to convert to any other language and the COBOL Programmers ignored the obituaries and coded on.  So, since there is a lot of Delphi "legacy" code out there, if we ignore the obituaries and continue to demonstrate the power of Delphi, Delphi, too, will probably survive.
I still have a bumper sticker from a BorCon I attended: "Delphi Rocks!" and Delphi still does. ;-)
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BdLmCommented:
BTW:   I used the C++ Boost graph lib with several trouble and I posted here several questions in the C++  EE forum,
Like you I did not get good answers from EE.

May be you can not conclude a missing answer from EE means a programming language is dead, hope Delphi and C++ will survive  :-)
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>I still have a bumper sticker from a BorCon I attended: "Delphi Rocks!" and Delphi still does. ;-)

I used to have a cyan-coloured "Turbo Pascal" umbrella which was so damn reliable come wind, rain, hail, had it for years, then inevitably it got nicked.  Compare that with the freebies Microsoft used to give out: all the sweat shirts got moth holes in them and I had to throw 'em out.  ;-)
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
OK, @8080 diver

So you mean to say that, if we should publish our project/programmed/developed, we should include where it was made?!  That is Delphi?!

We can do that!, but some of us programmers/developers pretend that our prog/proj was made by M$c++ instead by Delphi, or we just simply say to egnorant people (who ask) it was made by .Net Language.

That's true, maybe few, and we should not do that anymore, incase we had.
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moorhouselondonCommented:
>So you mean to say that, if we should publish our project/programmed/developed, we should include where it was made?!  That is Delphi?!

Why not?  A loose analogy is an advert that MK used to run in the Electrical Trade mags.  The title was along the lines of "You can tell a good electrician by the kind of mess he leaves..."  The picture showed a bin overflowing with empty MK packaging.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
In my mind if we gonna let them know its made from delphi or any language, they might have more idea to hack it.

OR

Disgrace the person who make it because it was made on a language that they are only laughting on it. eq. Delphi lang.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
Until now my other post is Zero comment,
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Q_24356495.html

I don't know how to conclude either Delphi is really "dead" so I can switch to other language, but the problem is I've already began the development with Delphi, if, so switching to other language may be difficult, and also if I transfer the code to other language, maybe I cannot finish it to, because solving the problem in Delphi is difficult, what about some other language I hope someone could help and not only waiting for Sir cuily or zoilku, or even madsi.
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
>>Until now my other post is Zero comment,
also consider that there may not be experts on EE at this time who can solve this.
there are other forums like the one on embarcadero/borland
one of the things i have figured out in all these years ...
solutions to difficult things usually are not found easily
and sometimes have not been solved yet
so we need to find them ourselves.

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8080_DiverCommented:
I find it interesting that anyone would "pretend" that a product that was created using Delphi or C++Builder had actaully been created using a MS tool.  At best, that is a form of false or misleading advertising and, at worst, it is a form of fraud.  Is it because you are ashamed to admit that you use Delphi?  Or is it that you feel that anything with the label "Hecho con Microsoft" is inherently a better product?
Shouldn't we be proud not only of our work but of the tools we use to do our work?  
Do you drive almost to work and then park out of sight because you are ashamed of your choice of automobile?
So you mean to say that, if we should publish our project/programmed/developed, we should include where it was made?!  That is Delphi?!
Damned straight!   I add a comment in the Project information on my products that specifically states that "This product was created using Delphi [whatever version]."  Delphi is my weapon of choice and, as such, I see no reason that it shouldn't be given credit for what I have been able to do.  
But, then again, when I was in my early 40's and got divorced, I continued to drive my Ford Aerostar instead of trying to get some sort of "chick-magnet-mobile".  I figured that anyone who went out with me should go out with me and not my vehicle.  (By the way, the lady I wound up married found my vehicle quite handy for hauling stuff around and is, IMHO, heaven sent. ;-)
I say, proclaim your tool of choice loudly and proudly.  If you pretend you're using a MS tool, how can you expect Delphi to thrive?
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moorhouselondonCommented:
I don't think there is any reason to hide the fact you code in Delphi, quite the opposite I think  - certainly the UK Banks have used it for some of their (high integrity) client banking apps, and (bumping into an ex work colleague recently) I understand London Underground use it for (high reliability) signal engineering purposes.  

I am still managing clients who are using business-critical systems written by us for them in Delphi 1.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
>also add the fact that some real experts aren't posting anymore: ziolko and ciuly

I think the real one is madsi, ziolko and ciuly are just sibling of madsi.

But madsi is gone, I hope there is one.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
>Delphi is my weapon of choice
My Delphi worrying was uplift a little. (But I'll follow you 8080 diver, that's right)

Yes! moorhouselondon
Oh! I have heard in London, Delphi is pretty famous, is it true? and a lot of them are using it instead of MS.NET?
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moorhouselondonCommented:
Embac... (still can't get my head round that name) and Codegear before them run/ran a load of seminars here in London - none of them have been held in a telephone box.
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8080_DiverCommented:
Okay, all of y'all across the pond in the land of Chaucer and the Beatles, any chance y'all need some assistance in the form of remote workers? ;-)  Tag teaming with a 6hr delay (i.e. about a 2 to 3 hour overlap) can provide an "extended work day"! ;-)
Seriously, though (although, "many a true word is spoken in jest" ;-), I know of a good bit of Delphi work "across the pond" and even in Australia (another place I could imagine volunteering for on a contract basis ;-).  I have theories about why MS has been doing a good job of convincing everyone that Delphi is dead . . . I'm old enough to remember the "bad old days" of IBM when "Big Blue" pretty much ran the show here in the US.  I never bought the Big Blue line and I still don't.  I also refuse to accept MS's claims about killing every other language.  
Yes, MS is pretty dominant but that doesn't mean they are the best option every time.  I just don't buy their line about Dot Net being the be all and end all of every conceivable kind of programming.  IMHO, Delphi still kicks butt in the arena of desktop apps and commandline apps.
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BdLmCommented:
the clear structure of the pacal language compared to C++ might be one argument that pascal will never die.  (see wiki below)








Heute findet Pascal im universitären Bereich (Entwicklung/Ausbildung) und in sicherheitskritischen Bereichen (z. B. Verkehrstechnik, Energieversorgung, Medizintechnik, Raumfahrt, Militär, teilweise im Banken- und Versicherungswesen) Anwendung. Dies beruht hauptsächlich auf der guten Prüfbarkeit und Wartbarkeit des Codes und der klaren Zuordnung der Variablen. So ist die 2005 eingeführte Betriebsleittechnik IV der Transrapid-Versuchsanlage Emsland in Pascal programmiert

Open in new window

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senadCommented:
I think .Net technology sucks big time and is headed for the recycle bin.
What Delphi needs is 64 bit compiler ....



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rionrocAuthor Commented:
Oh!

What do you mean?, can you elaborate more!
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senadCommented:
apps done in net technology are painfully slow and tend to crash more often.
Just look what they did to Nero (go compare installation/execution time of Nero 6 and Nero 9)....
64 bit compiler we need to get our apps working on 64 bit machines.
There is nothing other programming apps can do that you can't do with Delphi.
Delphi will probably outlive all the rest.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
If 64bit is the problem of Delphi, why can't they upgrade it.
(that If they really want Delphi to continue kicking)

@senad
So, you mean to say, is to leave Delphi?, and touch .NET?  because it has only a 64bit prog apps?

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senadCommented:
"If 64bit is the problem of Delphi, why can't they upgrade it."
This is a good question.
Perhaps borland is waiting for 124 bit processors which are on the horizont.
Who knows....
Net technology is Microsoft dependent and we all know how that turns out in the end.They are pushing enormous amounts of money to propagate the stuff but I think it is doomed allready.Net applications are history.Do you remember nice stories about network computers and similar crap.Net based applications?Network office? Network storage?Where are they now?Meanwhile  they are trying to promote the Sliverlight in the same way to muscle out Adobe Flash.
32 bit applications will be in use for many many years to come.
Just look at the way users rejected Vista and stayed with XP.Not even Windows 7 will replace XP in a long time.Companies are not idiots with money to waste on fancy looking applications.
My advice is to stay with Delphi.
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senadCommented:
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senadCommented:
In spite of Microsoft's years of marketing and "customer education," most customers never came to understand what .NET is. Is .NET an OS? Is it a development tool? What's the .NET tie-in to the .NET server products such as Microsoft Exchange 2008 Server and Microsoft SQL Server 2008? Although Microsoft spent plenty of time and money trying to answer these simple questions over the course of 6 years, it was never able to successfully articulate the answers in a way that typical customers could relate to.
Yes .NET will die off. That is why Visual Studio is now losing the .NET name (next version). Too many companies adopted the .NET technology without understanding when it should be used.
.NET just prepare for burial.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
>Just look at the way users rejected Vista and stayed with XP.Not even Windows 7 will replace XP in a long time.Companies are not idiots with money to waste on fancy looking applications.
My advice is to stay with Delphi.

That is a nice answer, "senad", a wise answer.

Just waiting for other experts on that comment of yours.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
we are working to create a new Delphi and a new compiler architecture, to keep your existing code working, to emit 64-bit binaries using both Delphi and C++Builder, and maybe a few other kind of binaries while we are at it. And it all has to be done right so that it all works for you.

And you know what? That is exactly what we plan to do.

I'm surprise!

I love it.  Now I'm more uplifted.   I guess I have to stay on Delphi.  I will.  We will.

Cheers!
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
So, where should we stick?  Delphi IDE or Delphi.NET?

OK, I've not use Delphi.NET, is this also a standalone application? Or .Net framework will also be needed upon application runs?

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senadCommented:
"Just waiting for other experts on that comment of yours."
Well,sale figures tell the tale and user reactions do the rest...
Also Micrposoft "forgets" to mention that most Vistas they "sold" were OEM (usually loaded on new laptips).
How much did they sell in a shop buy ?
That many users wont switch from XP to Vista is a known fact.Do not want to comment Vista functionality  because dont want to waste time.I had Vista the day it came out and threw it out the same day.
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
Listening...

@senad,
Thank you, but well wait for another comment, lets see whats there comment about your comment.
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
>>rionroc
But madsi is gone, I hope there is one.

Nope, he's still here, if you need him ... he has his own forum on www.madshi.net
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rionrocAuthor Commented:
Hello Wizard Geert

In your experience in Delphi, do you think my other post is to hard/difficult?
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Pascal/Delphi/Q_24356495.html
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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
i admit you have an excellent example of code to start from and look the solution.
i have nearly no experience with ActiveX, except the one off creating a excel report.
i changed that too the DevExpress export to excel, so no more problems there.

my idea would be to send a windows message with a pchar for the title to the form using the handle
or create a file in a directory being monitored by the other app
the other app then opens the file and shows what's in.

The most used way of communicating between 2 apps is with files

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Geert GruwezOracle dbaCommented:
and yes, it is a difficult subject
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MunggaranCommented:
In my opinion, Delphi is no.1 community language which only can grow if released as open source because I think Embarcadero is hard to put something new since if they put new thing it will kill the 3rd party.

exampe :
if delphi 2009 have sophisticated grid, then what will devExpress gonna be ?
if delphi 2009 have direct mysql, then what microOlap gonna be ?
if delphi 2009 have advanced IDE, then what CodeRush gonna be ?

it's hard to find something new to be planted on new version of Delphi, because they cannot add already 3rd party features except if Embarcadero accusing them.  
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