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Random Abrupt Reboots

Posted on 2009-05-01
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Last Modified: 2013-11-09
I have a newer custom built PC that is randomly abruptly rebooting.  Hard power off, so anything I am doing is lost.  I built 4 of these, and 3 work great.  (No longer close enough to easily swap parts though).  
I'm suspecting hardware because I've re-imaged multiple times and still have the problem.  I've done my best to update all drivers.
I'm suspecting hardware but I am unsure, and mainly unsure of which piece is broken.  Please help me figure out what to test and how to test it!

Computer specs: GIGABYTE GA-73PVM-S2H motherboard, A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) ADQVE1B16K memory, Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53 GHZ Dual-Core, 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS, Antec earthwatts EA380 380W power supply, LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner GH22NS30, Rosewill R230-P-BK Case

This one has a RAID mirror, but same problem without the RAID mirror.

The crashes happen anywhere from once a week to twice a day... so very tough diagnose.

In the event viewer I see the following two relevant entries when it powers back on.  
1. The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x10000050 (0xc263657c, 0x00000000, 0x80505f17, 0x00000000). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini050109-02.dmp.
2 .System Error: Error code 10000050, parameter1 c263657c, parameter2 00000000, parameter3 80505f17, parameter4 00000000.

This is the contents of the latest dump file:

Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.11.0001.404 X86
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


Loading Dump File [C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini041309-01.dmp]
Mini Kernel Dump File: Only registers and stack trace are available

Symbol search path is: *** Invalid ***
****************************************************************************
* Symbol loading may be unreliable without a symbol search path.           *
* Use .symfix to have the debugger choose a symbol path.                   *
* After setting your symbol path, use .reload to refresh symbol locations. *
****************************************************************************
Executable search path is:
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
*                                                                   *
* The Symbol Path can be set by:                                    *
*   using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable.                 *
*   using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
*   using .sympath and .sympath+                                    *
*********************************************************************
Unable to load image ntoskrnl.exe, Win32 error 0n2
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for ntoskrnl.exe
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for ntoskrnl.exe
Windows XP Kernel Version 2600 (Service Pack 3) MP (2 procs) Free x86 compatible
Product: WinNt, suite: TerminalServer SingleUserTS
Machine Name:
Kernel base = 0x804d7000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x8055d720
Debug session time: Mon Apr 13 20:38:06.312 2009 (GMT-4)
System Uptime: 0 days 13:16:46.883
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
*                                                                   *
* The Symbol Path can be set by:                                    *
*   using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable.                 *
*   using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
*   using .sympath and .sympath+                                    *
*********************************************************************
Unable to load image ntoskrnl.exe, Win32 error 0n2
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for ntoskrnl.exe
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for ntoskrnl.exe
Loading Kernel Symbols
...............................................................
................................................................
...
Loading User Symbols
Loading unloaded module list
..............
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information.

BugCheck 1000000A, {0, 2, 1, 8050a7e0}

***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

*************************************************************************
***                                                                   ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Your debugger is not using the correct symbols                 ***
***                                                                   ***
***    In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path   ***
***    must point to .pdb files that have full type information.      ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not      ***
***    contain the required information.  Contact the group that      ***
***    provided you with these symbols if you need this command to    ***
***    work.                                                          ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Type referenced: nt!_KPRCB                                     ***
***                                                                   ***
*************************************************************************

* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
*                                                                   *
* The Symbol Path can be set by:                                    *
*   using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable.                 *
*   using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
*   using .sympath and .sympath+                                    *
*********************************************************************
*********************************************************************
* Symbols can not be loaded because symbol path is not initialized. *
*                                                                   *
* The Symbol Path can be set by:                                    *
*   using the _NT_SYMBOL_PATH environment variable.                 *
*   using the -y <symbol_path> argument when starting the debugger. *
*   using .sympath and .sympath+                                    *
*********************************************************************
Probably caused by : ntoskrnl.exe ( nt+337e0 )

Followup: MachineOwner
---------



There's one section that repeats a lot that I trimmed out.


Also,  when I still had one of the other identical machines, I swapped ram and had same problem.  I then RMA'd the motherboard.  Same problem.   Does anyone thing my problem could be the CPU and/or power supply.  
Please help, I've spent an incredibly long time on this.    
Currently, it passes MemTest, but next I plan to run memtest for like a day or two and see what happens.
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Question by:rathrbsk8n
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23 Comments
 
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Expert Comment

by:andeporter
ID: 24282163
Right after it shutdowns, if you crack open the case, does it feel "too hot"?
It seems very strange that it just turns off, no shutdown procedure at all?
Also, are all of your fans working properly, in particular the PSU fan?
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Expert Comment

by:Callandor
ID: 24282318
Not likely the cpu - those rarely have problems, and when they do, you usually can't even boot.  Power supply problems are much more common and are easy to check - just swap out the power supply from another machine with similar power requirements.
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Assisted Solution

by:Jonvee
Jonvee earned 940 total points
ID: 24282620
A few more ideas although you may have tried a number of them already ..
Inspect & reseat all accessible connectors and expansion cards (you've probably done this?).

The mobo has to come under scrutiny, have you checked for leaking capacitors?  

Run a hard disk diagnostic >
"Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities":
http://tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=287

Although you did a memtest & the RAM(s) passed, no Tester is perfect so suggest you consider a replacement RAM at some stage.

Also ensure that anti-virus and anti-Malware apps are updated.  

Remove as many optional hardware components as possible.  Then reinstall each in turn in an attempt to track down the culprit.

Conceivably it's a corrupted driver, or an onboard NIC failure.  If the latter, see if you can disable the NIC in the BIOS.

These links should help>
Windows XP Restarts When You Try to Shut Down Your Computer:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=311806

Windows XP Shutdown & Restart Troubleshooting:
http://www.aumha.org/a/shtdwnxp.htm

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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24283102
Thank you all three of you for your prompt replies.

andeporter,  all fans are working. Most crashes are during idle time which is about 24C for CPU and 39C for system. Yes it powers off with no shut down, it rarely happens when I'm using it but when it does, I could be reading my e-mail, blink and see the bios screen, sometimes BSOD.  

Callondor, CPU-agreed, not likely.  PSU, agreed, but I don't have one handy, I'll have to try to get my hands on one.  This problem started in Nov when I built these, I've kinda been ignoring it bc of time.  I believe I tried swapping the PSU back then but I could be wrong, I will try to do this again.  

Jonvee,
No expansion cards.  And w/ replacing the whole mobo I've reconntected everything.

I've checked harddrives with diagnostic, I was also hoping it was faulty raid and went back to IDE and ACHI, no help.

In november, I swapped the RAM with one of the other 3 identicals, and swapped back.  It's tough to test a problem that happens randomly every few days.  Perhaps I will try running on one of the two sticks for a while and then switch to 2nd and see what happens.

Anti-virus - I'm very good about this stuff, I couldn't count the years since the last virus I saw, it's up to date and this problem has continued across re-image and flash of bios.

Hardware, I did try doing this back in November, but think about the logistics of testing a problem that happens every x often, where x is not defined. In theory this problem could go a month with no problem (hasn't happened) or crash 5 times a day.  This is normally my avenue to find faulty hardware as well, but in my case doesn't seem practical.

Drivers-I've updated all to the best of my ability.  Again like I said I've redone the build as well.

NIC- I really like this idea, and I HOPE that this is right.  I'm going to disable the onboard and insert another, and see what happens.



Also, the file listed in that dump info, when I searched it, the search said something about keyboard drivers.  Could my keyboard really crash my computer?  I've used it with several other custom builds in the past.


THANKS for the help.



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Expert Comment

by:Jonvee
ID: 24283341
Thanks for the feedback ...  perhaps it is the NIC.

>Could my keyboard really crash my computer<
It's conceivable with a PS/2 keyboard.  Perhaps you have a spare keyboard you could try.
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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24283403
Let say I'm leaning toward it being the power supply, or perhaps even power source.  Just came to the realization that this is the first PC I've ever placed at this location.  Any recommendations on how I can test PSU without swapping it with another?  And looks like I'll be taking an AVR there too.
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by:Jonvee
ID: 24283748
Far easier just to exchange the power unit if you can find a spare, rather than testing it.  If in any doubt regarding capacity, replace it with a larger unit.  

Basic, but helpful perhaps>
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/toolsofthetrade/f/powersupplytest.htm

Useful power consumption comments by spiderfix >
http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/XP/Q_24209162.html#a23827908

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Assisted Solution

by:dbrunton
dbrunton earned 200 total points
ID: 24283810
Just suggestions.

Check for bad connections.  Disconnect connections and examine for burn marks especially power connection to motherboard.  Wobble the connections in their socket (I have a hard disk where if you do this you can cause a momentary short because the logic board is loose).  Check the heat coming out of the back of the PSU.  If hot treat it as suspect.  If this box has a graphics card check that the fan on it spins freely.  Check that all other fans in this box spin freely.
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Expert Comment

by:Callandor
ID: 24284804
>Useful power consumption comments by spiderfix

Spiderfix's explanation of powered USB hubs is a little bizarre - my powered hub has a 5v transformer, and it does not split the voltage across 4 ports in series, but supplies them in parallel.  I wouldn't use those comments as a reference.
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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24430828
Want to check power source first.
AVR battery needed to be replaced, and I just got that in yesterday.
System crashed 5/3 5/13 5/15 and 5/19 (about 3 hours before the battery arrived).

I'll repost after next crash or in about 2-3 weeks if things run well.

Also, no expansion cards in this machine at all.

Since it'll take me up to two weeks to test each swapped part, I'm really hoping that someone has a more concrete answer?  Of course I do really appreciate all of the comments and help thus far (and please do keep them coming), but I've already spent far to long trying to fix a this stupid desktop.

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by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24432275
Didn't have to wait very long.  System crashed 30 minutes ago and actually it was only a few minutes after a reboot, before I even got around to logging in.  AVR log shows no voltage issues occurred with the power source.

What should I try next?
1. NIC, put in expansion NIC, and disable unboard NIC.
2. PSU, swap.
3. Anything else?

I'll have to acquire the above hardware.  I also plan to do a visual inspection of capacitors.

I also noticed a new error popping up in my event view quite a bit:

The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk0\D.

The really weird thing is that D: is my CD rom drive.

Help.
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Expert Comment

by:dbrunton
ID: 24435971
You could try running a Live Linux CD such as Knoppix or Ubuntu and see if the same problem still occurs.  That'll narrow it down to software or hardware.
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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24527195
I've visually looked over all capacitors on the motherboard, and they all look ok. (all flat tops, nothing raised).

I've re-run memtest86 for an extended period, no errors.

Crashes seem to be becoming more frequent.

I can't attach .dmp files here, apparently, so http://71.230.95.240:56/dmps.zip is a link to a zip of my recent minidumps.  If anyone can analyze them, please help.

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by:Jonvee
ID: 24527538
Ok, but can you please rename the .zip to .txt before you try attaching (for the upload), and i'll take a look.
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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24527642
The extension of one or more files in the archive is not in the list of allowed extensions: Dmps/Mini040909-01.dmp

This site, figures out it's a zip, even if i call it .txt and won't let me upload .dmp's.

There's is now also a link to http://71.230.95.240:56/dmps.txt you will of course have to rename that to a zip.

Thanks.   Please note that different dumps of different "probable causes".
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Assisted Solution

by:Jonvee
Jonvee earned 940 total points
ID: 24527764
Managed to analyse one of your Crash dumps from the zip file and nv4_disp.dll is reported to be the likely cause.   i'll check several more dumps before conclusion, but you may wish to look under Device manager.  Click the '+' sign next to display adaptors, right click on your video adapter, and select uninstall.    Reboot, and see if there's an improvement.

Possible resolutions>
Blue screen of Death "nv4_disp.dll"
http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread18930.html
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Accepted Solution

by:
Jonvee earned 940 total points
ID: 24528011
Analysed another six crash dumps and get a range of failures, as you intimated.
This suggests that it could be a memory problem, and would throw the suspicion back to your RAM(s) >>

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0xA_W_nt!MiSegmentDelete+32
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x8E_nt!ExAllocatePoolWithTag+66a
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x24_Ntfs!NtfsLookupEntry+42
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  MEMORY_CORRUPTION_ONE_BIT
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x8E_nt!ExDeferredFreePool+162
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID:  0x50_nt!MiLocateAndReserveWsle+51
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by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24528752
Thanks, so much for spending the time on this.  
Like I said I ran the memtest86 against this overnight with no errors?  
Also, I noticed the nv4_disp as well and upgraded the video drivers, I had a Jan 09 driver, now have march '09 (most recent crash is with new driver).  The 3 other machines I made have a 2007 driver, I will prob revert.

Also, since I have an integrated video card w/ shared memory, it's using some RAM, does that affect the memtest?  
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Expert Comment

by:Jonvee
ID: 24529001
Thanks for the feedback.   Incidently i understand your comments regarding Memtest86 and the overnight run, but to my knowledge there is no RAM Tester in existance that can guarantee diagnosing a faulty RAM, even though Memtest is probably the best.
A better method would be to exchange the RAM for another, if you still happen to have spares.  
Suggest you remove all RAM sticks except one, then reboot & check for improvements.

Not sure about the integrated video card w/ shared memory question, but exchanging RAM would resolve that query.
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Expert Comment

by:dbrunton
ID: 24532258
You can also remove the memory sticks and wipe clean with a dry cloth.  Blow out memory slots and reseat.  In a lot of cases (my machines) this fixes problems.  Also blow out any dust in the box.
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Author Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 24685518
Currently, I believe I've narrowed this problem to either driver issues, or a faulty memory stick/memory slot.
I noticed a few dumps pointing to nvidia graphics drivers and found other posts on the net with VERY VERY similar errors regarding the same onboard graphics card.  
I reformatted and stuck with a 2007 version of the graphics drivers instead of two available from 2009.  The 2007 version is the one on the other 3 computers I built for others.  
I also swapped the PSU with one of the other three machines.
I also removed all hardware I could during several reformats for troubleshooting.  Currently I've been running the new image with only 1 of 2 memory sticks and things were very very stable for over a week.
When I popped the 2nd chip in both IE and Firefox began experiencing frequent crashes.  I ran memtest many times reseated a few.  One time that I ran Memtest i got millions of errors in chip two and 1 error on chip 1.  But perhaps I didn't seat it correctly because once reseated memtest began passing again.

I'm closing this question and going to split some points up.
I appreciate everyone that attempted to help with problem.
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Author Closing Comment

by:rathrbsk8n
ID: 31577006
Thanks a lot,  I wish we could have solved this and been 100% sure, if I ever get a concrete answer I'll post.  Right now I'm managing the situation OK.
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Expert Comment

by:Jonvee
ID: 24686706
Thanks for the report, glad to help.   Yes, pity we couldn't resolve it between us but post back if something else does turn up.
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