Which Processor for a Dell Precision T7500 Workstation
I am considering a 64-bit Dell Precision T7500 Workstation, primarily to accommodate video (and audio) processing and working with large Excel spreadsheets. The video and audio is for videos such as narrated PowerPoint presentations or talking heads giving a talk about something. It is not fast-paced action. The spreadsheets can be 50MB files with 50,000+ rows and 40 columns.
I am focusing on the T7500 since the other high-end models have one or more deficiencies (in my view) as listed:
XPS 730x: only 3 memory slots, max 6 GB RAM
Studio XPS 435: 475W power supply
Studio XPS: 360W power supply
Below is the list of optional Intel Xeon processors currently available for the T7500 including the incremental price for each. Which would you choose? Why?
Thank you!
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor W5580 3.20GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo [add $2,000]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5570 2.93GHz,8M L3,6.4GT/s,turbo [add $1,450]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5560, 2.8GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo [add $1,320]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5550 2.66GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s,turbo [add $1,200]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5540 2.53GHz,8M L3, 5.8GT/s,turbo [add $900]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5530 2.4GHz,8M L3,5.8GT/s, turbo [add $550]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5520 2.26GHz,8M L3, 5.8GT/s,turbo [add $300]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5506 2.13GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [add $200]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5504 2.0GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [add $90]
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5502 1.86GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [Included in Price]
I am focusing on the T7500 since the other high-end models have one or more deficiencies (in my view) as listed:
XPS 730x: only 3 memory slots, max 6 GB RAM
Studio XPS 435: 475W power supply
Studio XPS: 360W power supply
Below is the list of optional Intel Xeon processors currently available for the T7500 including the incremental price for each. Which would you choose? Why?
Thank you!
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor W5580 3.20GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo [add $2,000]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5570 2.93GHz,8M L3,6.4GT/s,turbo [add $1,450]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5560, 2.8GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo [add $1,320]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5550 2.66GHz,8M L3, 6.4GT/s,turbo [add $1,200]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5540 2.53GHz,8M L3, 5.8GT/s,turbo [add $900]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5530 2.4GHz,8M L3,5.8GT/s, turbo [add $550]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5520 2.26GHz,8M L3, 5.8GT/s,turbo [add $300]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5506 2.13GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [add $200]
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5504 2.0GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [add $90]
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5502 1.86GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [Included in Price]
Spreadsheets are hardly going to chew up processing power, depends what else you plan on run. I would personally go for the Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5504 2.0GHz,4M L3, 4.8GT/s [add $90]. Even that sounds like overkill but for 90 bucks what the hell.
ASKER
I should provide some further information about the processing I am trying to improve.
At present I use a 3 GHz Pentium 4 machine with 4 GB of RAM (upgraded Dell Precision Workstation 370).
With video editing, some renders and format conversions take anywhere from 20 minutes to 8 hours.
With the large spreadsheets some recalculations (e.g. when adding a column to one of the large spreadsheets) can take ten minutes.
These are examples of what I am looking to speed up.
At present I use a 3 GHz Pentium 4 machine with 4 GB of RAM (upgraded Dell Precision Workstation 370).
With video editing, some renders and format conversions take anywhere from 20 minutes to 8 hours.
With the large spreadsheets some recalculations (e.g. when adding a column to one of the large spreadsheets) can take ten minutes.
These are examples of what I am looking to speed up.
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>> At present I use a 3 GHz Pentium 4 machine
snuck info in on me. ; )
I don't know if Excel can use more than 1 core, but you should be able to drop the speed a little with out losing too much time from what the P4 does.
snuck info in on me. ; )
I don't know if Excel can use more than 1 core, but you should be able to drop the speed a little with out losing too much time from what the P4 does.
ASKER
Hi coral47,
Sorry for sneaking in some information! I believe what you describe is the case for Office / Excel, especially the 2003 version that I use at present. I've heard that the next version of Office will have a 64-bit version. If so, it ought to provide yet-more improvement.
The amount of video work is an interesting question. At the moment, I limit it due to the slowness. I probably would do more if the processing time came down.
MORE INFORMATION TO SNEAK IN :)
I just checked the Dell XPS 730X service manual. While it only has three memory slots, those slots are compatible with up to 4 GB DDR3 memory modules. So if I equipped it with 6 GB now, there is the option to upgrade it to 12 GB later. The 730X uses the Intel i7 line of processors.
A similarly-equipped XPS 730X is about $3,350 (with the i7-940 CPU) versus $5,400 for the T7500 workstation (using the top-end W5580 CPU). I'm starting to think that the XPS 730X might be a good alternative.
Sorry for sneaking in some information! I believe what you describe is the case for Office / Excel, especially the 2003 version that I use at present. I've heard that the next version of Office will have a 64-bit version. If so, it ought to provide yet-more improvement.
The amount of video work is an interesting question. At the moment, I limit it due to the slowness. I probably would do more if the processing time came down.
MORE INFORMATION TO SNEAK IN :)
I just checked the Dell XPS 730X service manual. While it only has three memory slots, those slots are compatible with up to 4 GB DDR3 memory modules. So if I equipped it with 6 GB now, there is the option to upgrade it to 12 GB later. The 730X uses the Intel i7 line of processors.
A similarly-equipped XPS 730X is about $3,350 (with the i7-940 CPU) versus $5,400 for the T7500 workstation (using the top-end W5580 CPU). I'm starting to think that the XPS 730X might be a good alternative.
That's almost a no-brainer.
The i7s are just spanking almost everything around. And for video, more memory is a good thing. : )
The i7s are just spanking almost everything around. And for video, more memory is a good thing. : )
>> more memory
referring to the 6 GB
referring to the 6 GB
A few thoughts ...
==> First, ANY of the systems you're considering will "smoke" your current system. A Pentium-IV 3.0GHz scores 476 on PassMark's CPUMark -- an excellent measure of CPU "horsepower". A Xeon 5504 scores 3095 (6.5 times your current CPU) ... and a Xeon 5580 scores 5247 (11 times your current CPU). Since the Core i7 was mentioned above, I'll include it -- a Core i7 940 scores 6087 (12.8 times your current CPU). Note, however, that the Xeons you've listed are all Nehalem-based CPU's -- the same architecture as the Core i7s. The performance is slightly lower because the Xeons are designed for lower power consumption and for use in dual processor motherboards. Note the 5504 is an 80w CPU, whereas the Core i7's are 130w CPUs.
The Precision Workstations have more enterprise-class features then the XPS systems, and ship with ECC memory [although it's still -- unfortunately -- unbuffered (in the single CPU models)].
ECC will give you better memory subsystem reliability -- although since it's still unbuffered memory I would NOT recommend installing more than 3 modules ... so your listed "disadvantage" for the XPS system ["... XPS 730x: only 3 memory slots ..."] isn't such a bad thing. But the XPS does not support ECC modules -- that is definitely a disadvantage.
I'd recommend you buy the Precision with an E5504, or if you want a bit more performance the E5520 (PassMark 3480) -- which also supports Turbo mode (the E5504 does not), which gives a substantial boost to performance when running applications that don't use all 4 cores (or even those that do if there is adequate thermal headroom --- depends on the ambient temperature and how well your heatsink works). [Here's an Intel presentation on the Turbo Mode feature: http://www.youtube.com/wat
Note that all of these CPU's (as well as the Core i7s) also support hyperthreading ... so your system will "look" like it has 8 cores.
Finally, if you want the ability to add truly prodigious amounts of memory, you should consider the dual socket version of the Precision -- which not only comes with two CPU's, but also supports registered RAM modules ... so bus loading is not a factor and you can add far more memory. But for your applications, I'd think 6GB is plenty. ... and you can still upgrade to 12GB by either adding 3 more 2GB modules (I don't like using 6 unbuffered modules ... but at least they're ECC modules, so reliability should still be fairly good) or by replacing the 2GB modules with 4GB modules (much better).
==> First, ANY of the systems you're considering will "smoke" your current system. A Pentium-IV 3.0GHz scores 476 on PassMark's CPUMark -- an excellent measure of CPU "horsepower". A Xeon 5504 scores 3095 (6.5 times your current CPU) ... and a Xeon 5580 scores 5247 (11 times your current CPU). Since the Core i7 was mentioned above, I'll include it -- a Core i7 940 scores 6087 (12.8 times your current CPU). Note, however, that the Xeons you've listed are all Nehalem-based CPU's -- the same architecture as the Core i7s. The performance is slightly lower because the Xeons are designed for lower power consumption and for use in dual processor motherboards. Note the 5504 is an 80w CPU, whereas the Core i7's are 130w CPUs.
The Precision Workstations have more enterprise-class features then the XPS systems, and ship with ECC memory [although it's still -- unfortunately -- unbuffered (in the single CPU models)].
ECC will give you better memory subsystem reliability -- although since it's still unbuffered memory I would NOT recommend installing more than 3 modules ... so your listed "disadvantage" for the XPS system ["... XPS 730x: only 3 memory slots ..."] isn't such a bad thing. But the XPS does not support ECC modules -- that is definitely a disadvantage.
I'd recommend you buy the Precision with an E5504, or if you want a bit more performance the E5520 (PassMark 3480) -- which also supports Turbo mode (the E5504 does not), which gives a substantial boost to performance when running applications that don't use all 4 cores (or even those that do if there is adequate thermal headroom --- depends on the ambient temperature and how well your heatsink works). [Here's an Intel presentation on the Turbo Mode feature: http://www.youtube.com/wat
Note that all of these CPU's (as well as the Core i7s) also support hyperthreading ... so your system will "look" like it has 8 cores.
Finally, if you want the ability to add truly prodigious amounts of memory, you should consider the dual socket version of the Precision -- which not only comes with two CPU's, but also supports registered RAM modules ... so bus loading is not a factor and you can add far more memory. But for your applications, I'd think 6GB is plenty. ... and you can still upgrade to 12GB by either adding 3 more 2GB modules (I don't like using 6 unbuffered modules ... but at least they're ECC modules, so reliability should still be fairly good) or by replacing the 2GB modules with 4GB modules (much better).
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SOLUTION
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I agree an XPS is a less-expensive solution and is probably just fine for this application ... it simply depends on how "enterprise-class" the system needs to be. Unbuffered, non-ECC memory can be very reliable as long as the bus loading is kept to a reasonable level. But as for the comment "... I cannot recall the last time I had a random memory failure on a desktop ... " ==> you wouldn't know it was a random memory failure -- I'm convinced many unexplained Windows crashes are in fact caused by random memory errors. If you use unbuffered memory and limit the installed modules to 2 (for dual-channel systems) or 3 (for triple-channel systems) the system will probably run very reliably. But even then, ECC memory will improve the reliability by virtually eliminating the random failures -- and of course a buffered RAM system will not only make it far more reliable but will also allow installation of essentially unlimited number of modules (limited only by the number of slots in the motherboard) without concern for bus loading.
I do agree that this new system -- whatever is used -- will be FAR faster than the old 3.0GHz P-IV ... so it's very likely you'll find that 6GB is plenty :-)
Another way to look at this: You can buy the XPS and have enough $$ left over to replace the 6GB of memory with 3 x 4GB modules when they become readily available :-)
I do agree that this new system -- whatever is used -- will be FAR faster than the old 3.0GHz P-IV ... so it's very likely you'll find that 6GB is plenty :-)
Another way to look at this: You can buy the XPS and have enough $$ left over to replace the 6GB of memory with 3 x 4GB modules when they become readily available :-)
Just FYI, lots of good feedback on the XPS from folks who are PowerPoint/Video/Graphics designers at PPTLive last year. I got one based on their feedback and am very happy with it (but I don't render video very frequently).
ASKER
All your comments are superb and very helpful. A few thoughts and findings:
My current P4 has a PassMark rating of 413 so the improvement will be even larger.
The video garycase suggested on turbo mode was very helpful.
The PC does tend to be on 15 or so hours per day most days although it is not in continuous use. It is used as a PC and not as a server.
I went to dell.com to price out the T7500 using the E5520 CPU garycase suggested. Fascinating result:
T7500, E5520 CPU, 6 GB DDR3 RDIMM ECC memory in 3 DIMMs, 300 GB 10,000rpm HDD, NVS 295 graphics card: $3,696.
XPS 370X, i7-940 CPU, 6 GB DDR3 in 3 DIMMs (non ECC), 300 GB Velociraptor HDD, Radeon 4870 X2 graphics card: today's price $3,588. (was $3,344 yesterday)
So with the E5520 CPU both systems price just about the same!
Does this affect your recommendations?
Garycase - you mentioned registered memory. Is this the RDIMM in the T7500 configuration? I plead ignorance - what is registered memory and what are the benefits?
Does Dell provide any configurations that use buffered memory?
My current P4 has a PassMark rating of 413 so the improvement will be even larger.
The video garycase suggested on turbo mode was very helpful.
The PC does tend to be on 15 or so hours per day most days although it is not in continuous use. It is used as a PC and not as a server.
I went to dell.com to price out the T7500 using the E5520 CPU garycase suggested. Fascinating result:
T7500, E5520 CPU, 6 GB DDR3 RDIMM ECC memory in 3 DIMMs, 300 GB 10,000rpm HDD, NVS 295 graphics card: $3,696.
XPS 370X, i7-940 CPU, 6 GB DDR3 in 3 DIMMs (non ECC), 300 GB Velociraptor HDD, Radeon 4870 X2 graphics card: today's price $3,588. (was $3,344 yesterday)
So with the E5520 CPU both systems price just about the same!
Does this affect your recommendations?
Garycase - you mentioned registered memory. Is this the RDIMM in the T7500 configuration? I plead ignorance - what is registered memory and what are the benefits?
Does Dell provide any configurations that use buffered memory?
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ASKER
Thank you everyone for your superb inputs. Garycase - a special mention - your detailed analyses and insights are amazing.
I'm convinced that both models are excellent. To best meet my own needs, I plan to go ahead with a T7500 using garycase's CPU recommendation. I appreciate the points about the buffered memory, lower power dissipation, expandability, and robust nature of the Precision Workstations.
Heads up: I also plan to initiate a separate question about the choice of graphics card for the T7500! It deserves its own points rather than appending it here.
I'm convinced that both models are excellent. To best meet my own needs, I plan to go ahead with a T7500 using garycase's CPU recommendation. I appreciate the points about the buffered memory, lower power dissipation, expandability, and robust nature of the Precision Workstations.
Heads up: I also plan to initiate a separate question about the choice of graphics card for the T7500! It deserves its own points rather than appending it here.
Thank you much. : )