Office 2007 and NTFS issues

I have it setup in the office that a the public folders are not able to be modified so as to prevent people from deleting files by mistake. With office 2003 i have had no problems opening files and saving them. NOw with office 2007 i cant open a file already created and save it (modify). I understand why the issue is occurring but why DON'ti have any issue with Office 2003 . I still have a vast amount of users working with office 03 without and issue.
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dallasgrpAsked:
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arnoldCommented:
With your description it is hard to say.
Use the filemon tool from sysinternals.com to see what the application is trying to do, i.e. create a lock file (~filename.ext) etc. Do the users of the folder have write rights.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
yes
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arnoldCommented:
What about the rest of the items mentioned?
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
On the shared folder the permissions are as follows. The Share has full access to everyone. On the security tab it is set to have all the rights except for Modify and full access.
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arnoldCommented:
Who is set for those rights?
Do the domain users have read and execute/write/list folder contents?
MS application have to have write access in the share to create the lock file. ~filname.docx.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
hey do but if they dont havr the modify they cant save the changes from the lock file to the real file.
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arnoldCommented:
The lock file is a place holder advising other users when they try to open the same file that it is currently in use and can only be accessed in read-only mode.
The lock file is not used to temporarily store change and then merge those changes into the original file.
Modify means that they can not rename an existing file and might not be able to alter its contents.
Not definitely sure about that.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
Hmm, All i know is that... without the modify I cant save changes to the document, i have to save as another document. I want the owner of the document to be able to makes any change they want but want other users to add to the document as needed.
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arnoldCommented:
That is the Modify right.
Write option means create new.
Modify means change existing.
If you have user groups, you can assign modify rights to group/s that should be able to add to existing documents.
Alternatively, you might want to explore document management system such as alfresco.
This is a web based document/content management system that maintains versions of the document.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
But if i give the creator owener modfy it doesnt work.
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arnoldCommented:
Creator is the person creating the file not anybody else.
Alttering Creator Owner rights is a way without checking who created the file to alter their rights.
I.e. usera create FileA, userB created fileB.
Altering the setting Creator Owner i.e. removing full control and modify will effectively mean that usera and userb will loose those rights on this file.
I think it also can be setup as a mask when a file is created to limit what the creator can do with the file.
You are skipping and altering your question with every alternate answer.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
Let me restate again. There is a folder Called Public. Where all users can create their own files. John can create a file, edit it, or delete it. If Susan accesses the file I want her to be able to "modify" it but I don't want her to be able to delete the file since it was not created by her. John is the owner therefore he should only be the one (aside for domain admin) to delete the file.

I have setup the folder to Allow everyone to Read & Execute, List Folder Contents, Read, and Write. Modify is not selected.  Creator Owner has full access.

These settings are not functioning for Office 2007 word, excel, and ppt. When Susan go into John word doc in word 07 she cant save the changes she made, it always prompts her to save as a new doc. But when she goes to another computer and does the same thing. She can make changes and save them.

My quest is to get this work like in 2003. If there is no way of doing this i need to know that there's some type of reason why.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
And yes i know that if i check the modify it will work but then that gives susan the ability to delete the file which i want to prevent.
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arnoldCommented:
You could use the special/advanced settings and restrict the delete feature for all.

If you see a different behavior for the same user when using different computers, the issue is with the computer and that should be checked.
i.e. do some computers have offline files on while other off.  Which of those works and which does not.

How do the two systems differ?
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
The other computer has Office 2003. I have tested this on one machine. Its not the machine. Its the software. Office 2003 seems to not care that the modify is not selected and yet people can make changes but not delete. When using office 2007 the issue occurs. I have logged into the machine with 07 and tried to make changes to the file with no success, then i go to the machine with office 2003 (same user) have no issue, when to another machine with Office 2007 issues, another machine with Office 2003 no issues.

I have tried to deny delete in special permission and no such luck.
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dallasgrpAuthor Commented:
Till this date i have to see a good reason this does not work. MS doesn't say anything and i have seem online posts asking the same questions without a good response. Also i have seen in EE the same issue and no one has been able to explain why its possible to make changes to a file without the modify permission and in office 2007 you can not.
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arnoldCommented:
The solution is rather clear.
Enable the modify right.
Downgrade current 2007 to 2003.

To bypass this whole thing, using a document management system might provide you with a more granular control as well as an auto backup along with revision history.
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