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Dell Dimension 3000 prompts press f1 to continue wont recognize hard drive in black boot screen

I have been trying to figure out why this dell prompts press f1  to continue.
I ran microsocope diagnostics on it and it comes back asgood.
I booted with the ultimate boot cd and it still says press f1  boot to continue.
When I got into the bios it sees the hard drive but will not boot to the hard drive unless it is on the secondary ide channel.
I am thinking the bios may need to be flashed or the motherboard is going bad.

I pulled the hard drive and hooked it to another computer and it was readable.
I put another hard drive in the dell and it does the same thing.

Are there any other free programs or reasonably priced programs I can use to test the motherboard?
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kallatech
Asked:
kallatech
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1 Solution
 
dbruntonCommented:
You could try a BIOS reset but I suspect that the motherboard is bad.

You've tried both hard disk and CD and the result is the same.

Puzzling is this statement

<< ... but will not boot to the hard drive unless it is on the secondary ide channel. >>

Do you mean it will boot if on the secondary IDE channel?
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
It will boot on the secondary if I press f1
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
this wouldn't be related to a processor problem would it
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dbruntonCommented:
Have a look at boot order in BIOS.  It may be expecting to boot from something odd.

Also try swapping the IDE cables, you may have a faulty one.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
The bios is set to boot to floppy (disabled) hard drive
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dbruntonCommented:
You have tried swapping IDE cables?  I'm presuming this machine has two cables.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
I will try that and let you know
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
Switched the cable. plugged into ide 1
System boots to dell splash screen and takes a while  before it says
primary 0 not found
primary 1 not found
secondary drive 1 not found

jumper for hard drive was orginally set as cable select
set it to master  and get the above mentioned
Press f1 and it does nothing but cycle back to press f1 to continue or f2 for setup

set it back to cs and it boots after pressing f1
restarted and it prompts for the same thing
pressed f1 and it boots
switched to secondary ide and it prompts for f1
after pressing it boots to xp
I am using a usb keyboard but I wouldn't think this would cause the prompt.

It still says it can't find primary 0, 1, and secondary drive but after pressing f1 it boots.


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dbruntonCommented:
So you are only using one drive at all in this testing, no CDROM drives? because that is what it is looking like from.

>>> It still says it can't find primary 0, 1, and secondary drive but after pressing f1 it boots.

This is an 80 pin cable?  Blue connector to motherboard.  If setting hard disk to Master then black connector (at end of cable) goes to hard disk.  If setting CS then it should not matter where the disk is connected as long as there are NO other devices on the cable.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
the cdrom drive is disconnected
blue connector going to motherboard
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
I have to leave to go to a Christmas party I will check in later tonight.

Thank you for your help
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PCBONEZCommented:
Suspect:
-
Corrupt BIOS so the BIOS level driver isn't working.
.. Reflash BIOS to fix.
- or
Bad caps on motherboard are futzing up the drive controller[s] on the mobo or on the drive.
.. Check mobo caps. - Common problem on Dell boards!
- or
Bad PSU [or caps in it] is putting out dirty/noisy power just bad enough to futz up the drive controller[s].
.. Try different PSU

.

If you have poor quality [aka 'noisy'] power through the system then IC chips won't work properly.
Which one is affected first will vary from system to system.
.
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PCBONEZCommented:
Your motherboard is Intel built for Dell with an i865GV chipset.
Many of those did have caps issues though it takes longer to show up in tower cases.
[Better cooled than other cases.]

~~ Boards assembled from 2001-2004.
Defective Nichicon HN and/or HM series caps.
Identifiable by markings HN(M) or HN or HM(M) or HM.
Date code on caps is in format H0344.  ->  H'03'44'
- That would be week 44 in year 2003.
Year codes of 01,02,03,04 are bad.
HM are black with white markings.
HN are black with gold markings.

~~ All build dates
Chemicon KZG series caps will fail and only bloat about 1/4 of the time.
These are light brown with white writing and you will see 'KZG" somewhere on them.

~~ All build dates
This has been ongoing from socket 370 to at least socket 775 on Intel boards.
Intel sometimes uses 85C rated caps for the small 4 & 5 mm caps. [Brand and series varies.]
These 85C caps often dry out and fail and because of what they do they can muck-up communication between IC chipse on the board.
[IC chips includes the Chipset, RAM, smaller Voltage Regulators, LAN chip, Drive Controllers, etc...]
Bloating is not always evident because they are simply too small to bloat much.
- This problem usually takes 4-5 years to occur but heat and number of hours of on-time has a big effect.
- Optiplex GX620 mini-cases commonly blow these caps in 12-18 months due to heat & cooling problems with the case design.
-
Of those techs that know to look at caps very few know to look at the small ones.
I've seen Intel built P4 RETAIL [not Dell] boards with 15+ blown 22uF to 220uF [lots of 100uF].
Intel for Dell boards have the same problem as the Intel retail boards.
.

*IF* you do have one of those cap problems *and IF* the board at least gets to a BIOS screen then replacing the bad caps [with the correct type] corrects all the problems 98+% of the time.
If the board won't boot at all but has obvious bad caps the odds are still good but as you can't know about other damage you won't know for sure. [A bum PSU or bad mobo caps may have fried the chipset or VRM MOSFETs.]
.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
I assuming when you say caps you are talking about the capacitors?
I will test the power supply and let you know how it goes.
The capacitors do not look bad on the motherboard.
I ran microscope on the motherboard and it didn't see the motherboard as bad.
Is there some other bootable diagnostics I can run on the motherboard to determine if it is bad?
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
I also ran the dell diagnostics from the part  of the partition that dell loaded.
I did have to press f1 to get it to boot.
Motherboard, memory, cpu, and hard drive passed.
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PCBONEZCommented:
Yes, caps = capacitors

Bad HN & HM usually 'look' bad.
Bad KZG sometimes 'look' bad, other times not.
Bad 4 or 5 mm caps are so small it's hard to tell.
-
No diagnostic program [including microscope] can tell you if the Vtt voltage is out of whack which is the biggest problem those small 85C rated caps cause when they dryout and fail.
You would have to either:
- check the Vtt voltages [for CPU, Chipset, RAM, and drive controllers] for excess noise with an oscilloscope.
- remove the caps and measure capacitance and ESR.
I use both methods out of curiosity but 85C caps get replaced regardless if bad,,, yet.

A burn-it program like Prime95 might tell you something indirectly by way of showing instability over-all.

Most people capable of replacing caps just suck it up and replace 85C caps because if you DIY the added cost to do the small ones [all of them] is $5-$10. That's a lot less than risking blowing a RAM chip, losing data, or having to spend time chasing down instability problems.

Intel considers the 'useful lifetime' of a motherboard to be 7 years so they design and build them to last 'at least' 7 years. Caps rated for 85C will last 7 years if the system is properly cooled. The problem is many Dells simply aren't well cooled. - Starting to see a lot of small case [not tower] GX620 having problems. Usually turns out to be this group of 85C caps they put right up against [under] a 7200 RPM hard drive.

One of my early experiences with bad caps was a drive issue but not quite the same as yours.
If you put ANY [hard or optical] drive on the second IDE controller the system wouldn't couldn't detect any drive on either controller. If you only had drives on the first controller [and nothing on the second] the everything worked fine. Problem was a single bad cap near the IDE controller.
.
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PCBONEZCommented:
typo.... burn-it => burn-in
Although perhaps it's the same thing.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
Thanks I will test the power supply and see about running prime 95.

I will let you know the results.

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kallatechAuthor Commented:
Tested the power supply using the cool max tester and it tested good.
I am going to go with it being a bad motherboard.
I will replace the motherboard and will probably replace the case if I can' remove the motherboard ( it is a dell).
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PCBONEZCommented:
I'm sorry but those testers can NOT tell you a PSU is good.
They only tell you it's not a particular kind of BAD.
-
1: They don't load a PSU enough to make it work, as in put out any effect.
2: They don't tell you a thing about noise, static, EMI being present in the voltages.
-
All you know by using one is that under an extremely light load the average voltage is in range.
- With a more realistic load on it that might not be true anymore.
- You could have ripple 50-100 times the ATX spec that that thing won't even see it.

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kallatechAuthor Commented:
What would you recommend for a power supply tester?
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PCBONEZCommented:
The only thing that truly works is an oscilloscope.
There is no way to check for noise and ripple without one.
[If you work on PC's for a living it is worth getting one, otherwise probably not.]
-
Lacking a scope.
Visually inspect them internally for crap brand or bloated caps and anything that looks burned/over heated.
Put a real load on it with a 'test' mobo and some drives and check voltages with a multi-meter.

Those quick checkers ARE useful to make sure it isn't stone dead or so far off the system won't even start.
- But that's about as far as they go.

I had an incident where I was in a hurry and all I used was a quick checker on a brand new PSU and it passed fine.
A few minutes later the same PSU melted the chipset on a tested good mobo before I even got past the POST screen.
- I was stupid enough to blame the motherboard and I fried another board before the light bulb my head went on.
[This was what inspired me to own an O'scope again. I had sold mine years before.]

Never use a power supply with Fuhjyyu capacitors - ever!
The ones in that PSU [An Antec TP2-550] bloated and leaked crud all over inside while sitting on the store shelf.
[It was ~ 2 years old but still factory sealed when I got it.]

Now I test PSU's with a motherboard I don't mind loosing, a multi-meter, and an O'scope. [After the quick checker.]
I also check inside used [and some brands new] units for bloated or notoriously bad cap brands.
There are a few bad brands from iffy to horrible, Fuhjyyu is just the worst of the bunch in power supplies.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Fuhjyyu&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=b36c7832dbb01be6

Unfortunately Fuhjyyu were VERY common in PSUs for a few years. Antec just LOVED using them in several models. More accurately Channel Well Technology [CWT] loved using them and Antec was OEMing from CWT. MANY major PSU brands that you think are made by whoever are actually CWT built. There 2 or 3 are other high volume OEM shoddy PSU builders looming in the background of the industry. The name on a PSU is seldom who actually built it. Antec finally 'fired' CWT [about 2? years ago] but their new OEM's use caps that aren't much better in the lower class models.
.

Most motherboards are better now but bad caps problems never went away. They were always there in PSU's and routers and now LCD screens, LCD TV's, and some Video cards are having major issues with them.

~~~~ Sorry ~~~~
Crap caps are a Pet Peeve.
.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
This type of motherboard is hard to find new so I am going to recommend they just get a new pc.
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PCBONEZCommented:
In regards to same board replacement:
You are better off getting a rebuilt board than a new one. [Or having that one rebuilt.]
A rebuilt board will have quality caps.
A 'new' one will have the same problem caps as the original board, only the caps are older now even if never used.
- There are several places that do that. [Ask if you care.]
- 'Refurbished' does not usually mean new caps, you have to ask.

If you work with PC's for a living it's not a bad idea to learn how to do this repair yourself.
.

Also, as often as not for older stuff, you can sometimes get a whole system to cannibalize the motherboard from for about the same cost as just a motherboard.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Dimension-3000-P4-2-8GHz-1GB-Ram-80GB-Desktop_W0QQitemZ190359889009QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item2c52556471
.
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kallatechAuthor Commented:
Thank you for your detailed communication.

Merry Christmas

The customer decided they didn't have the money for a new pc and they would rather wait to get a new pc.
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