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Could my hub be causing problems?

Posted on 2009-12-30
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Last Modified: 2012-05-08
Hello all,
I have a small network set up at home.

Wireless router connected to the internet. One laptop connected to it via wireless. The router is connected via powerline adapters (homeplugs) to another room, in this room is a hub, connected to this hub is one PC, a printer and a VOIP phone.

Recently Ive noticed that my broadband connection is terrible, it should be 24mbs, but in speed checks (speeedtest.net are showing it as low as 0.5mbs. To fix this I have to restart the router, once done the speed leaps to about 20mbs and then starts to drop.

When its at its worst I get a lot of packet lost if I ping google.co.uk (about 20%) from the laptop. My question is, could this packet loss be caused by the hub? It seems if I disconnect it, then the performance does not degrade, but how does that make any sense?

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Question by:fox_statton
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Expert Comment

by:dbtouraust
ID: 26144186
A hub will broadcast all traffic out all ports and then forward it back to the switch in your other room....if you have a device that is constantly broadcasting traffic then this is going to cause you some issues. My best guess her eis "yes" the hub is contributing as you also say that when you turn it off performance is not degraded.

Does the wireless router also have fast ethernet ports on it or is it only accessible to devices via wireless?
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26144221
I would start by looking at the firmware on the Wireless Router and seeing if there is an update available from the manufacturer.  If there is, please download it and flash it to the router.  You may find that this is a known problem which gets addressed by the firmware update.
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26145552
Hi,
yes the router has ethernet ports and Ive used them when troubleshooting, but the prob is still the same.

Ive just replaced the hub with a switch, so hopefully that will make things better.

Ill look into the firmware update and if the switch doesnt fix it, Ill update it
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LVL 76

Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26145568
No problems - hopefully one or the other will solve the problems for you, but if not, please let us know.
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26152522
Hi guys,
the swtich didnt fix the problem, so Im going to look into the firmware update... sigh!

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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26152667
That's a shame - hopefully that will sort you out.  If not - time to start the brain up again!
Good luck.
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26153263
I updated the firmware and its made no difference.
Im really confused.

Ive done a trace route and this is what im getting for google.co.uk

Tracing route to google.co.uk [209.85.229.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    18 ms    99 ms    99 ms  BeBox.config [192.168.1.254]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4    19 ms    20 ms    18 ms  10.1.2.158
  5    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  87-194-0-206.bethere.co.uk [87.194.0.206]
  6    17 ms    17 ms    18 ms  64.233.175.27
  7    24 ms    24 ms    26 ms  66.249.95.170
  8   114 ms    24 ms    26 ms  209.85.251.231
  9     *        *       30 ms  209.85.243.73
 10     *        *       26 ms  ww-in-f103.1e100.net [209.85.229.103]

Trace complete.


What does it mean that two and three timed out?
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26153779
That is a little odd.
As you are with BeThere, you will have an 87.194 IP address, so what is the 192.168.1.254 and the 10.1.2.158?
I would imagine the 192.168.1.254 is the internal IP of your BeBox, but why do you have a 10.1.2.158 IP internally?  Sounds like your IP Addressing is not correct.
Please describe your network in detail and advise the IP Addresses of computers / switches / hubs / routers / Wireless Access Points etc.
You should see :
1    18 ms    99 ms    99 ms  BeBox.config [192.168.1.254]
2    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  87-194-0-206.bethere.co.uk [87.194.0.206]
3    17 ms    17 ms    18 ms  64.233.175.27
4    24 ms    24 ms    26 ms  66.249.95.170
5   114 ms    24 ms    26 ms  209.85.251.231
6     *        *       30 ms  209.85.243.73
7     *        *       26 ms  ww-in-f103.1e100.net [209.85.229.103]
But if it is any consolation, I am with BE and I get this:
Tracing route to ww-in-f103.1e100.net [209.85.229.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
  1     5 ms     *        2 ms  10.0.0.1
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  87-194-0-206.bethere.co.uk [87.194.0.206]
  6    16 ms    16 ms    16 ms  64.233.175.25
  7    22 ms    22 ms    22 ms  72.14.232.134
  8    22 ms    21 ms    21 ms  216.239.49.45
  9    24 ms    35 ms    37 ms  209.85.243.73
 10    22 ms    21 ms    21 ms  ww-in-f103.1e100.net [209.85.229.103]
10.0.0.1 is the internal IP Address of my router (Not a BeBox).
This is the bit that worries me about your configuration:
 4    19 ms    20 ms    18 ms  10.1.2.158

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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26154077
Hi,
Ive attached a diagram of my network.

Thanks for all your help with this!
Home-Network-troubleshooting.gif
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26154134
What is using IP 10.0.0.1?  Is that your Powerline adapter (Network over the Electrics)?
It could be the Powerline adapters that are to blame.
Where are you testing the broadband speed from - the laptop or the PC?
Do you get consistently fast speed on the laptop?
Have you checked for LAN / Wireless driver updates for your PC / Laptop?
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26154140
The IP addresses are:

Laptop: 192.168.1.67
PC: 192.168.1.66
Printer: 192.168.1.105 (off most of the time)
Phone: 192.168.1.79

Im not sure that the new switch has an IP address
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26154162
Sorry - 10.0.0.1 is my IP - I meant what is using IP 10.1.2.158?
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26154170
Hi,
Do you mean 10.1.2.158? As far as I know Im not using it, it doesnt show up in the router control panel.

Im testing it from the laptop on wireless (and also sometimes connected using ethernet). Also tested it from the PC on the otherside of the powerline adapters.

One thing I shoudl mention is that this set up used to work perfectly (apart from a prob with the wireless and Be sent me a new router)
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26155215
You have to be going through 10.1.2.158 somewhere.  If your internal network is on 192.168.1.x, then the device on 10.1.2.158 should not be there.
Your internal addressing is consistent with the router which is correct, but why you are going through 10.1.2.158 I have no idea.
Can you ping the IP?  Can you open the address in a browser?
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26155324
Hi, nope couldnt ping it, and also couldnt tracert to it. Very odd.
I restarted the router, i found that early after the restart when the speed is good the tracert looks like this:

Tracing route to google.co.uk [209.85.229.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    61 ms    99 ms    99 ms  BeBox.config [192.168.1.254]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5    17 ms    18 ms    17 ms  87-194-0-206.bethere.co.uk [87.194.0.206]
  6    18 ms    18 ms    19 ms  64.233.175.27
  7    25 ms    24 ms    25 ms  66.249.95.170
  8    24 ms    25 ms    24 ms  72.14.236.191
  9    37 ms    35 ms    35 ms  209.85.243.77
 10    25 ms    24 ms    24 ms  ww-in-f103.1e100.net [209.85.229.103]

Trace complete.


During the worst part of the speed drop it looks like this:

UNKNOWN TIME - DURING SPEED DROP
Tracing route to google.co.uk [209.85.229.106]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    14 ms    99 ms    99 ms  BeBox.config [192.168.1.254]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     *       19 ms    18 ms  10.1.2.158
  5    18 ms    18 ms    68 ms  87-194-0-206.bethere.co.uk [87.194.0.206]
  6    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  64.233.175.27
  7   168 ms    26 ms    25 ms  66.249.95.170
  8    26 ms    23 ms    25 ms  72.14.236.191
  9    33 ms    35 ms    35 ms  209.85.243.81
 10    29 ms    24 ms    24 ms  ww-in-f106.1e100.net [209.85.229.106]

Trace complete.


What router do you use instead of the bebox?




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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26155435
Sound to me like a Be Router problem.  Have you reset it back to factory settings and then re-configured it?
Have you called Be Support on 0808 101 3430 ?
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26155833
Yep, been working with BE from the start. They event me a replacement router.

I think I might have figured something out. When there is nothing connected to it using ethernet it works fine (no speed drop). So I went into the control panel, i noticed that previously I had connected my laptop using ethernet, for some reason in the "home network" section it was still being detected under ethernet, as well as showing up under wireless. So Im wondering if there was some problem because the same MAC address was appearing twice, but with different IP addresses? Would that make sense?

So I manually removed it and things seem to be working. Im going to continue testing for the next 24-48 hrs... fingers crossed!
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Accepted Solution

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Alan Hardisty earned 2000 total points
ID: 26158818
Your Wireless MAC address and the Ethernet MAC addresses will be different, so there won't be a conflict of MAC addresses, but possibly machine names.
Either way, the router shoul dnot be doing this.  It may be a 'feature' of the router.  Also, the standard BE routers cannot port forward TCP port 443 as that is the default remote web management port and you have to telnet to the box to disable / change the port!
Personally I would ditch the Be Router and put your own one in - one that does not do weird things.  I would recommend something like the Netgear DGN2000.  Simple to install and configure and much less hassle to port forward if you need to.
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Author Comment

by:fox_statton
ID: 26161141
Im giving serious consideration to getting a different router. Does a "non bebox" sync and connect with Be as well as the Bebox? On a good day I had a sync speed of 20mb and actual of about 18mb. (before all these troubles).
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 26161202
As long as you get an ADSL2+ router, such as the Netgear DGN2000 I suggested, you will be fine.

Be will tell you they don't support anything other than their routers, but that is not a problem.

You need to know the vpi and cpi settings are 0 and 101 with llc multiplexing method.
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Expert Comment

by:marsyrob
ID: 26170569
Did you buy the powerline adaptors 2nd hand?  You will need to make sure that the adaptors are configured correctly and dont have any "legacy" ip addressing configured from before.

You can browse to them via a web browser (try using the address that you are not familiar with) so just put in http://10.1.2.158 it should bring up the GUI.  Also try a scan of your internal IP range to see whats responding if you cant connect to them with the 10.1.2.158 address.  Otherwise try plugging your lappy directly into the powerline and see if it gives you a DHCP address and then try configuring the device from there.

If i remember rightly the one that terminates the router needs to be set as the server and the one that is used elsewhere is the client, sometimes the both act as servers and drastically degrade the network.  Not sure what models you have but its worth a check.

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