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Remote photo edit

Posted on 2010-01-06
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Last Modified: 2013-11-30
I have server in office, strong server, large hdd, etc.

My idea is to work heavy operations on server because has strong performance versus my work laptop.
I try edit photos on server via Remote Desktop, and look OK, problem is little slow refresh of screen move (scrolling), zooming photos etc. Because I'm on LAN network behind server I think that picture might be like working on server, but isn't ?

Any solution ?
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Question by:tehnoline
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26 Comments
 
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Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26192813
Couple comments:
1. You do not mention how you are connecting to the server but if it is VNC, forget it. VNC simply sucks, bandwidth wise, when compared to RDP. You must connect to the server using RDP.
2. If the server is Windows Server 2008 R2 and your PC is XP/Vista/Windows 7 using the latest and greatest RDP client available, performance is MUCH better when compared to older versions. You would be very impressed on how smooth it is now.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Expert Comment

by:mr_E
ID: 26192828
@tehnoline

You will get more performance working directly on the server, not seeing the screen server from your RD client.

Are you running the photo edit sofware in the server? and from your laptop using server with the RD client ?

The performance of your server working with the photo can be good, but the speed over network for just seeing the screen refresh of the server can be slowed by many things:

The speed of your Networks Cards + Switch
The traffic and workload on the server
The graphics performance of your laptop.

If you dont need to "see" the quality of the photo in your laptop you can lower the screen settings of the "RD client" in your laptop, you will see a lower quality screen of the server in your laptop.

But if you need to see the "real" quality from the photo edited in the server, few thing can improve the speed:

Get good switch and networks cards in both (server and laptop)

Dissable as many task used in the laptop so it use more CPU to render the remote screen (you said you laptop have less performance than server).

Regards
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26192859
Machine for foto editing on server is Windows 7 as virtual machine, and client side is Vista on laptop.
I think is any difference if I have W7 on laptop instead Vista ?
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Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26192913
Oh wait. Virtual Machine? Right there you will have problems. A VM will not have access to all the hardware features on the video card for example.
This will not work with good performance.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Expert Comment

by:mr_E
ID: 26192982
Windows 7 has a better performance than Vista in many areas, I hope that over network too.

If your laptop you have many security apps running than monitor the network traffic the speed will be reduced.
Try use only the RDP client, and pause/stop as many apps you can in the laptop.

Don't spect a great speed performance seing the screen from the server in the laptop, this is like seeing a youtube movie, but the browser needs to "buffer" parts of the video to see it, this "buffer" before show don't exists here in the RDP client (XP version).

Regards
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by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26193120
mr_E, the problem here is simple: his Windows 7 machine is not a real machine, it is virtual. Simple as that. This severely limits its performance not to mention the lack of support for the hardware itself.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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by:mr_E
ID: 26193509
@tsmvp

Yes I read it.

BUT if tehnoline have a good performance working directly in the VM/Server (he need to tell us), he can try tweaks some things in his side (laptop) just to check if he gain more performance.

And of course he won't see "real time" performance but maybe he can do his job after all.

Regards
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Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26193618
The simple fact he is using a VM is the limiting factor. Does not matter if using the VM 'at the console' or remotely. This is the problem a company like Citrix is trying to resolve with their XenDesktop and all their HDX stuff built-in to the product.
RDP/VNC connecting to a VM will simply not do it.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26193857
VM is not limiting factor. Guys, sorry, but many server's are running in VM's , I doubt that performance on VM servers are not good ?
When I connect with RDS on Core server, and open VM screen (Hyper-v) , screen picture refresh are good, if I connect directly to VM with RDS is not good.
Problem is definitely in RDS.
I read about W7 have platform for VDI and would-be able to have Areo experience on remote user side.
Have any info how works VDI, how to setup, and finally does this solve my problem ?

Thx
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Accepted Solution

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Cláudio Rodrigues earned 2000 total points
ID: 26193990
There is a big difference between running a server as a VM and running a desktop OS like Windows 7 as a VM.
I am very familiar with virtualization and its PROs and CONs.
The issue you forget here is very simple: a machine to work properly with imaging/pictures need a very decent video card. A server does not need that. A Windows 7 machine running a photo editting software DOES need that.
Once you virtualize Windows 7 you LOSE access to the hardware features (i.e. the video card). That is the reason why only on VMWare Workstation, VMWare Fusion and Parallels Desktop that NOW have EXPERIMENTAL support for DirectX for example.
VDI is no different than what you are doing. The key thing is if you do need the graphics subsystem to work properly the only solution as of today on the market is Citrix XenDesktop 4.
Note that even with that Aero Glass is NOT supported on a VM as they currently use a XDDM driver (only WDDM supports that). But they do support other things and for sure will provide a much better experience than over RDP.
As a test you can try a real machine running Windows 7. If you connect from another Windows 7 machine (real one, not VM) Aero does work over RDP. Your issue here is again, very simple: the fact you have a VM AND you do not use something like XenDesktop.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Expert Comment

by:amichaell
ID: 26195142
Virtualization plays a huge factor when dealing with multimedia/graphics.  Even the difference between XenDesktop 3 and 4 is huge, thanks to improved HDX.  Virtualization is great, though it isn't a magic bullet that works with everything.  We have camera software that doesn't work due to the video driver XenServer utilizes, for example.  

VDI is paving the way for a rich multimedia experience.  Previously VMs only cared about server performance, which was decidedly nothing to do with graphics editing, video, sound, etc.  Now with VDI vendors are being forced to improve the multimedia experience as users will want the same experience in VDI that they had from their traditional fat clients.  Citrix's XenDesktop 4 is your best bet for this at this point in time.
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Expert Comment

by:mr_E
ID: 26195166
@tehnoline
;-) You have some questions open that seems related with your performance issue here:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/Windows_Vista/Q_25005346.html
http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/Windows_Vista/Q_25004201.html

I wonder if the same laptop is involved in the questions, and if the resource monitor from Q_25005346 is from the same laptop... maybe you need more RAM or your hard disk is very defragmented or damaged, try to check/defragment your hard disk. And review the apps running that are not need it and disable it.

Even if you have a good performance in the VM when working directly on the server, you need to check if your laptop have problems or don't have the resources need it to display the video in the RDP client.

If your system have little RAM (add more) or hard disk problems (defragment, check for bad sectors, etc.) fix them 1st.

Finally:
Seems to me that you want to try windows 7 instead of Vista, as your are using Vista chances are that your system can handle Windows 7, W7 run better than Vista (at least in my test). Just remember:

Try to control the apps that run in the background, don't let apps like adobe reader, etc running all the time, the eat your performance.

Research for a good performance Antivirus AV. Some a good that others on the performance side:
http://anti-virus-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

I can tell you my own story with my new low end performance netbook gateway ADM/64.
It came with Vista and some yellow intrusive AV (norton or symantec I don't want to remember), the performance was poorly that I think to format and put Linux, but the laptop is for my wife & kids, so I choice to format, re-install Windows but this time I change to Avast home, I have now a very good performance netbook. Family is happy now.

Allways have an eye on the security sofware, because here the bottleneck start, they can slowdown the most powerfull systems.

Regards
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26195910
Answer to "mr_E" - yes, this is same laptop that have this problems that you linked, but problems with Hard Fault memory are gone, I think that Outlook check database file of my e-mail's and that is 18 GB and Outlook needed day or two to check file.
But I try RDC from another machine that have Intel i7, and lot of RAM, graphic, stripe disk's etc. , but same experience how on my laptop.

I will try to connect on this i7 machine via RDC, and write experience.
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26195977
Question for: "tsmvp" - You say XenDesktop ? My server is now on Hyper-V, but is not problem to migrate to XenServer. What is your opinion about visualization platform's , Hyper-V, Esx or Xen ? What to use ?
Have Xen better performance versus Hyper-V ?  
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26196018
I need only Canon Digital Photo Professional program to work with my photos. And I need to work remotely.
I do not need some 3D operations, movie etc, only pure photo editing (brightness, White balance...) , but I need to work on server because photos are in RAW format and need processor power, and after editing I convert from RAW to JPEG, and again need processor power.

What is best solution to get acceptable performance over LAN ?
XenServer, XenDesktop, XenApplication, Vmware ESX ?
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Expert Comment

by:nappy_d
ID: 26196242
It's probably been said many times over already but photo editing via an rdp session is gonna be painful for you at high resolution. Also you will not get 3bit colour only 16bit will be your maximum.

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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26196258
RDP offers 32bit colour in settings.
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26196496
I read about XenDesktop, and I have some question.
I download XenDesktop Express edition, but...

1. It's free for up to 10 users, no time limit ?
2. Is possible to work on work group, without domain ?
3. Is possible existing VM's on Hyper-V to control with XenDesktop or only way is to install XenServer ?
4. XenCenter Computer are second PC that is required ?
5. Are this requirements only way to use XenDesktop, because my server is up and running with some VM server's , and some Vista and W7 VM's, and only problem is graphic experience to bad.
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LVL 31

Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26196680
1. Free, no time limit.
2. No. Active Directory is required and the virtual desktops must be part of the domain. Explained here:
http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX118857
3. Yes you can use any virtualization backend (vSphere, Hyper-V, XenServer).
4. I did not understand.
5. Yes. Note the FREE version is very limited and for example does NOT support HDX 3D (that is for 3D apps AND graphics acceleration).

Again I still think it is easier and cheaper to get a real machine with a powerful video card and CPU/Memory and access it remotely using RDP 7 (the machine would have Windows 7). That will work for sure.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Expert Comment

by:amichaell
ID: 26196685
1. Not sure.  I've not used this version.
2. XenDesktop requires an AD environment.
3. You can use XenServer, VMWare or Hyper-V to run your VMs.
4. XenCenter is a management console for VMs running on XenServer.  
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26335434
I finally setup XenDesktop, and performance are so far so good, full HD movie plays great, picture editing are fine...only one thing are weird, that small tekst, and small icons like web links with transparent background have some "noise color" ??
Picture on full screen preview are fine, but if i look thumbnails little noise is present ?
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26335448
This are screen shot of noise on XenDesktop
noise.png
noise1.png
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26335467
Is not normal that RDC have better image quality then XenDesktop, because XenDesktop are manufactured to pure desktop experience.
Pictures in full size preview are so that in lower quality than in RDC.
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Expert Comment

by:Cláudio Rodrigues
ID: 26340437
That is simply compression that XenDesktop applies to make things quicker. I am sure you can control on the management console how much compression it will apply to graphics.

Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
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Author Comment

by:tehnoline
ID: 26341456
Do anybody know how to setup compression on XenDesktop ?
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Expert Comment

by:Glen Knight
ID: 34700412
This question has been classified as abandoned and is being closed as part of the Cleanup Program. See my comment at the end of the question for more details.
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