daniel-h
asked on
Upgrade path: Virtual Desktop Infrastructure vs. Terminal Server vs. Fat Clients
Hi experts
I would appreciate your thoughts about the possible upgrade paths for one of my client's infrastructure.
Problems:
1. Redundancy and manageability of servers have to be improved
2. Update from Windows XP to Windows 7 and from Office 2000 to Office 2010. About 10-15 workstations do not reach the minimum requirements for Windows 7/Office 2010.
3. Reduce time for supporting workstation installations
Solution to problem 1 is a SAN and an upgrade to the latest VMWare-Version, which the customer is willing to invest in.
For problems 2 and 3, I see three possible paths:
1. Upgrade the workstations or buy new ones and continue working with fat clients. Implement a software distribution solution.
2. Freeze XP on the workstations and use them as ('thin') clients for a terminal server solution (TS). (Microsoft / Citrix)
3. Freeze XP on the workstations and use them as ('thin') clients for a virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI). (VMWare / Citrix)
Now for my questions:
Upgrade path 1 is obvious, but I guess one of the other two might be the better choice.
a) Will it be possible (without impairing the user experience) to run Windows 7 from a TS or VDI on a workstation, which itself does not meet the Windows 7-requirements?
b) What are the pro's and con's of a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution? What should I consider for this client's requirements? (The client will not grow very much over the next few years.)
c) Is there a difference of the user experience between a TS-solution and a VDI solution?
d) Is there a difference of the amount of installation work needed to setup a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution?
e) Is there a difference of the amount of administration work needed to run a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution?
f) How would a TS or VDI solution support notebook users on the road without internet access?
I hope, these are not too many questions for one single experts-exchange topic. ;-)
Daniel
*****
The existing infrastructure is the following:
25 Workstations (Desktops and Notebooks)
- Windows XP Pro, latest SP and patches
- Microsoft Office 2000
- Microsoft Outlook 2003
- Adobe Acrobat 8
- Document Management Software accessing small (300 MB) SQL database
- Internet Explorer / Mozilla Firefox
- some small, non business critical applications
2 identical physical servers (HP DL380 G5, 2x Xeon 1.86GHz, 10GB RAM, RAID1 for ESX, RAID5 for Virtual Servers)
- VMWare ESX 3.5
- 4 productive virtual servers running Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition 32bit, latest SP and patches
- Domain controller 1 / file server / print server
- Domain controller 2 / backup server
- SQL-server
- Terminal server (maximum 5 concurrent users so far)
Exchange Server hosted at external provider (no internal Exchange Server)
I would appreciate your thoughts about the possible upgrade paths for one of my client's infrastructure.
Problems:
1. Redundancy and manageability of servers have to be improved
2. Update from Windows XP to Windows 7 and from Office 2000 to Office 2010. About 10-15 workstations do not reach the minimum requirements for Windows 7/Office 2010.
3. Reduce time for supporting workstation installations
Solution to problem 1 is a SAN and an upgrade to the latest VMWare-Version, which the customer is willing to invest in.
For problems 2 and 3, I see three possible paths:
1. Upgrade the workstations or buy new ones and continue working with fat clients. Implement a software distribution solution.
2. Freeze XP on the workstations and use them as ('thin') clients for a terminal server solution (TS). (Microsoft / Citrix)
3. Freeze XP on the workstations and use them as ('thin') clients for a virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI). (VMWare / Citrix)
Now for my questions:
Upgrade path 1 is obvious, but I guess one of the other two might be the better choice.
a) Will it be possible (without impairing the user experience) to run Windows 7 from a TS or VDI on a workstation, which itself does not meet the Windows 7-requirements?
b) What are the pro's and con's of a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution? What should I consider for this client's requirements? (The client will not grow very much over the next few years.)
c) Is there a difference of the user experience between a TS-solution and a VDI solution?
d) Is there a difference of the amount of installation work needed to setup a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution?
e) Is there a difference of the amount of administration work needed to run a TS-solution vs. a VDI solution?
f) How would a TS or VDI solution support notebook users on the road without internet access?
I hope, these are not too many questions for one single experts-exchange topic. ;-)
Daniel
*****
The existing infrastructure is the following:
25 Workstations (Desktops and Notebooks)
- Windows XP Pro, latest SP and patches
- Microsoft Office 2000
- Microsoft Outlook 2003
- Adobe Acrobat 8
- Document Management Software accessing small (300 MB) SQL database
- Internet Explorer / Mozilla Firefox
- some small, non business critical applications
2 identical physical servers (HP DL380 G5, 2x Xeon 1.86GHz, 10GB RAM, RAID1 for ESX, RAID5 for Virtual Servers)
- VMWare ESX 3.5
- 4 productive virtual servers running Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition 32bit, latest SP and patches
- Domain controller 1 / file server / print server
- Domain controller 2 / backup server
- SQL-server
- Terminal server (maximum 5 concurrent users so far)
Exchange Server hosted at external provider (no internal Exchange Server)
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amichaell
Fingerpointing is indeed a concern. We went with a complete Citrix solution (XenServer, XenDesktop, XenApp, etc) to alleviate much of that. Still, there is a bit, though. One issue we ran in to was a XenServer technician telling us to do things according to certain XenServer best practices, though those best practices would break Provisioning Services.
Sometimes people think I do not like VDI at all. That is not the case. I do see a benefit for using it but only in certain cases. Several things must happen with VDI to turn it into some mass used technology. As of today VDI is a niche in an already niche market, the TS one.
Until VDI can indeed become a physical desktop replacement, it will always be that, a niche. And to become a real replacement, several things must happen, some 100% up to Microsoft.
If we look at Windows (the OS), it was never meant to be used the way VDI uses it (relying a lot on layering - the only real way to make VDI work/scale) and that is just one item on the list. Another example, Windows was tuned on the I/O front end to use real, physical disks. When you move this to a virtual environment, the landscape changes completely.
Do not get me wrong. VDI will get there for sure. Is it there today? No. Will it be there next year? No. More time is needed.
Read my blog at http://www.wtslabs.com/blog. Tons of great information on VDI, the whole user installed apps debate, Bring Your Own PC idea (BYOPC) and so on. Worth reading and will give you a great picture of the current landscape in the SBC industry.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
Until VDI can indeed become a physical desktop replacement, it will always be that, a niche. And to become a real replacement, several things must happen, some 100% up to Microsoft.
If we look at Windows (the OS), it was never meant to be used the way VDI uses it (relying a lot on layering - the only real way to make VDI work/scale) and that is just one item on the list. Another example, Windows was tuned on the I/O front end to use real, physical disks. When you move this to a virtual environment, the landscape changes completely.
Do not get me wrong. VDI will get there for sure. Is it there today? No. Will it be there next year? No. More time is needed.
Read my blog at http://www.wtslabs.com/blog. Tons of great information on VDI, the whole user installed apps debate, Bring Your Own PC idea (BYOPC) and so on. Worth reading and will give you a great picture of the current landscape in the SBC industry.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
ASKER
Thanks, Michael and Claudio for sharing your valuable experience. Given that I don't want to experiment with my client's infrastructure, but suggest a stable, reliable and cost-efficient solution, TS with Citrix support would probably be the better way to go according to your input.
@Claudio
Do you have experience in running Windows 7 from a TS on a workstation, which itself does not meet the Windows 7-requirements (graphics requirements not met, RAM requirements not met)? (OK, it certainly would not be a problem adding a cheap graphics card or more RAM to an old workstation. Anyhow - if not needed, why should I spend money to upgrade?) BTW - I'll certainly read your blog - but alas, now it'ss too late in Europe, so good night ;-)
Daniel
@Claudio
Do you have experience in running Windows 7 from a TS on a workstation, which itself does not meet the Windows 7-requirements (graphics requirements not met, RAM requirements not met)? (OK, it certainly would not be a problem adding a cheap graphics card or more RAM to an old workstation. Anyhow - if not needed, why should I spend money to upgrade?) BTW - I'll certainly read your blog - but alas, now it'ss too late in Europe, so good night ;-)
Daniel
You won't be able to run Windows 7 as a TS solution. TS/XenApp is server based, so the OS your end users will experience is 2000, 2003 or 2008. With that said, TS/XenApp offloads the processing and RAM requirements to the server, so the end client just experiences screen shots and input (mouse/keyboard) feedback. The end user workstation does not need to be powerful at all due to this and doesn't even need to be Windows based.
@amichaell
I do not think he means literally running Windows 7 on TS. I assume he is aware the TS would be running an OS like Windows Server 2008 R2. That said, you can enable several options on 2008 R2 that will make the 'Desktop' for the users look identical to a Windows 7 one, with Aero glass support included.
@daniel-h
Any machine will work connecting to a 2008 R2 hosted environment and if you are on XP SP3 and the latest RDP client you will get almost Windows 7 like experience (without Aero as XP does not support it). But things like multimedia redirection will work for sure. IMHO it is good enough the way you will see it without upgrading anything and should work great. But again, as on any solution you should test for yourself.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
I do not think he means literally running Windows 7 on TS. I assume he is aware the TS would be running an OS like Windows Server 2008 R2. That said, you can enable several options on 2008 R2 that will make the 'Desktop' for the users look identical to a Windows 7 one, with Aero glass support included.
@daniel-h
Any machine will work connecting to a 2008 R2 hosted environment and if you are on XP SP3 and the latest RDP client you will get almost Windows 7 like experience (without Aero as XP does not support it). But things like multimedia redirection will work for sure. IMHO it is good enough the way you will see it without upgrading anything and should work great. But again, as on any solution you should test for yourself.
Cláudio Rodrigues
Citrix CTP
ASKER
Of course I should have written 'Windows 7-like'. I appreciate your time and your input and will most certainly go for a TS solution according to your comments. Thanks again to both of you for your answers to my questions.
Daniel
Daniel