DHCP won't start, error 5: access is denied

Please refer to the link with a microsoft solution for Your problem (works on Windows Vista and Windows 7): http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996

I have been trying to implement the solution in the above article but I don't seem to be able to change the permissions for these registry keys. It also seems that these keys already have full control. Please advise as to what else I can do

tried system restore. no go.
I think this problem started after i was playing around with user accounts and deleted on. I was not sure what i was doing. the one that i use is a networked account and now i get the access is denied error. oy.
ok -- I'm concerned that I'm too much of a newbie to figure out these fixes but I'm going to start with the first one and post back if I can't get it going.

thank you SOOO much for your time and patience (in advance :) for walking me through how to do this!!

oh, here's what i've got back from my memory

Reset WINSOCK entries to installation defaults: start->run->cmd
netsh winsock reset catalog

Reset TCP/IP stack to installation defaults. start->run->cmd
netsh int ip reset reset.log

reboot computer

please try these and post back

doing now :)

no go.... arrg.
what next??
thanks!

the solution with the registry keys from microsoft says it's for vista... is it known to be for windows 7 (64bit) too?? I really don't know much at all about registry keys so if you recommend this one I think I'll need help too :)

another mistake... in my question I said that I'm running windows 7 ultimate -- it's not ultimate - it's professional. not sure if that matters...

windows 7 is based on windows vista, just much more improved. Also, You didn't mention if You have tried using static ip address.

yes -- using static IP works!!! sorry about that
it's only when it tries to "find" one that it just doesn't -- shows that it's connected, but can't register an IP
thanks!

so, it seems like the dhcp is blocked.
try stopping firewall from the command prompt: net stop bfe
it turns off all associated firewall services

done and restarted -- no go!!
so I need to somehow turn that back on? is it important for other reasons?

what about all those registry key suggestions in the orriginal suggestion? is it worth trying those?

to turn it back: net start bfe
Try doing the registry stuff, just don't forget to backup it at first
also i have done some searching and found this one:
A GPO is controlling the firewall settings, on and off domain. The following is set in the standard (off domain) profile settings:
"Prohibit unicast response to multicast or broadcast requests" Enabled.
This should not effect DHCP broadcast messages, but apparently with Windows 7 it does.

As soon as this is disabled - workstation obtains a DHCP lease."

Also did You check Your DHCP server, i've almost forgot to mention it

uh... i didn't understand this one... I have only worked with my registry one time - over a year ago (on a different machine) with an expert walking me through.
I need guidance on how to back up and then what to do... yep - feelin like a newbie today!!! :)

when i put in net start bfe it gave back "the requested service has already been started" strange?

something you wrote just triggered something in my head -- this is a networked machine. all was working FINE with the internet - but I was confused about the user accounts. I log on to the networked identity - but there was another one on the welcome screen that also required my network password - it was wierd... and in the user accounts - there was an account called "joel-pc"... the tech person i brought this to thought maybe just deleting that would clear things up - I'm thinking maybe that' when this started... could this have something to do with the networked domain vs the other user accounts or something?? I just don't understand this stuff enough. I'm here and able to test / try anything you suggest (using wife's computer for ee - next to mine :)

thanks soooooo much!!

backing up the registry:
first of all open regedit from start->run write down regedit and press enter
regedit will open. Now right click on the branch You will edit and select export, the dialog box will open and save somewhere on your local disk.

Editing permisions:
select the registry You need, right click on it and from context menu select "Permisions"
In attached picture You can see what permissions i have in my registry
regedit-permisions.png

ok wow. giving it a try now :) wish me luck!! I'll post right back

for sure i wish good luck. and also one of thing you can do is to check your system files, they can be missing or corrupted. this can be done from command prompt: sfc /scannow
Also fond some blog entry about dhcp issues on windows 7. take a look
http://blogs.technet.com/teamdhcp/archive/2009/02/12/dhcp-broadcast-flag-handling-in-windows-7.aspx

I'm getting stuck cuz in the key that I'm trying to work on - in permissions - there is no "mpsvc" account!!! when I choose one that there is, and go into advanced, and use the "enter the object name to select" field to create it - it doesn't stick. I"m not sure what I'm supposed to be doing

ok, let's start over. open registry permission window, click Add button
in the field "Enter the object names to select" fill in with text mpsvc and press the button "Check names"
if it finds, the mpsvc text will underline

i think I did it for the second one... "configuration" -- only had full control on the admin one - not on users... so added full control to users...
but don't know if i did anything for the other one. it's so confusing.

just checked and it's not working - so whatever I did to configuration wan't it.
ouch.

could any of this do any harm? can I leave the permissions however i made them? the problem I have is that there are a whole bunch of accounts coming up for the first key and I don't understand whos who and whats what. what's my "local" machine? what is the one that I log into and use? etc etc.
sorry to be so confused here!!

ok just got your post - trying now!! you're the BEST!

worked!!!! added MpsSvc to the list of users - hurray!!!
what next?

specail permissions is already checked...

try restarting your computer. this should work

Good luck

should I uncheck full control for the users account?? I can't remember 100% but I think that it was only checked for admins and I added it to users...

wow. ok. here goes.

users have only read access

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
no luck!!! still doing same thing.

have You fixed all the registry in the link i've posted earlier? all has to be done

ok.
wait. do I have to do the "add" thing you said to the configurations too?
I'm lookign at this again.

the "Cause" section says "The error means "Access is denied". This may happen if the "MpsSvc" account doesn't have the necessary permissions for the related registry keys.
So you have to add MpsSvc to all the registry mentioned in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996

ok. there were two places - right?
looking at this again. I think I didn't do the full control on the second one like it said...

3 registry keys for mpssvc
For the NT Service\MpsSvc account, it needs permissions for the following keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SharedAccess\Epoch
Query Value;Set Value

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SharedAccess\Parameters\FirewallPolicy
Full Control;Read

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SharedAccess\Defaults\FirewallPolicy
Full Control;Read

For dhcp 2 keys
or the DHCP Client service, the issue may occur if the "NT Service\DHCP" account does not have the necessary permissions for the following keys:

Registry key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dhcp
permission needed: Query value, Create value, Enumerate Subkeys, Notify, Read Control

Registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dhcp\Configurations
permission needed: Full Control, Read

and the last one key:
For the "Diagnostic Policy Service" service, the issue may occur when the account Trustedinstaller is missing the permissions for the key below:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\DPS\Parameters
permission needed: Full Control, Read

ok - right. I was just doing the part of dhcp - there are two... do I need to do all of them? maybe - cuz it's not working yet...
by the way -- there is no permission called "create value" -- there is one called "set value" -- could that be something different between vista and 7?

The one You don't find is the effective permissions, in the permissions window select press advanced and go to effective permissions tab.
there You select the user and mark permissions from the list. after that click ok and apply buttons.
As always to see if changes works reboot your computer

question: I was just looking closely at the screenshot you sent - yours says at the top "permissions for epoch" mine said "permissions for dhcp" - of, for the other, "permissions for configurations"
did I do this wrong?? I was right clicking and selecting permissions for the things on the left in the registry tree... was that correct?

yeah -- I figured that part out (I got lucky! :) but in that list of possibilities of the special permissions - it had all of the needed one except for "create value" -- right under "query value" is one called "set value" - that's what i selected in place of "create value"

so, do you think I need to do all of them? or only the two dhcp ones.... could that be the problem still? I really think that I have the dhcp ones (the two keys it mentions" set correctly... added the mpssvc account and set the permissions they say each needs...

i didn't do from "effective permissions" - it wouldn't let me change from there... I was able to change from advanced - permissions - edit

less permissions is worse than more permissions i think, so it could work what You have selected

doing now for the other keys. I'm assuming you meant that cuz you send me all of 'em :)
thanks again so much for sticking with me!!! this will take a min here to set them and I'll post back right away

ok

i can't even believe this. I did them all. just restarted. still does not work. is there hope??? I'll recheck them all again and restart again.

have one more idea. try reinstalling tcp/ip protocol in local area connection configuration

just rechecked the whole thing - changed one thing... I unchcked the box in dhcp that said "apply to all subkeys" cuz I know that the subkeys have different permissions for the mpssvc account specified...
otherwise, the rest of it was in there already.
but now I'm really feeling demoralized cuz still no go!!!! not working!! resatarted and still same prob. connects but doesn't register the ip!!! says "identifying" and says off network!!!! help!!

k

post the error log from the event viewer system page

also try these steps to run on command prompt with administrative privilegies
start->run
enter cmd when the program appears in the list press on it right mouse button and select run as administrator
then do the following
NET START NSI
NET START TDX
NET START AFD
then try to start the DHCPClient
NET START DHCP

doh.
no luck.
let me just make sure I did it right...
from network and sharing center - chose "change adapter settings" went into properties for the connection
highlighted "internet protocol Version 4 (TCIP/IPv4)"
cliked "install"
chose "protocol" and "add
and then chose whatever it said there... forgot what it said and now it's not saying it cuz i guess it was already installed!!
did I do it right??
wehn you said it was your last suggestion - please please please say you weren't serious -right? I can't have this brand new computer not work. too heartbreaking.
what about suggestions in that other link? could we walk through something there??

I can't find the run as administrator option?? when I right click on "run" it just shows "run" and if i click it and type cmd in the space and right click on the "cmd" there is no "run as administrator" option there...
how do I get to "run as adminsrator"

also, I'll have to log in with static ip and load ee from the other comp to send error logs - can you just tell me exactly how to get those? :) I know it's somewhere in comp management... right?
thanks!

on Computer press right mouse and select Manage
Go to Event VIewer-> Windows Logs -> System
search for Error level events

ok - doing that now!

what about run as administrator?? could it be that for some reason I can't?? could that have to do with the whole reason this started that the tech peerson deleted that account? and now there is no adminstrator? or the account that I"m using can't be one?  

Please see the pic i've attached
Clipboard01.jpg

thanks for the pic!

doh!!!
all the others said "already started"
and dhcp said system error 5 access is denied!!! here's a pic

screenshot1.doc

heres all 500 of 'em. this is the only format I could figure out... do you need in some other format?
error-logs.doc

I really really really appreciate your seeing me through this :)

anything else to try?

have to turn in for the night. will check back in morning. really appreciate it. any more suggestions would be super appreciated :)
thanks

back. :) hope you have some ideas.
I'm in a position that I work remotely and can't readily get back to ger my computer re-registered on the domain at work (we know from experience that the vpn i use will not work if the computer isn't set up in the physical building...)
so starting the whole thing from scratch with some kind of massive recovery reinstall is not going to be an option for me. I'm really nervous about this. hope you can use the logs I sent and all that and research or whatever and find out a solution.
I don't know much at all about this but I once saw an article about xp mode - would that be worth a try?? since xp didn't have this problem?? (I mean, if I'm not at home and can't manually regirster an ip address - could I like, switch to xp mode as a fix in those situations??) sorry if that's a ridiculous suggestion.
I'll keep checking back today. really really hope you can help!
thanks again

please post not only events themselves, but also their details,

ok, I'll try - is there any way to do that besides pasting in a word doc? is there like an export tool? I couldn't find...

on system in event viewer press right mouse button and select save all events as

so strange... no matter where i right click, it's not giving me that option - just to open saved log.

I wanted to also post for you what the dhcp registry permissions looks like - just since the wording was different... see the attached k?
thanks!
screenshot-10.doc
screenshot-11.doc

ok is this right?? just kept playing with it...
that console is really confusing to me
error-events.xml

in a few mins I have to break for an hour - just wanted to know if that file was what you needed... ?

save as evtx or evt that i could load to my event viewer.

ok - I think I got how to export but I can't figure out how I ever filtered out only the errors!!! here (I think) is the whole log
thanks SOOO much!!
(I'm back now :)

just tried attaching and ee won't accept that file type!!! what should I do??

maybe I could email it to you? or, is there an allowable file type that I could use and then you could somehow convert?

EE accepts zip format, so compress the log

didn't work!! ee still saying "the extension of one or more files in the archive is not in the list of allowed extentions: adminstrative events log.evtx"

You can use www.sendspace.com or rapidshare to post a file on internet

cool!!
here you go :)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4r7s72

can you post back to confirm that you got it?

do you connect to a domain controller?

i have a regular dsl modem that I plug into, some of the time I connect wirelessly with an access point. once online, I dial a vpn (for email mostly) to the company that I work for overseas. my computer was made a member of this domain by the tech person at the school. from that description do you know the answer? is there some other thing that I need to check?

just curious... did you see the screenshot I posted earier with the dhcp registry permissions? does that look right to you?? ya think that "set" is the same as "create"... ?

did you find anything in the logs? hope you're around :)
I'm at the comp here for about an hour if you have any ideas. I'm so anxious (as you can probably tell :) :) to get this working - i really appreciate your help and time!

I was searching around and came across this... looks like a bit different than the ones we tried yesterday... (more general?) I'm not going to touch this without your advice to make sure it's safe... I also don't know exactly what he means by "allow all listed groups and users" - does that mean give full control to every user listed there?
can this do damage?
thanks so so much


hey, i found a work around to fix this stupid problem:-
1- first you have to login using any user with administrative
privileges.
2- start---> Run---> regedit
3- go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip.
4- right-click on the Tcpip from the left tap menu and choose
permission.
5- Choose (Allow) for all listed groups and users, then press apply and
ok.
6- go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dhcp.
7- do the same as before.
8- now plug your network cable or connect to the wireless, if u got an
IP from the DHCP then it's done, if not you have to open the services
from the administrative tools to run the DHCP clinet or stop and run the
service again.

*** YOU HAVE TO DO THIS EVERYTIME U LOG IN OR CONNECT TO THE
NETWORK.
*** THIS PROBLEM ASLO EXIST WITH WINDOWS 7 ULTIMATE.

This problem might be related to the DHCP server, seems like up-grading
from windows 2000 advanced server to windows 2003 may cause this probem,
or maybe the group policy in the active directory.

could this article be relevant?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/895149

hi - just thought I'd check if you were there... haven't heard from you in a while. hope all's well!
I was looking back over at the posts here and realized that I never tried this one:
also i have done some searching and found this one: (cuz I didn't understand what to do...)
"A GPO is controlling the firewall settings, on and off domain. The following is set in the standard (off domain) profile settings:
"Prohibit unicast response to multicast or broadcast requests" Enabled.
This should not effect DHCP broadcast messages, but apparently with Windows 7 it does.

As soon as this is disabled - workstation obtains a DHCP lease."

Also did You check Your DHCP server, i've almost forgot to mention it"

--- I also didn't do anything from the blogpost you posted: (also cuz didn't get it...)
for sure i wish good luck. and also one of thing you can do is to check your system files, they can be missing or corrupted. this can be done from command prompt: sfc /scannow
Also fond some blog entry about dhcp issues on windows 7. take a look
http://blogs.technet.com/teamdhcp/archive/2009/02/12/dhcp-broadcast-flag-handling-in-windows-7.aspx

do you think any of these things are different from what we've tried and are maybe worth a try? did you find anything useful in the error logs?
hope you're well and still there :)
have a great day and thanks!!

Long post...

Try this for me...

Enable the Administrator account and set a password.
1. Right-click My Computer - Manage - Local Users and Groups - Users
2. Right-click Administrator and select Properties. Uncheck: Account is Disabled. Leave Password Never Expires. Click OK.
3. Right-click Administrator and select Set Password. Set a password for this account. Please use a number, character and uppercase. eg.
4. Log in using the Administrator account and see if the DHCP service is working.

Let me know how it goes.

wow!! thanks so much for taking a look at this. you can see from the post that it's been sort of driving me nuts :)
I'm trying this now.
in ten mintues I have to go for an hour... I hope you'll be around later too!! I would be a very very happy camper if this could be sorted out!!

tying this now and I'll post back!

ok - enabled it - but then when I went to change password it gave me a warning about potential irreversible data loss if I try to change the password!! is this safe? what does this mean?
also, I'm not sure how to log in to that account once I'm done... what username will I use?
thanks!

Click yes to continue. You will not lose anything. When you're done click Start - > Log Off
To go in as administrator click Switch User. The profile should show up on the screen. Click on Administrator then type the password.

no go. same issue. one I remove static IP - lose internet access. if I try to manually start the service, I get the "error 5: access is denied" message.

have to run for one hour - I really really really appreciate your help - I'll check back immediately when i get back
if you need any kind of log or whatever - I'll get to you

there were some posts above that I didn't fully follow cuz didn't know how - as you can see... did try one of the registry hacks to no avail.
thanks so much!!

Hi again,
i think You have access denied because of depending services is not started.

you're back!!! thanks so so much!!
what is "depending services" - how do I fix?

While logged in as Administrator can you try the following again? (as mentioned above)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996/en-us

trying now

is this related to "depending services" that donciakas referred to? or is that a different thing...

no luck!! pretty much all of them were already set right...
just one part of one of them seemed to have been wrong

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Dhcp
permission needed: Query value, Create value, Enumerate Subkeys, Notify, Read Control

instead of "set value" the "create key" option was selected.
so I fixed that one...
otherwise all were exactly as specified in the article... it must have saved from when we switched the other day.

what next??

After making this change did you reboot?

didn't - but just did now.
no luck.

i just googled "dependent services" and it seems like there's some things that need to be put in on command prompt or something in order to start... I have no idea what i'm doing so, if this is needed, I'll wait for guidance :)
thanks so much

I'm around for the next few hours at least  - I really appreicate your time and help!!

Lets see if this is a permission problem.

Add Local Service and Network Service to Permissions of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE giving them full access.
Reboot and see what happens.

hmm... the only account that I see there are:
"everyone"
"restricted"
"system"
"administrators"

which of these do I give full access to?

First try system......if that doesn't work the try everyone.
We'll have to remove them if it doesn't work.

gulp. ok
trying system now...

system already had full control and read...
I'll add full contol to "everyone" and reboot.

didn't work
boo hoo. this is probably the most frustrating issue I've ever had!
what next?

I think all that's left is this:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/3413-repair-install.html

I can't think of anything else to try.

ok. yikes.
you're sure that this won't affect my domain membership? (i work remotely and can't get that redone without a very expensive plane ticket! :)

do I need to undo the permission granting to "everyone" that we did before?

one last thing -- what did donciakas mean above when he said "dependent services is not started" is that something that I should try to fix first?

thanks!!

i went into user accounts and noticed that the tech person at the company created by domain identity - the one that I log on as... as a "debugger user" -- is that as good as "adminstrator? or, do I need to log in on that adminstrator account that you helped me activate - in order to do this?

Yes, remove the everyone setting we set a few post before. Don't do the repair-install.

Tell me how you're setup. You have a computer from work (Laptop or desktop?) that is joined to a domain which you use from home?

It may be group policy that is causing the problem.

funny... just went to undo it. and it was already undone. I think there's a ghost in my registry.

ok - i have a laptop that I own. I work for a company overseas and I dial a vpn for exchange server email. before I even saw the computer, the tech guy at the company made it a member of the domain there so that this vpn would work (apparently this only works if you're physically in the building)...
for the first three weeks - all worked amazingly.
I took it to my tech guy here - where I live - just to have him transfer my antivirus subscription from my old laptop to this one and since then - no dhcp!!!!
the user that i use for everything is the one that's a member of the company's domain... much of the time I don't have the vpn dialed up - but much of the time I do...
anything else you need?? just tell me where to look and I'm on it :)
I really appreciate!

What type of antivirus do you have? Is there a Network Protection section in this antvirus? If so can we disable it?

Did the laptop have antivirus on it when it was working fine?

Also if this antivirus has a firewall we should temporarily disable it. I have a feeling that the antivirus may be causing the problem.

tried disabling it - and even doing a system restore to before it was installed... didn't fix this dhcp problem

it's eset nod32.
had norton on there (came factory installed...) I"m really really regretting not just leaving things but how was I to know?
the nod 32 was on my old laptop and worked no problem with the network.

So it worked fine with Norton installed by after removing it and installing eset nod32 the DHCP problem started.

A long shot...download and run the Norton cleanup tool:
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/removal_tools/Norton_Removal_Tool.exe
Just in case it left something behind.

okee dokee!!
I'll try anything :)
I'm 99% sure that the tech guy did this though cuz he did something with an "anti norton" program before he put on the nod32 - I was watching him the whole time.
after that he installed the nod and plugged the computer in to download the new virus definitions - and this was the first time noticed that it's not connecting and he needed to use a static IP...

ran it. did its thing. restarted. no luck.

are you concerned that repair install could damage my domain membership? just curious...

Go to Run - Regedit
Navigate to: HKLM\System/CurrentControlSet\Sevices\DHCP
Right-click on DHCP and select Export. Save the file as a back up.

Run the attached file dhcp reg file. Close regedit then reopen it and navigate to the DHCP folder again.
Right-click the folder and select permissions. make sure the following entries are listed.

System - Full Control + Read
Local Service - Read
Network Service - Read
Administrators group - Full Control + Read
Users - Read
Network Configuration Operators - Read
DHCP - Read + Special Permissions (grayed-out)

Click Apply if you've made any changes. Click on Advanced. Under the Owner tab make sure that Administrators (Computer\Administrators) is listed as the owner.

Reboot and see how it goes.

dhcp.reg

ok - cool. there's one additional user in dhcp... it's MpsSvc. I am pretty sure this was added at one point in one of our earlier attempts... should that be removed now before I proceed? do I need to remove it and start again?

I use Windows 7 and only have the above entries in the  permissions for the folder. I don't think it matters if it's there or not.

ok, I think I'll just leave it if you don't think it can hurt
rebooting now. holding my breath....

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(it was a long breath holding...)
didn't work.

ok gulp gulp. do you think it's a high risk thing to do? repair install is not "supposed" to mess that up right?

A repair install preserves your user accounts, data, programs, and system drivers. Not sure about the domain membership. Either way if you do the system image backup listed above you'll be able to revert back if anything happens.

Back-up your files to a flash drive or external hard drive then start with the Windows System Image backup explained in the first link (follow the instructions carefully and backup all user data files listed).

After you create the system image and back-up attempt the repair install. You'll need the Windows 7 key.

Other than this I don't know what else you can try (apart from a clean install which will definitely remove you from the domain).

ok. wow.
clean istall is defintely out.
I'll try to get a good night's sleep and start all the backups in the am. seems like it's a several hours-long process.
thanks so so much for your help with all this.
I'll post back with news :)
I'll also check again here a few times before I do it - if anyone thinks of anything in the meantime, I'm game!!
thanks so much

I CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT BELIEVE IT....  you got me thinking about the business of restoring etc - and I remembered that 300 posts ago the expert suggested system retore - which, at the time, I tried... to no avail... so I figured - what the heck and I just started trying earlier and earlier restore points... -- before I just went one or two back... and guess what -- about 6 or 7 restore points back IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DHCP STARTED INSTANTLY!!!!
I'll need to reinstall printer, antivirus, and about 10 other things - but all worth it!!!!
thank you all so so much for your time and talents in trying to navigate me through this. I wish I could give all of you 10000 points each for this - but I think I'll have to just split them even
thanks so so so much and have a great night (or whatever time it is where you are :) :) :)

No problem. I'm glad it was worth the time! When your done installing everything make a system image so you can restore it if anything like this happens again. :)

most definetly will!!!

I think experts exchange should give out some kind of award for longest strings in history... could we get some kind of toaster or something? :)

you guys are amazing. this was a nutty problem... can't believe how many things tried. thanks for sticking with me; I"m so glad and relieved that it finally seems to be solved. I'm going to go very slowly and methodically - adding in each thing that was removed by sys restore - and keep creating restore points along the way :) thanks again so so much

Wow, that was a long read, the only thing, I see he got his issue fixed, but the problem still persists.  He could potentially get an update or something and have the problem come back.  I dislike bandaids although I do understand that time can be an issue, but unfortunately for me, I'm having this issue with nothing but time on my hands...