Installing SCVMM on a VM

Hi

I'm planning to installe SCVMM on a VM.  I've been told to add only the VM subnets on the SCVMM server.  the iSCSI network must not be included.  

Is that true ?  If so how SCVMM operates when it comes to create a new VM from a template and send it out to ths Hyper-V host ?  It seems to be using the network instead of the SAN to place the VM on the host, it takes very long.  

In Vsphere it takes seconds.

Thanks for helping
quadrumaneAsked:
Who is Participating?

[Product update] Infrastructure Analysis Tool is now available with Business Accounts.Learn More

x
I wear a lot of hats...

"The solutions and answers provided on Experts Exchange have been extremely helpful to me over the last few years. I wear a lot of hats - Developer, Database Administrator, Help Desk, etc., so I know a lot of things but not a lot about one thing. Experts Exchange gives me answers from people who do know a lot about one thing, in a easy to use platform." -Todd S.

gtworekCommented:
SCVMM sends it using BITS at lowest priority.

Maybe it takes seconds in other apps but I have no idea how can you transfer several gigabytes in seconds via your normal LAN used simultaneously for other purposes without affecting other traffic.
0
quadrumaneAuthor Commented:
Ok let's just say that it's faster.   We've been using Vmware (ans now Vsphere) enterprise for years and it's way faster than Hyper-V R2.  Don't get me wrong, this is not a complaint.  I'm just trying to figure out why.   Hyper-V R2 with SCVMM is less expensive than Vmware.  Each ESX 4 license for 2 CPU is more than 6000$ + the yearly maintenance at 1800$   Windows 2008 enteprise R2 (Open Value) is less expensive than the vmware maintenance.  Of course Vmware is still  a more advanced product.

When you say SCVMM sends it using BITS are you refering to a transfer protocol ?  I was asking whether SCVMM was using SAN or network to deploy a vm from a template.  In the lab, no matter what we've been trying the network transfer mode is always used ti deply the VM from a template.  

Of course the Library is located to the SCVMM server.  But as long as SCVMM is a VM (on the SAN) I thing it should be using the SAN transfer mode.  

I know I missed something.  This is what I'm trying to find out.
0
BusbarSolutions ArchitectCommented:
SCVMM and Hyper-V is using network to deploy templates and images and never uses SAN level copy technique.
I agree with you that it might have performance drw backs, but you have to compare the end to end solution
0
IT Pros Agree: AI and Machine Learning Key

We’d all like to think our company’s data is well protected, but when you ask IT professionals they admit the data probably is not as safe as it could be.

quadrumaneAuthor Commented:
Ok at least now I know because it wasn't really explained in "Mastering Virtual Machine Manager 2008 R2"

It also means the iSCSI networking is not required on the SCVMM server.  

But I'm curious, when exactly is SAN transfer mode used ?  Only during migration from a SAN to another if the SANs are not part of a matrix ?  
0
BusbarSolutions ArchitectCommented:
even from SAN to SAN migration, the transfer uses BITS
0
msmamjiCommented:
I am copying my answer from another thread
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Microsoft/Applications/Virtual_Server/Hyper-V/Q_25785383.html
________________________________________________
Maybe the following will help.
SAN transfers or migration are available for only three scenarios
1. Moving a VM from one host to the other,
2. Moving a VM from a library to a host, and
3. Moving a VM from host to a library.

Irrespective of the case you have, the VM has to reside on the SAN storage and server needs to be properly configured to have SAN Migration available in the Admin console.

VMM also requires that each LUN contains only one VM. and each LUN should be configured as a basic disk.  This also make sense since having more than one VM on a LUN can lead to unexpected result for the other VMs. VMM requires automount to be disabled on the Hyper-V host involved in SAN migration.

NOTE: VMM does not provision or manage the SAN infrastructure. LUNs need to be created and surfaced to the host machine so that VMM server can use them.

Configuration requirement for SAN transfers:
Following components have to be installed on the VMM servers:

iSCSI SAN migrations require each host/library that is part of the SAN to have VDS 1.1 or later installed. Windows Server 2008 comes with VDS 2.1 preinstalled and does not need any configuration. Each host should also have the latest Microsoft iSCSI Initiator installed in it. The VMM server needs to have Microsoft VDS hardware provider installed.

SAN transfer does not necessarily require copying the actual files around, and the SAN infrastructure is used to mask/unmask LUNs, depending upon the direction of the transfer.

Now, as you can see from the above, if you are looking for data transfer over the wire using SAN transfer, there is not much moving on the wire.  So there might be nothing wrong with your setup.

On the other hand, when using SAN transfers you are seeing lot of traffic on either you NICs (iSCSI or LAN) then this might be worry for you.

Hope that brings some clarity.
________________________________________________

Regards,
Shahid

P.S. All the above information is mentioned in "Mastering Virtual Machine Manager 2008 R2". It is an excellent book.
0
quadrumaneAuthor Commented:
Thanks, you're right I can find the information in "Mastering Virtual Machine Manager 2008 R2"  But you've added more details.  

Hyper-V R2 is not a system I'm very familiar with yet, we've been using vmware for so many years.

Besides, i'm not sur to understand why a LUn must be created for every VM ?  In Vmware the VMFS space is taking care of everything, no matter how many VMs are sharing the same LUN.

Thanks again
A LUN must be created from the SAN management console.  As far as I know a LUN cannot be created from VMM.

It's also difficult to know exactly how large the LUN has to be.  If I have more than one VHD to add to a VM let's say for an Exchange server, but there is not enough free space I'll have to place the VHDs in another LUNs and I'm not sure it's a good practice to have many LUNs for one VM.  But I can be wrong here...
0
msmamjiCommented:
one VM per LUN is the requirement for SAN transfers. Its not a limitation of Hyper-V anymore. like VMFS, you can use CSVs to host several VMs on the same LUN with VMs being serviced on one or more nodes.
You have have several VHDs attached to a single VM, whether those VHDs are on a single LUN or distributed across several. On the contrary, having VHDs on different LUNs should improve overall performance. Its an architectural decision, you have other options as well, like pass through disk that provide better performance over VHDs.

Let me know if you need more assistance.
Regards,
Shahid
0
quadrumaneAuthor Commented:
Hello Shahid,

You said it's not anymore a limitation of Hyper-V R2.  But still, the requirement for SAN transfers keeps us from having more than one VM on any given LUN.  More than one VM can be hosted on a LUN, but we'll have to use the network transfers.

You're right, having more LUNs will improve performance.  But sometimes it's difficult to know the future.  It's easier to have a larger LUN in RAID 10 than creating multiple LUNs.  

But all things consideredd, It's a drawback we can live with I think, considering the investment.  

Thanks again
0
msmamjiCommented:
The World we live in has a lot of problems and sometimes there are solutions. :)
I had the same expectations about SAN transfers as you did, but SCVMM uses what WS08 + Hyper-V has in order to achieve all that it does. So in a way, the limitations of SCVMM are caused by limitations of Hyper-V and associated technologies.
There are situations where you can use Quick Storage Migration (QSM) in place network migraiton. QSM has some downtime involved but could be useful.
You can refer to the Mastering Book as well as the following links if you would like to explore it.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/virtualization/q-what-is-quick-storage-migration-qsm-.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/virtualization/archive/2009/06/25/system-center-virtual-machine-manager-2008-r2-quick-storage-migration.aspx

Regards,
Shahid
0

Experts Exchange Solution brought to you by

Your issues matter to us.

Facing a tech roadblock? Get the help and guidance you need from experienced professionals who care. Ask your question anytime, anywhere, with no hassle.

Start your 7-day free trial
It's more than this solution.Get answers and train to solve all your tech problems - anytime, anywhere.Try it for free Edge Out The Competitionfor your dream job with proven skills and certifications.Get started today Stand Outas the employee with proven skills.Start learning today for free Move Your Career Forwardwith certification training in the latest technologies.Start your trial today
Microsoft Virtual Server

From novice to tech pro — start learning today.