can't do defrag on XP system due to chkdsk/f.

neighbors have an XP system. They load alot of video games and every tool bar when it's offered and other junk. Their available space is 760 MB and the capacity is 141 gig. So, they have under 1% free.
I removed a couple large programs to get to the levels shown above.
I'm trying to do a defrag.
When the system bootsup there is a message that C: needs to be checked.
ok > CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3).
When it gets to 94% of stage 1 here comes this message:
file record segment 156104 is unreadable.
And the process of verifying files seems to stop.

Reboot into safe mode and attempt to defrag gets an error: saying that CHKDSK/f. is using C: or running in C:, etc. not sure, but that file is preventing a defrag.

start > run > chkdsk/f. > no file found

what needs to be done to get a defrag done and as I added up alot of the programs on the system, I did not count anything close to 141 gigs.
What else is taking up space?

also, they have "registry booster" on their system and they are the only ones who use the computer but they deny putting that on their computer. Is that a needed program or junk?
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nickg5Asked:
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itstodCommented:
search for files larger than 1 Gb on c:. You might have som problem with som extreme large log file in windows catalog or other large files.
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nickg5Author Commented:
there are no programs in the add-remove program list larger than 1 gig.
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Andrej PirmanCommented:
Registry Booster is *not* esential, nor very usefull. You can safelly remove it.

Doing defrag prior to disk check is NOT a good idea!
I'd go these steps:
- first, I'd install CCleaner http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download and run it to clear all temporary data and cookies
- then I'd check C:\ disk for full disk chack, with "Scan for bad sectors and try to repair" and "Scan free space". It will prompt that for the operation comp needs to be reboot, so reboot and it will check it
- then I'd FREE up at least 3-5 GB of disk space before doing defrag, beter to be 20 GB free!
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nickg5Author Commented:
well, now defrag is not being allowed because it says file chkdsk/f. is being used, etc. by C:
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jameso99Commented:
Use a utility like CleanUp and EasyCleaner 2.0 to remove temporary and unused files.  Then look for something like WinDirStat that will show you disk space usage.  All 3 applications are free.

Remove Registry Booster - that is garbage.  You need at least 5% disk space to run Chkdsk I believe, so you need to get to that level before doing the repair.
If you say they have that many toolbars then yes, they probably installed even more junk without knowing or paying attention.  Anything to remove programs that they don't need or use will help, but make sure they are removed correctly or you'll have problems later on.

Once you do all those cleanups, then run CCleaner and it should dump the trash and remove even more junk as well as clean the registry properly using it's own tool (you have to scan, at which point it will ask you to back up the Registry before actually removing anything - always safe to do!).
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itstodCommented:
search using windows search in the start menu. Press advanced and searh for files largen than.....
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jameso99Commented:
Reboot and go into the Recovery Console (might have to use your XP CD) -> Run a Windows Repair, but don't re-install Windows.  From there you can run the chkdsk since you are not in Windows.
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nickg5Author Commented:
the below is what we get upon bootup and we can not get past that as it stalls due to file record segment 156104.

When the system bootsup there is a message that C: needs to be checked.
ok > CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3).
When it gets to 94% of stage 1 here comes this message:
file record segment 156104 is unreadable.
And the process of verifying files seems to stop.
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jameso99Commented:
Did you try anything to clean up the drive?  Maybe download and burn to CD the Hitachi Drive Fitness Tool and run that - maybe you have a bad sector on your drive.
But I would definitely try to clean it up first.

And try a regular chkdisk (no flags) or a chkdsk /r
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nickg5Author Commented:
jameso99:
And try a regular chkdisk (no flags) or a chkdsk /r

how?
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jameso99Commented:
When it boots, skip the chkdsk, restart and hit F8, then you can chose Safe Mode Command Prompt
From there you can run chkdsk /r or just plain chkdsk
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johnb6767Commented:
Defrag should need 15% free space, doesnt it?

You need to remove files first and foremost......

JAM Software - Windows Freeware
http://www.jam-software.com/software.html

Diruse Overview
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/9c846489-03cb-4848-8805-aa17430b84eb1033.mspx

Treesize will give you a graphical view by folder, of the file sizes included, and tell you where the space is being used.....

Diruse will also show folders that you dont have access to.....

Secondly, once you have gotten some junk removed....

Run a chkdsk at bootup (so the C: drive will not be locked)

start>run>cmd.exe

chkdsk /f /r

Then reboot, and look in the Event Viewer>Application Log under the source Winlogon, for a report......

Thirdly, once you get enough free space, retry running the defrag......

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nickg5Author Commented:
When it boots, skip the chkdsk, restart and hit F8, then you can chose Safe Mode Command Prompt
From there you can run chkdsk /r or just plain chkdsk

the above does not work..............

I ran CCleaner and let it remove everything it wanted.

I try to reboot in safe mode and it never boots to the desktop.
 I can not go to start > system tools > defrag and do a defrag. It says chkdsk is being used and defrag can not proceed.

On a regular bootup, the choices are to allow or not allow the "file checking".
Hitting a key prevents the file check and gets me to the desktop. Can not do  a defrag from there due to the chkdsk file.
The one I'm seeing as an error  is /f and above others are using R or no letter at all plus a space between chkdsk and the / which makes me not sure if a space is to be there or not.
To let the file checking continue, it hangs up after 94% of stage one because of file segment 156104.

Can't get to the desktop in safe mode and if I do get to the desktop can not do a defrag. Failure to get to desktop in safe mode "stops" on a screen that says "partition 2" and has the whole screen full of that. It bogs down, or locks up at that point. I removed close to 2 gigs of stuff.

The chkdsk process of file checking which I have never seen on a computer before is blocking the ability to do a defrag.

This computer they have was specially built for the legally blind and is full of stuff, I've never heard of or seen.

The system needs to be able to read the unreadable file segment 156104 for the file checking to proceed.
Can not bootup in safe mode.
I was able to several times but now it gets to the partition screen and stops.
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nickg5Author Commented:
johnb6767
Run a chkdsk at bootup (so the C: drive will not be locked)
start>run>cmd.exe
chkdsk /f /r
Then reboot, and look in the Event Viewer>Application Log under the source Winlogon, for a report......

all of the above, not sure HOW.
start > run cmd.exe gets a chkdsk run automatically?

this computer is showing chkdsk/f  "not" chkdsk (space)/f or r

What is an event viewer? Never seen one on any computer in 15 years.

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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
I had a similar problem with chkdsk not completing. Running from the command line didn't work, but I found a suggestion that did:
Set chkdsk to run on bootup with:
Start -> MyComputer, Right-click on the drive you want to check (C:) and click Properties on the drop down menu. Choose the Tools tab and click the Check Now button. Click the Automatically Fix Errors check box (This sets chkdsk to run with the /f option).
You could try clicking start to begin the scan but mine failed due to files in use.
To get around this set to boot into safe mode: Click Start -> Run, type msconfig and go to the Boot.ini tab. Choose the /SAFEBOOT option.
When you boot the computer it will boot into safe mode and run the chkdsk, hopefully fully (mine did and announced several fixes).
You will need to go back into msconfig (from the start->run) and set to Normal Startup on the General tab after the machine has successfully booted.
 
 
Registry Booster is a tool that promises to clean the registry of unneneded entries and so speed up the computer, I don't know if it is any good, but it is a free download with an option to pay for the full version. I would check that this hasn't been paid for before you delete it.
 
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nickg5Author Commented:
Run a chkdsk at bootup (so the C: drive will not be locked)
....................when I try the process stops at 94% of stage 1 of 3 stages and says file segment 156104 is unreadable, so my only choice is to hit a key and bypass the file checking process = no defrag ability once I get to the desktop.

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nickg5Author Commented:
I do not have convenient access to their computer. I'll have to try RobinD's idea tomorrow, as well as any other ideas that come in.

I removed Registry Booster and also Google Chrome, all cookies and temp files, and all things that were checked when CCleaner did it's scan.
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kamalp123Commented:
disk might be unreadable by chkdsk because of bad sectors.
go to your harddisk manufacturer website and download disk manager tool.
using that fix the badsectors.

now complete the chkdsk.
then do defrag.
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nickg5Author Commented:
it's not my machine, I may not be able to get the name on the hard drive. I can assume Western Digital and Seagate and see what happens.
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johnb6767Commented:
Bottom line is if you cant pass a chkdsk, youve got a failing hdd......
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
While you can still start it up, chkdsk skipped or not, this is a good time to ensure that your backups are up to date.
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jameso99Commented:
Did you try the Hitachi Drive Fitness Test tool I mentioned earlier?  It works on non-Hitachi-branded drives

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v416_b00.iso

It will tell you right away if the drive has errors.  You just have to make sure you BIOS boots to CD/DVD first after putting that ISO onto a blank CD.
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nickg5Author Commented:
johnb6767
Bottom line is if you cant pass a chkdsk, youve got a failing hdd......
.....the computer is under 1 year old.........still failing?

given to the person by Veterans administrator especially built for the legally blind and containing software I've never seen or heard of before. Failing hard drive should mean the user has done something. He is mentally 7 years old and accepts any download he is offered from a website. He has been warned many times. ex: his ISP which I have gives 2 free e-mail adresses. Instead he wants e-mail thru Pogo and opens all anonymous e-mails he gets. Again  he was warned many times.
I can not even right click on the desktop to create a "new folder" to help cleanup the desktop, so this computer is different in some ways.

I'm going to go in an remove all non Windows programs to try to clear some of the used space and try to get to the desk top using safe mode.

jameso99:
Did you try the Hitachi Drive Fitness Test tool I mentioned earlier?
He can not burn a CD so that eliminates Fitness Test. I've never burned or backed up anything either.

His system is so full of video games, etc. (and that is all he has on there, losing data is not an issue. There is nothing to backup as far as value).

I can only spend maybe an hour a day over there due to other obligations. I'll have to slowly try things.

RobinD: It sounds like your idea is a way around the CHKDSK thing, and the "unreadable file segment 156104" < > these are the two things keeping me from doing a defrag. I can not bootup in safe mode either, it gets beyond the XP screen to the partition screen and stops.
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
Hi nick, it's not a workround.  As I understand it is the way XP is supposed to work but they forgot to tell anybody. what it does do is slot nicely into the boot process so hopefully will allow chkdsk to complete . Be aware that the 3 chkdsk stages will take some time to complete, maybe more than an hour so take along a sandwich and put the kettle on.
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nickg5Author Commented:
well, we waited over an hour to allow stage 1 to progress past 94%.
It said 'file segment 156104 was unreadable?

does that mean that the chkdsc stages has terminated?
or is it still progressing?

We alllowed an hour for stage 1 to complete after it went from 0% to 94% in only a couple minutes.
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
It sounds like it stopped as you first described. 1t was the later stages that took most time. Mine was hanging at  48 % and only went past that when I did what I described above.
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jameso99Commented:
Try running Disk Checker in Windows (http://majorgeeks.com/Disk_Checker_d258.html)
Might tell you something about the drive at least
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nickg5Author Commented:
jameso99: can not get to desktop to download anything. I was going to try to let malwarebytes remove whatever it wanted but the idea from RobinD has encountered problems.

RobinD:
This computer has something called Acronis on it. When booting up, the first screen you see, there is an option to click F11 to go to the Acronis recovery manager. I tried that "last" and in there it asks for a password and of course the pc owner does not know it and says he has never heard of Acronis. The other option without password is "boot windows normally".
Doing that and we get to the chkdsk screen. Yesterday and today it would start stage 1 of 3, get 94% through that and then a message saying file segment 156104 is unreadable. Same thing today but then "after" start > run > misconfig > boot.ini tab > /safeboot = trouble. Before this, I did the other part of your suggestion, start > mycomputer > right click, etc. and it failed as yours did.

Once I selected restart (after boot.ini tab > /safeboot) it won't boot up on it's own. F8 always ends with this screen: a full screen of:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
and things like that.
Not using F8 to try to get to safe mode results in the chkdsk screen. One time is got past the file segment 156104 and progressed to 156105 and 156106 being unreadable too and it stopped or paused, not sure. We waited about 20 minutes and then I turned the pc off again.

Now the system can not be booted up.
Here are the results:
1. F8 lets me select safe mode > XP > enter but when this screen appears:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
it woon't progress past that.
2. No F8, gets to the chkdsk screen and the last time we tried it got stopped after finding file segment 156104 as unreadable.

So, can not get to the desktop at all.
So, can not go back into misconfig and set to normal startup.

There are other choices on the page where safe mode can be chosen.
Would any of those be of value?

Not sure why the bootup gets to:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
and stops.

Before doing any of the above, I removed some of the larger programs. and tried a defrag and keep getting the message that chkdsk is using C:
It showed free space as 1%.

So, can not get to desktop at the moment to try anything else.
Only the "owner" knows where "Acronis" came from. He is the only person to use the computer and denies all the things he claims. He lies to my face saying he never used Pogo for e-mail and I ask hi mto send me an e-mail thru the ISP mail system and he backs down. He is 100% responsible for the problems of his hard drive being 99% full.

When I was able to open IE, I could not close it. Windows always said it was closing it as a safety measure or something. I'd click the X for close and always get "not responding".
I can not right click on an open area of the desktop, when I could get to the desktop. He had 5 different home pages, etc. and other things he should not have. He signs up for everything a webpage offers him.

So we are at a dead end here:
Here are the results:
1. F8 lets me select safe mode > XP > enter but when this screen appears:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
it woon't progress past that.
2. No F8, gets to the chkdsk screen and the last time we tried it got stopped after finding file segment 156104 as unreadable.

We've got a shop that will do free diagnosis. The pc owner has some programs specificly put on his machine since he is legally blind, some voice software, etc. and if he needs a new hard drive, I'm afraid he may lose programs that only his system has. I'm sure Veterans Administrator is not going to give him another free computer or fix this one.

Open to ideas.

Oh by the way, on one of my last attempts to try safe mode, I clicked F8 and got to the Windows Advanced Options Menu and it was set on "safe mode". Clicking my "enter" key got nothing, that page was locked up.

Also, I forgot to mention that when the chkdsk screen appears and used to give me 10 seconds to click any key to bypass the process, that no longer works. Clicking a key won't stop the chkdsk process. It stops there, or if F8 is used it gets to that other screen full of:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
and bootup stops there.

I think help is now HELP.

Thanks.
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jameso99Commented:
You'll really want to read up on how to burn a CD image to a blank CD.  This way you can download the software you need to not only check the hard drive to see if it's dead but attempt to fix it.

There are several boot CDs you can make that will let you boot into a light version of an operating system and check your system, run virus scans, manage files, and more importantly- fix corrupted hard drive sectors.  
Drive Fitness Tool is a way to see if you hard drive is indeed toast or if there's hope for recovery.  You can get this download and then "burn" the image onto a CD so you boot into the CD on the bad system (you'll need a working computer to download and do this).

From there you can move on to other recovery tools like Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html) or others that will let you diagnose and try fixes on your hard drive.  SystemRescueCD (http://www.sysresccd.org/Quick-start-guide_EN) is another one but is a little more intense.  

One I just came across is HDD Scan and Repair (http://www.salvationdata.com/data-recovery-freewares/hdd-scan-c.htm) available for free- you might be able to fix the bad sectors with this tool.

Either way, you're going to want to learn how to burn an ISO image to CD.  It may or may not fix the problem, but it's what the tech guys you'll end up paying $300 will end up doing for you.
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nickg5Author Commented:
so, I can burn a CD with one of those tools using my computer and then go across the street and insert the CD into his CD rom and then do what since the PC won't bootup.

here you go...jump in......
http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Windows/XP/Q_26108905.html


if others can respond some more here, please do....RobinD and others. Thanks.
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Thibault St john Cholmondeley-ffeatherstonehaugh the 2ndCommented:
If you can get to read the disk, C:\boot.ini (might be a hidden, sys and read only) is the file that contains your mult(0)disk(0) etc line. at the end of that should be " /safeboot:minimal " this is what was added by the msconfig. Without that at the end of the line it should be back as it was before that alteration.
I think it is a normal text file (can edit with notepad or other text editors) but it is usually changed through msconfig and any errors in editing it could result in an even more broken system - take a copy first.
 
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nickg5Author Commented:
RobinD:
can you explain your last comments again? as to what to try?

Before i did the msconfig thing, bootup would stop at that screen that was full of:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) > similar, etc.
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) > similar > etc.
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) etc.
etc.

It would not boot past that. The only way we got a boot up was to press a key while CHKDSK was in process (within the allowed 10 2nd) time limit) and then we got to the desktop. That does not work any more, pressing a key to bypass CHKDSK. So, that is a dead end and F8 is too due to that other screen.

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nickg5Author Commented:
jameso99:
Reboot and go into the Recovery Console.
.........where is recovery console....?....in BIOS?
Thanks.
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jameso99Commented:
The Recovery Console is accessed from the Windows XP CD, but it doesn't sounds like you are really going this route.  
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Windows+XP+Recovery+Console
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nickg5Author Commented:
We have the Windows XP disc and can try that......what should be done once we get to the recovey console? Are the prompts straight forward?

I'll check that link out.......
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nickg5Author Commented:
I'm not sure I'm knowledgable enough to follow the recovery console instructions and removing it. I've never done it and the process is detailed.
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nickg5Author Commented:
trying ISO from UBCD did not boot the system using F12.
Tried the XP disc to get to recovery console using F12 did not work.

Everything tried results in the same thing, a failure of CHKDSK to continue past file segment 156106 as being not readable, the inability to press any key to bypass CHKDSK, and F8 to try safe mode gets stuck on the screen that is full of
stuff like this:
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\windows\system 32\drivers\ntfs.sys
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) > similar, etc.
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) > similar > etc.
mult(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) etc.
etc.
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nickg5Author Commented:
I'll tell you what happened. Some lady with a VA car tag came and according to the pc owner, who has ever owned one until a couple months ago, said "guess what was wrong with my computer?"
He said his files were "crushed".
I said, I had never heard that term used with computers. Maybe your files were corrupted and she used an external hard drive to emtpy yours. He did not mention seeing any other external equipment, but she was able to get in there and remove all content.
I''ll try to find out more about what she did, maybe call her.
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