What exactly can Golden Hawk CDRWIN version 4.0H do?

What exactly can Golden Hawk CDRWIN version 4.0H do? How and why is it better than others, or is it? Better than Alcohol 120%? Why would somebody buy CDRWIN than Alcohol 120% or something else? What are the TOP reasons why CDRWIN is very good? What are the TOP things that CDRWIN can do that others can't?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
CDRWin has been an excellent CD copy and creation utility for well over a decade, and is still the best utility IF you want/need to have complete control over the structure of the disc.

The cue sheets it supports allow very detailed control of the resulting disc -- you can easily control the exact pre-and-post track gaps, the amount of silence between audio tracks (including none), and many other low-level parameters that simply aren't available in other CD recording packages.

Having said that, it's rare these days that you NEED these features -- most modern (and much more Windows-friendly) recording software will do what the vast majority of folks want ... and the "learning curve" to understand and use the detailed controls of CDRWin is fairly steep. I was quite good at it a decade ago, but rarely use it these days, and have to review my notes to do the more complex functions. In fact, I haven't upgraded since version 3.9, and likely won't, as it does everything I need for the few times I still use it.

When I do use it, I boot to XP (my system can boot to XP, Vista, or '7) -- and I'm not sure whether or not CDRWin runs under '7. (It does work with Vista -- I simply choose to use XP for the few older utilities I still run from time-to-time) That may in fact be one of the reasons to upgrade to the latest version.

If you think you may want the detailed control it offers, I'd simply download and install the latest version, and try it for a while. The download is fully functional without registration -- it simply limits your recordings to 1X speed. As I noted, the cue sheets are VERY powerful -- but do take a while to master. In addition to the cue sheets (used to create CDs to your exact specifications), there are many technical parameters you can modify via the Settings interface that let you have complete control of copy and backup operations.

Bottom line: It's an excellent utility that has much more lower-level control than most other CD burning utilities, but unless you need those additional functions there's little reason to use it.    But it's free to try, so you can easily try it and decide if you'd like those added features.
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dbruntonCommented:
Possibly

Powerful disc backup utility that preserves the exact layout of the original disc including all subcode information. - from http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm  That would be the main reason.  Very few modern burning applications do that.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDRWIN and the Playstation section for what that means.

Other reasons for it are also at  http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm and http://www.goldenhawk.com/  Other apps do some of the same as what is listed there.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Hello,

<CDRWin has been an excellent CD copy and  creation utility for well over a  decade>

Could you explain in  more detail please? Is it limited to what it can copy? Can it copy  almost anything? Can CDRWIN copy discs that are copy protected?

<Powerful  disc backup utility that preserves the exact layout of the  original  disc including all subcode information>

Can CDRWIN copy discs that are copy protected and include the exact layout of the original disc including all subcode information?

I read the Experts-Exchange rules here, I'm not trying to break any laws/rules here I just want to know what CDRWIN can and can't do. Just to let you guys know.

I have read online that if you own a PC game and you want to make a copy of it so you don't damage the original other programs can copy the disc but when you try to play the copied disc the game doesn't work. Would the copy you make with CDRWIN work because it copies the exact layout of the  original  disc including all subcode  information?

Would CDRWIN be better than Slysoft CloneCD?
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dbruntonCommented:
Backing up a CD is probably legal in most countries.  You'll have disagreements with the music and film industry on that point.  Copying it is probably not legal.  There is a difference.  If you make a copy to save as a backup there should be no problem.  But check the legality wherever you live.  Making more than one copy will get you into trouble with any judge.

Also see http://game-copy-software-review.toptenreviews.com/ for statement on copy and backup plus reviews of software.  I wouldn't necessarily believe the accuracy of their reviews however.

I'll use the term copy here instead of backup but note the first paragraph above.

Straight ordinary copying of game disks won't work because of the various tricks employed by the disk manufacturers.  Playing around with subsector information was one means of doing it and I am thinking of early Playstation games.  That is extremely old technology.  Since then though the methods have changed greatly.

Proprietary consoles such as XBox and such are probably not copyable.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection for lots of information.

Now which is the better copier for PC type game disks?  I wouldn't use CDRWIN for that purpose.  I'd go for one of the apps that specialises in that job.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Hello dbrunton,

Ok. I found this topic very interesting that is why I asked the question.

What would be the TOP reasons for using CDRWIN? You said you wouldn't use CDRWIN for PC type game disks, so CDRWIN would be better for music, and application data discs?

Does CDRWIN copy discs that are copy protected? And is that why they always come out with a new version to decrypt the NEWER copy protections like Slysoft CloneCD?

Would CDRWIN be better than Slysoft CloneCD in copying music and application data discs?

According to Slysoft, CloneCD makes an 1:1 copy. What is an exactly 1:1 copy? And does CDRWIN do the same thing or something better. As in does CDRWIN copy more information off the disc to make a much better copy?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
GoldenHawk's official answer r.e. whether or not you can copy protected game discs:   "... Even though our software is capable of copying many game discs, please be aware that we will not answer any questions regarding the copying of Playstation, Saturn, or other game discs due to the excessive piracy of these titles..."

There are many forums that discuss the difficulties and methods of backing up your game discs -- those are the place to go for information on those topics.    Note that many of these suggest using CDRWin as the tool for making the copies -- and provide details on the specific settings you need for various discs.

As I noted earlier, CDRWin is unprecedented in the low-level capabilities it provides for controlling your CD drive.    If you want a simple "just copy it" utility, then Alcohol, CloneCD, etc. are much easier to use.    It just depends on what your needs are (and how much time you're willing to spend to master the application).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Hello garycase,

Can CDRWIN make exact copies of protected music and or application data discs too?

I posted a comment right before you. Please comment that I asked to dbrunton I would like to have both of your opinions.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
"... As in does CDRWIN copy more information off the disc to make a much better copy? "  ==>  No.    Although for some discs YOU can create a better copy by adjusting the parameters of the copy (by choosing the specific subcodes, etc.) ... but as I've noted this takes a lot of knowledge of the disc structure and expertise with CDRWin.

As I suggested above, just download it and give it a try -- that's the best way to get a feel for its features and capabilities.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I need to buy a optical disc drive. The drive that I have doesn't support CDRWIN. Can you suggest one that will work perfectly with CDRWIN. I would need a SATA drive. Can you suggest a drive that is most current?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Can you tell me why certain optical disc drives work with CDRWIN and some that don't? As in why some are compatible and some that are not?
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dbruntonCommented:
>> You said you wouldn't use CDRWIN for PC type game disks, so CDRWIN would be better for music, and application data discs?

I wouldn't use it for application data disks.  No need.  These have strong error control built in.  Music disks if you wanted a totally accurate copy as these have poor error control.

>> What would be the TOP reasons for using CDRWIN?

See its features list eg fast and unattended duplication with the right hardware.  And note garycase's first answer.

>> Does CDRWIN copy discs that are copy protected?

Can't speak of new disks.  The old Playstation disks, yes.

>> And is that why they always come out with a new version to decrypt the NEWER copy protections like Slysoft CloneCD?

Which is why Slysoft and similar companies come out with new versions.

>> Would CDRWIN be better than Slysoft CloneCD in copying music and application data discs?

See answer at top.

>> What is an exactly 1:1 copy?

Exact duplication of disk that contains all errors, defects and correct information as the original does.

>> And does CDRWIN do the same thing or something better. As in does CDRWIN copy more information off the disc to make a much better copy?

Similar.  What the products actually do and how they do it is known only to the companies.  The information on the disk is not just the information.  For example there may be two layers of error control codes on the disk if it is a data disk.  And possibly other codes also that are not normally read.  Most applications will just copy the data off and apply error correction to make sure they get the correct data.  Applications such as CDRWIN and Slysoft will copy the data as it is and the error correction code information as it is and write that to the new disk whether the data and error correction codes are correct.  That is what makes the 1:1 copy.

Supported devices http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm and click on Supported Devices.
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dbruntonCommented:
>> Can you tell me why certain optical disc drives work with CDRWIN and some that don't? As in why some are compatible and some that are not?

Support for RAW DAO & Sub-Channel Data.  If they don't have this type of support then CDRWIN and similar type applications can't create the copies.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. Would CDRWIN and CloneCD be the TOP copy/cloning applications out there? Is there any applications that can copy/clone a disc with no errors as the original disc? Or is that impossible?
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dbruntonCommented:
>> Would CDRWIN and CloneCD be the TOP copy/cloning applications out there?

Depends what you are doing.  CloneCD is highly regarded in the game forums.


>> Is there any applications that can copy/clone a disc with no errors as the original disc? Or is that impossible?

Impossible.  Continuing war between the copy protection companies and the DVD/CD copying application companies.  If you bought a copying application today it would probably handle all of the old (two or three year old going back) games with no problems and might choke on some new games.  But it would probably choke on games of the future.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
As dbrunton noted above, different drives support different features -- and some drives don't allow overriding standard features.    CDRWin can take full advantage of the various features on the drives ... and can sometimes make "better" copies by disabling certain features on the drives -- but only if the drive's firmware allows it.    That's why GoldenHawk maintains a list of drives and what features they allow.     That's also one of the key reasons for continuous updates -- to provide support for more drives.

As for cloning a disc ... for standard discs this is simple;   for copy-protected discs MUCH less so, as these often have intentional errors on the disc that cause most copy utilities to either fail or to "correct" when they copy the disc ... which will cause the disc or the software thereon to fail.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I see. I'm a little bit confused is all. I would like to try CDRWIN perhaps buy it, but I don't know which optical disc drive to buy. I'm on the support device site right now but I would like to use all of the features that CDRWIN has to offer. I don't want to buy a  optical disc drive and find out that a feature in CDRWIN doesn't work because I bought the wrong optical disc drive.

Can I have both you pick out for me a optical disc drive that will not only work with CDRWIN but will work with all of it's features please? I would need a SATA drive for copying and burning.

Thank you!
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dbruntonCommented:
It looks like they don't offer SATA drives for their product at this time.

IDE or SCSI only.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
The interface doesn't matter -- it's a function of what features the drive supports (CD XA, CD Text, CD-Extra, etc.).      The most consistently compatible drives for years have been Plextor.     I'd get one of these, which I'm confident will support all of the important modes:   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249054

I've got two drives in this particular system -- a Lite-On and a Plextor.   The Lite-On does not support all modes in CDRWin, but the Plextor (a PX800) does, as you can see below ...


CDRWin-PX800---Read-Options.jpg
CDRWin-PX800---Write-Options.jpg
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Hello again,

I'm a little bit confused. According to dbrunton CDRWIN only offer IDE or SCSI only.

And garycase finds a drive for me that is SATA.

I went back to the supported devices page and I don't see the PLEXTOR PX-880SA supported on their site. Are you able to find me the same drive that you have the "a PX800"? Or don't I need a "a PX800"? Or is that drive to old?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
garycase,

How do you tell if a drive will support all of the features in CDRWIN as shown in your pictures?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
CDRWin only checks the boxes for the features the drive supports -- all of the boxes are checked.     The same screen for my other drive has a couple of empty (unchecked) boxes.

The interface doesn't matter.   The drives are "talked to" with a well-defined ATAPI command set ... doesn't matter if the interface is IDE or SATA.    So there's no reason CDRWin shouldn't work equally well with SATA drives.    Remember, it's the DRIVE that either supports or doesn't support the varioius features ... and CDRWin determines that by simply polling the drive.    However, the only way to know for sure if CDRWin will work with a particular SATA drive is to try it -- it won't hurt anything ... it will just report an "unsupported device" and will only support the basic functionality -- none of the extra drive features  (clearly you don't want it to work like that).    Note that at least one SATA drive is on GoldenHawk's supported drive's list -- the Plextor 810SA (the "SA" is SATA).    I'm fairly confident that the 880SA I listed above is simply a newer version of that -- and should work just fine with CDRWin.



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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. If I go ahead and buy the Plextor PX-880SA, do you think that it will support all of the features that are checked in the pictures you have provided and then some?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Would it be wise to buy the only SATA drive or should I buy a IDE drive? The IDE drive that you have? My mobo supports both SATA and IDE.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I doubt that it matters, but if you want to be sure SATA isn't an issue, you could buy this IDE drive:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249053

Although it's not listed on CDRWins page, I'm sure it supports the full 800 series Plextor command set, so all of the boxes will be checked  (I'd expect the same thing with the SATA drive I listed above).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I'm just curious but have you personally ever seen optical disk drives that work perfectly with CDRWIN but isn't listed on their supported devices page?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes -- I've often used Plextor drives that weren't on the supported list ... although they eventually get added.     Plextor is very good at always providing support for ALL of the optional features drives can support.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I went ahead and purchased the PLEXTOR PX-880SA.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249054

Should be here in a couple of days.

I would like to keep this question open for a couple of days and wait until I get my package and comment back with the results.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Definitely interested in the results :-)
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
When backing up a disc, can CDRWIN back the disc up to a .iso image or .bin/.cue image to the hdd instead of making a backup to a disc or copy "on-the-fly"?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Once I get the drive, will I need to update the firmware or just let it be?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, you can read a disc to a .bin/.cue file on the hard disc instead of doing an on-the-fly copy.

As for the drive's firmware ...  first just install the drive and see what CDRWin shows for its capabilities -- if all the boxes are checked on both the Read and Write menus (the ones I posted above) then you're fine.
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dbruntonCommented:
Hmm.

Interesting.  I went through a number of Goldenhawk's drives and found only IDE and SCSI.  In my travels I found an internet link which said Goldenhawk didn't support SATA drives.

See http://demon.acoustica.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=2859&view=next&sid=e53f9113296451ac721a050ef4138798

which explains my comments.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok now I am confused. Does CDRWIN support SATA or doesn't it? Does the drive I just bought work with CDRWIN or not? Or am I out $39.99 now?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Even if the drive doesn't work with CDRWin you'll still have a very good drive -- or you can simply return it for a $6 restocking fee. But GoldenHawk does list the Plextor 810SA (a SATA drive) as a supported drive -- so I'd expect the 880SA to work fine. Only way to know for sure is to simply try it. [You clearly chose to take the risk, as I noted a different IDE drive you could have bought in my earlier comment: "... if you want to be sure SATA isn't an issue, you could buy this IDE drive: ... ]

Note also that the link dbrunton posted above r.e. SATA drives not working with CDRWin is two years old -- clearly a much older version of CDRWin.
You'll know for sure in just a few days ...
 
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Is there a way to contact GoldenHawk directly? I only see tech support e-mail. Is there a phone number to talk to someone directly?
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dbruntonCommented:
Yes, it does support SATA.

The 810-SA is on Goldenhawk's list as garycase says and is a SATA drive.  So Goldenhawk does support SATA and the comment in the internet link was wrong.

And here are the specifications of your drive.

http://www.plextoramericas.com/index.php/dvd-rw/internal-dvd-rw/px880sa?start=1

And here from the list is

Supported CD Writing Method
Disc-at-Once, Track-at-Once, Session-at-Once, Fixed Packet, Variable Packet

The Disc-at-Once is the important bit.  You should be right.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
<The Disc-at-Once is the important bit.  You should be right.>

Why is that? Is that important for CDRWIN?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
They only have e-mail support as far as I know ==> but since you've already ordered the drive I'd not worry about it -- I'd be very surprised if it doesn't work.    I've never seen a Plextor drive that didn't work fine with CDRWin and fully support all of the operating modes for both reading and writing discs.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Disc-at-Once is just a recording mode whereby the entire disc is burned at once rather than burning it a track at a time ==> virtually all drives support this.     The features that often aren't supported are CD+G and CD-TEXT  ... and every Plextor drive I've seen supports both of these features.    Some drives also can't read the subcode information from discs ... but again I've never seen a Plextor that couldn't.

Just be patient and wait for your drive :-)      Then just look at the Devices and Settings page in CDRWin and see what it shows for your drive.      I'm confident it will look exactly like the two that I posted earlier.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok garycase.

<I've never seen a Plextor drive that didn't work fine with CDRWin and fully support all of the operating modes for both reading and writing discs.>

Would there be a difference in IDE vs SATA making the drive not work with CDRWIN?

Overall you think the drive is going to work perfectly no matter if it's IDE or SATA.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I'd expect the drive to work just fine -- but if for any reason it doesn't I'm sure the IDE version would.     Just install it;  run CDRWin, and confirm what features it "sees" for the drive.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Have you ever tried using verbatim blank media with CDRWIN? According to GoldenHawk, verbatim falls under the "cheaper" discs. I thought verbatim was top quality?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I only use Taiyo-Yuden media these days -- for both CDs and DVDs.    But Verbatim blanks are fine for CDs (I'd stay with a higher quality blank for DVDs).       Note the question isn't whether they work well with CDRWin ... but whether they work well with your recorder (the Plextor).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I keep hearing the Taiyo-Yuden media is I guess really good. Can you confirm? And so why do they work so great? What makes them better than other companies, "Sony" Verbatim" "TDK" and so on.

Oh, and can you confirm that Taiyo-Yuden media works with CDRWIN?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, of course Taiyo-Yuden works with CDRWin.    It's very high-quality media.     Even their less-expensive "valueline" discs are quite good (although I don't buy the valueline media).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok Thanks.

I have noticed that Taiyo-Yuden doesn't make hardly any DVD+R's just -R's. Can you tell me some other brands that are very high-quality media like Taiyo-Yuden? I thought verbatim was but I guess I was wrong. And that will work with CDRWIN?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I've tried a variety of brands, but for the past 3-4 years have only used Taiyo-Yuden (and see no reason to switch -- I have NEVER had a "coaster" that was the media's fault).

Taiyo-Yuden DVD+R:  http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-plus-r-media-100

Taiyo-Yuden DVD-R:  http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-100-pack

Taiyo-Yuden CD-R:  http://www.supermediastore.com/product/u/taiyo-yuden-48x-cd-r-silver-thermal-printable-100
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I got the drive today. I installed the drive Windows detects it everything looks fine in Windows. I start CDRWIN, I select "Record Disc" I get "No supported CDROM Recorder was found on the system !" What is this?! What now?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Well, it appears that CDRWin can't use that SATA drive.    I'm surprised, since they list an 800SA as a supported drive and this is just a newer version of that line.      However, as you may recall, I said    "...  if you want to be sure SATA isn't an issue, you could buy this IDE drive:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249053

It seems that if you want to use CDRWin that's what you'll have to do.

... one other thought before you buy another drive:    Did you install the APSI layer that GoldenHawk provides?    Be sure to configure CDRWin to use that driver  (or, if it's already using it, try using the Windows default ASPI layer).
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JeremySBrownCommented:
Do me a favor, can you find me the same drive that you have the Plextor DVDR PX-800A?
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JeremySBrownCommented:
And yes, I installed the ASPI layer.
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JeremySBrownCommented:
Hi Gary,

This is for a friend of mine, ;) He is new here on Experts-Exchange so I am helping out here. ;)
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
garycase,

Jeremy had to leave. Umm.. Ok how would I use the Windows default ASPI layer?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
On the settings tab of CDRWin is a choice about which ASPI layer to use.

As for finding a PX800A  -- unless you can find one on ebay or Craig's list, or in stock at a local computer store that has some NOS (new old stock) drives, you're likely out of luck.    I'm REASONABLY sure that a current Plextor IDE drive of the same 800 series (i.e. the PX-870A I linked to above) will work fine with CDRWin ... but do not know that for sure.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I tried what you recommend, that didn't work either.

I'm not having any luck finding a PX800A. Perhaps I should look into something else other then a Plextor? I know someone who has a OLD Asus CRW-5224A model and it has everything checked under the "Recorders tab", in the picture you posted previously. It does everything.

CDRWIN is still in business? Every time I try to send a email to there technical support email address the email bounces back to me.

It is very hard to choose the right optical disc device because there supported devices page hasn't been updated for 2 years.

I am trying to find a optical disc drive that can do it all under the "Recorders tab" that can write both CD's and DVD+ and -R's. Blu-ray would be nice but I don't think that exists yet "CDRWIN supporting blu-ray".

What do you think I should do or try next?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
As I noted above, I'd try the IDE Plextor 870A ... but there's no guarantee it will work (although I'd be REALLY surprised if it doesn't).

As for whether GoldenHawk is still in business -- clearly they are, as they just released a new version on 28 May.     I don't know why Jeff isn't answering his support e-mails  (GoldenHawk is essentially a one-man company run by Jeff Arnold, the author of CDRWin).     Perhaps he's on vacation :-)

I'd suggest you do one of two things:   (a)  Use the Asus CRW-5224A you have access to ... if all the boxes are checked, it will do every function that CDRWin supports;   or (2)  Use a different utility for your burns, using you nice new Plextor drive ... which is a excellent drive.

As I noted earlier, I've long since stopped using CDRWin on a regular basis -- although I do occasionally use it for some special-purpose copying and/or just to refresh my knowledge of cue sheets.    Haven't upgraded in a long time (~ 4 years) ... and don't see any features in the newest version that would tempt me.    It's a solid utility that simply does what it's designed to do, but has fallen behind the times in its User Interface and hasn't kept up with the latest optical drives (as you've obviously just found out).    I suspect that's simply a result of it being a one-man operation ... with more changes than one person can support.

Unless you have some specific functionality that you want to use in CDRWin, I'd use a more Windows-friendly package with your new Plextor drive.

As a matter of interest, what specific function(s) do you want to do with CDRWin that your current burning software won't do?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Well... I was reading online that CDRWIN and some very important information from here is that CDRWIN is a really POWERFUL disc backup utility. And according to dbrunton comment "Powerful disc backup utility that preserves the exact layout of the original disc including all subcode information. That would be the main reason.  Very few modern burning applications do that."

What are the other few burning applications that can do this method?

What are the TOP POWERFUL DISC BACKUP UTILITY/BURNING applications that are out? That are, if possible the same as CDRWIN? I'm looking for the "Powerful disc backup utility that preserves the exact layout of the original disc including all subcode information.

I'm trying to find all the features in CDRWIN in other applications.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
<I don't know why Jeff isn't answering his support e-mails  (GoldenHawk  is essentially a one-man company run by Jeff Arnold, the author of  CDRWin).     Perhaps he's on vacation :-)
>


The thing is when I try to send him a email through technical support, the email automatically bounces back to me, as in I don't think he is getting any messages, possibly there is something wrong with his email address? I don't know.

Is there another way to contact this Jeff Arnold? All I would like to ask him if he could recommend some optical disc drives (that are not discontinued, that are on the market today) that he would know that would work, and would support all of CDRWIN's functions as in the pictures you posted.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I sent him a note and it hasn't bounced back (yet).    I'll watch for either a bounce-back message or a reply & let you know what happens.

I still use CDRWin on the rare occasions when I want to copy an otherwise "uncopyable" CD ... discussion of the specifics of that is off-topic and not allowed on EE  (but it's very powerful in that regard).     As for getting an exact copy of CDs ... for data CDs you can use any of the well-know CD Cloning utilities  [CloneCD, Alcohol, etc.].    For bit-perfect copies of audio CDs, look at Exact Audio Copy (an excellent freeware utility -- but one that takes a bit of learning).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Thanks Gary!

Please let me know what happens if you hear from Jeff Arnold. By the way, did you use techsupport@goldenhawk.com as the email address? That is the one that I use and it kept bouncing back.

As for using Alcohol, I tried it a while ago, but it wouldn't copy a "uncopyable" CD, it came with a error message something like, um... "cannot copy copy-protected discs" or something like that.

I don't do this but if I need to copy something that isn't "uncopyable", is there a way to bypass this and still use Alcohol to copy it? Like CDRWIN would be able to do? Or would I be better off using CloneCD?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
My goal is to not only copy, but I would like to back discs up to .iso image file or .bin/.cue file and store them onto my hard drive, so I wouldn't have to worry about scratches and so on. CloneCD doesn't back up to .iso image file or .bin/.cue, it just makes a copy-to-copy pretty much.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I also store all of my discs as ISO images ... both CDs and DVDs.    I use WinImage to create these ISOs [http://www.winimage.com/winimage.htm ].   It's free to try for 30 days, so give it a whirl.    Works very well -- note the neither the documentation nor the program itself mentions "DVDs"  ... but it works just fine with DVDs and will make an ISO image just fine for any unprotected DVD  (i.e. program DVDs, etc.).

If you need images of protected data DVDs give Alcohol 120 a try.    For images of movie DVDs you'll first need to use a utility that removes the copy protection  ==> doing that is beyond the scope of what we can talk about on EE.


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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I was looking on ebay and I think I found the same drive that you have, the (PX-800A). Can you confirm that this is the same drive that you have?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Plextor-PX-800A-CD-DVD-RW-Internal-IDE-Disk-Drive-/350353148745?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item5192accb49
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
That's it -- I have the exact same drive (and it's an excellent drive).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I ordered it, it should be here sometime next week. I was just making sure that it is the same drive that you have.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Gary,

I was reading about Alcohol 120% and I'm a little bit confused. With Alcohol 120%, with the copy feature, I am able to copy, copy-protected discs as in ONLY music discs, PC game discs, and data discs. And that's it correct? When I tried to copy a movie using Alcohol 120% I got a error saying that it can't copy because it is copy protected. Is the reason why is,  the disc was a DVD movie and two it was copy-protected? If the disc wasn't a DVD movie it would of made the copy correct? What I am trying to say or ask is with Alcohol 120%, can I copy pretty much anything ACCEPT DVD movies?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Detailed discussion of copying copy protected material is not allowed on EE ... but I'll give you a general overview (just don't ask for details on "how") ...

Alcohol is designed to overcome discs that are written in a non-standard way using a variety of copy protection techniques.   Many of these are automatically identified by Alcohol;  others require the user to set some custom options before the disc can be either copied or emulated [Many of the copy protections can't actually be removed ... but Alcohol copies them in a way that allows an Alcohol virtual drive to emulate the copy protection -- so a program that's running from that drive "thinks" it's using the original, copy-protected disk.

DVDs are not protected by using non-standard structures on the disc, but by encrypting files using the CSS protection mechanisms ... and some other more-advanced encryption technologies.    The issues with copying DVDs are quite different than those for protected data and program discs.     Consequently there are an entirely different set of programs that are used for each of these two cases.    Alcohol is very popular with gamers -- and programs like DVDFab are very popular with movie collectors who want to digitize their DVDs onto media servers.

The answer to your last question is Yes, with a caveat.    You can pretty much copy anything EXCEPT DVD movies, but some of those copies will only run in an Alcohol virtual drive where Alcohol is emulating the appropriate copy protection.

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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Thank you for explaining.

<You can pretty much copy anything EXCEPT DVD movies,>

On Alcohol 120%'s website is says the following "Home users make backup copies of their game  CDs and movie DVDs*, allowing the  kids to treat multimedia disks roughly, without destroying their value."


It says "game CD's and movie DVDs". Well then why do I get that error message when I try to copy the movie DVD?


I don't want you or myself to break EE rules, but if you can explain why that would be great.


I downloaded the trial version of Alcohol 120% when I select the Copy Wizard at the bottom I select the Data-Type Analyzer, I get the following error message [x] Error detected...-> 0xFFFFFFF5. (Trying to copy an Audio CD)

 
Would you know by any chance what this error message is indicating?

Thanks again!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Note that the text where Alcohol says users can "... make backup copies of their game  CDs and movie DVDs ..."  has an asterisk by "DVDs".     It's difficult to find the footnote that describes what that asterisk means, but if you look carefully you can find it.    Here's what it says:

"...  Note: Alcohol 120% does not copy CSS-encrypted DVDs. You will need to use a DVD ripper like DVDDecrypter or a CSS decrypter/CSS remover like DVD Region Free along with Alcohol 120% to backup your DVDs. Alcohol 120% may be used to facilitate copying media in which you own the copyright or have obtained permission to copy from the copyright owner. If you are not the copyright owner or you have not obtained permission to copy from the copyright owner, you may be violating copyright laws and you may be subject to claims for damages and/or criminal penalties. "
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I see now.

I downloaded the trial version of Alcohol 120% when I select the Copy Wizard at the bottom I select the Data-Type Analyzer, I get the following error message [x] Error detected...-> 0xFFFFFFF5. (Trying to copy an Audio CD)

Would you know by any chance what this error message is indicating?

Just curious with CloneCD it can copy pretty much everything, regardless of the copy protection. Is there another program just like CloneCD by Slysoft? CDRWIN be one?

Thanks again for answering all these questions, I just find all of these programs interesting.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Gary,

I was looking around online for the same drive, can you confirm that this is the same drive that you have?
http://www.bluebonepc.com/catalog/detail.asp?id=DR-PL-PX-800A/SW

I have seen models with Plextor PX-800A/SW and PX-800A/SW-BL.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, that's the drive I have (I thought you'd already ordered it).

I've seen it referred to as a PX-800/SW,  PX-800/BL, and PX-800/SW-BL ... but they're all the same drive.    I think the difference is in which bezels it ships with (black, beige, or silver) ... but I'm not sure.     Mine as listed as a PX-800A/SW-BL  [Here's the link to the actual drive I purchased (from my invoice):  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249018 ]
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I did. I'm still waiting on the drive to arrive.

I was just window shopping online to find others who sell the PX-800A.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I got the drive. Well, I got the drive a couple of days ago, strangest thing, when I got the drive the first time I kept getting these read errors. What I mean is when I try playing a music CD ( music CD is a store bought) in the drive, WMP would say "disc might be dirty or damaged". So I tried in VLC same thing occurs. I tried using CDRWIN and I get error message " Error: Unable to read AUDIO sectors 3547 to 5373 on device 1:0:0 Unrecoverable hardware error (04h 00h 02h 04h 08h 03h).

They sent me a replacement drive and the exact thing happens again. I'm thinking two drives doing the same thing? Am I doing something wrong? I notice when I try to play a music CD, I'll here only about one second of the song and then I get an error message.

I tried a DVD movie, and the movie will start to stutter if I fast forward sometimes.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You either have a bad drive;  a bad cable;  or a defective IDE controller.    I'd guess a bad cable since you've had the problem with two different drives (and a defective IDE controller is less likely).    Although these are used drives ... if they haven't been refurbished they may have dirty optics.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I don't think I have a bad cable or IDE controller because I had another IDE optical drive installed before I install the PX-800A and the other drive worked fine. Same cable and IDE controller.

I called them where I bought the drive from, they had people test the drive before they sent it and it worked fine for them supposably.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Well, there are only three things involved:   the controller; the cable; and the drive.

Are you using an 80-wire cable or a 40-wire cable?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
40-wire cable.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Try an 80-wire cable ... the extra grounds may be what's needed for reliable signalling with the drive.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Try an 80-wire cable even if another IDE drive worked fine with a 40-wire cable?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
What cable are you using? 40-wire cable or 80-wire cable?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
An 80-wire  ==> I never use 40-wire cables these days.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I changed the 40-wire to a 80-wire and everything seems to be working now! I tried playing the exact audio disc in WMP and it played fine the same in CDRWIN!

However I have experienced "When recording a disc, I receive the error message "Write command failed... Read/Write error or bad medium detected". What does this mean?" quoted from cdrwin's website.

I have noticed when copy a disc or doing pretty much anything in cdrwin that "only" during the time in cdrwin, copying disc ect the computer gets a little sluggish. The mouse cursor gets a little sluggish and the sound as well in the volume control "boing" sound gets sluggish too.

I temporarily disabled things running in the background and it's still a bit sluggish.

Have you ever experienced this before?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I created a .cue sheet using cdrwin. I used Nero to burn the .cue sheet. When I am burning the image I get the sluggish again. However I took that burn CD and played in the player PX-800A, when it's playing the disc everything is fine no sluggish. I did notice that when Nero was burning the image it took 10 mins. It should have taken maybe 2 minutes.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I just noticed something in the device manager. Could this be why I'm noticing or having the sluggish?
Device-Manager.jpg
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Yes, the issues in Device Manager are almost certainly why the system's sluggish when using the drive.     It's reasonably certain that your system has reverted to PIO mode access for the optical drives.    There are many questions regarding this on EE -- just do a search for this to see how to resolve it.  ... here's a post where I detailed what you need to do:  http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Laptops_Notebooks/Q_21558521.html#14865462

However, that will resolve the PIO reversion issue, but not necessarily the issue with the IDE channels noted in your picture above.    I'd Uninstall those channels (right-click on each to select that);  then reboot and see if they are detected and properly installed.    Then apply the PIO reversion fix outlined in my post (note that's a harmeless registry edit -- you can do it and it won't hurt anything if that's not indeed the issue).


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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I have two optical disc drives (SATA & IDE) installed together. Could that be why the IDE channels are being shown in device manager? To add I am in AHCI Mode.

You're saying to uninstall those channels, can you say again which to uninstall? You can use the picture that I posted if you want to mark which to uninstall. I don't quite understand which ones you want me to uninstall.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Won't hurt to just uninstall all of them -- then reboot and see what's detected/reinstalled.

However -- that's not important IF the optical drive is on one of the channels that's "okay" ... i.e. not one with a yellow exclamation.     Right-click on each of the "good" IDE channels;  select Properties;  then click on the Advanced Settings tab.     See if your optical drive is shown on one of these channels -- and, if so, what the current transfer mode is (I suspect it's PIO).

Regardless of what you find above, do the registry modification I outlined in the post I linked to above (deleting all occurrences of MasterIdDataChecksum and SlaveIdDataChecksum) and then reboot.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I didn't try to uninstall them yet.

I went back into Device Manager and selected Properties and then clicked on the Advanced Settings tab and this is what I got.
Primary-IDE-Channel.jpg
Primary-IDE-Channel-Yellow-Excla.jpg
Secondary-IDE-Channel.jpg
Secondary-IDE-Channel-Yellow-Exc.jpg
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
As I said before, "... Regardless of what you find above, do the registry modification I outlined in the post I linked to above (deleting all occurrences of MasterIdDataChecksum and SlaveIdDataChecksum) and then reboot."
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I deleted all occurrences of MasterIdDataChecksum and SlaveIdDataChecksum and I'm still seeing the yellow exclamations in the device manager. There were a few MasterIdDataChecksum and only one SlaveIdDataChecksum to delete from.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Does it still show PIO?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I went into the registry and deleted the MasterIdDataChecksum and the SlaveIdDataChecksum. Once I rebooted I realized that I forgot to uninstall the devices in the device manager. I went back into the registry and couldn't find any MasterIdDataChecksum or SlaveIdDataChecksum to delete. So I went back into the device manager and uninstalled them. Once I rebooted I noticed no yellow exclamations showing.

This is what I see now.
Primary-IDE-Channel.jpg
Secondary-IDE-Channel.jpg
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Okay, on the first one change the Transfer Mode to DMA if available;  then reboot and check it again and see if the Current Transfer Mode changes to DMA.

If not, redo the registry modification; reboot; and check again.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I changed it to DMA if available and rebooted. The Current Transfer Mode: says "PI0 Mode". I re-did the registry modification again and rebooted and it sill says "PI0 Mode".

I noticed there was only one MasterIdDataChecksum to delete in the registry and no SlaveIdDataChecksum to delete.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
You need to check in your BIOS and see if there's a mode setting for the IDE channel.    Something is keeping the drive from operating in DMA mode -- once you figure out what, everything will work fine.    The PIO mode operation is definitely why it's operating sluggishly.

The registry chance I noted will force re-detection of the drive ... you can do it anytime to test any chance you may have made.    Be sure the "Transfer Mode" is set to "DMA if Available" -- you can change that (but you can't change "Current Transfer Mode" ... that's set on detection of the drive, which is what the registry mod forces).

By the way, Transfer Mode still shows "PIO Only" in the picture above -- did you change it??? !!
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
<By the way, Transfer Mode still shows "PIO Only" in the picture above -- did you change it??? !!>

If you're referring to the "Primary IDE Channel picture" in ID: 33016189 "Device 0" Transfer Mode is set to "DMA if available".
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
The picture you posted shows "PIO Only" for the Transfer mode setting in the primary channel.

If you've changed it to "DMA if Available", then re-do the registry modification;  reboot; and see what the "Current Transfer Mode" is after the reboot.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I went into the BIOS and looked around. I did notice one thing, under "Onboard PCI Device" I noticed that under "-Controller Mode" is was set to AHCI. I changed it to "IDE". Once it rebooted I went back into device manager and noticed that it doesn't have the "IDE Channels" listed now since I changed the "-Controller Mode" from AHCI to IDE.

I decided to try CDRWIN again to see if I got any sluggish, I didn't. Everything seemed to be going fine as it was copying the disc, no sluggish no nothing. When CDRWIN asked me to put a blank disc in to burn, it took about maybe five, ten seconds then I get the error message.

I noticed on the back of the blank disc, there is a little ring on the disc. It looks like CDRWIN burned a little bit then the write fails.
BIOS.JPG
Device-Manager-No-IDE-Listed.jpg
CDRWIN-Write-Error.jpg
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Put the controller mode back to AHCI.

Go into Device Manager and change the Transfer Mode for the primary channel, Device 0 to "DMA if Available"   (the one that says "PIO Only" in your last picture).

Do the registry mod & reboot.

Go back to Device Manager and see what the Current Transfer Mode is then.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I went back into the BIOS and changed the "-Controller Mode" from "IDE" back to "AHCI".

I went into the registry and there is no "MasterIdDataChecksum or SlaveIdDataChecksum" to delete from.

This is what I see now in the device manager.
AHCI-Primary-IDE-Channel.jpg
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Not sure what's keeping the drive in PIO mode -- but that's why it's so slow.

I'd try uninstalling the drive (not physically, but from Device Manager)  => and letting it be redetected and then see what mode it's in.   Try the registry mod again after it's detected and used -- that should result in at least one of the keys being re-generated.

By the way, this question is getting FAR off-topic :-)

... not sure what else I can contribute -- the issue is clear;  you simply need to do some experimentation to determine why it's not using DMA.     Try another IDE drive instead of the Plextor and see if it runs in DMA mode;  and try jumpering the Plex differently.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. By the way, instead of saying "PIO mode" what is it suppose to say instead? Is that what I am getting those write errors when using cdrwin? (04h 00h 02h 03h 0Ch 08h)? When I put the "-Controller Mode" from AHCI to IDE it wasn't slow, it just fails to write.

You're saying that "-Controller Mode" should be in AHCI no matter what?

By the way I have another optical disc drive (SATA) that drive wouldn't be effected by this right? What I mean like problems reading discs or writing them?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Ok. I tried another "IDE" optical drive. I did the registry mod and it's still showing up as only "PIO mode". Could I have a bad 80-wire cable? Or would this most likely be a problem in Windows?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
It's really hard to say just what's going on.    If you disable AHCI mode and the drive seems to work (except for the write errors) it may simply be a media incompatibility.    Try a different brand of CD-R blanks.     AHCI is a SATA mode -- so I'm surprised it has an impact on your IDE ports.    Are you SURE there aren't some other settings in the BIOS r.e. the IDE ports?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
<Try a different brand of CD-R blanks.>

I tried tokyo yuden and memorex brands.

<Are you SURE there aren't some other settings in the BIOS r.e. the IDE  ports?>

I'm pretty sure... here is the manual to the mobo. I could of missed something.

On the back of the "IDE" drive, the back jumper is set all the way to the right. Is that correct?



ip35-pro.pdf
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
Here's what is in the PC. Three 1TB hard drives "SATA" two optical disc drives "IDE" and "SATA". I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe something needs to be in some kind of order? I don't know, still thinking. ;)

Could the problem be I'm not running any "IDE" HDD?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
Is the Storage Controller in the Onboard PCI Devices section set to IDE?
(Page 2-19 of the manual)
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
It was set to IDE but then you told me to but it back to AHCI. First picture in ID: 33017241.

I was thinking what if I put the "OnChip SATA Device" to "IDE" and the Storage Controller in the Onboard PCI Device back to "IDE" could that possibly work?

Maybe having the "OnChip SATA Device" set to "AHCI" is causing the "Current Transfer Mode:" stuck in "PIO Mode"?

The only thing is if I put the "OnChip SATA Device" back to "IDE" I think it will blue screen because of the "AHCI" driver installed.

Would some kind of device work, as in a "IDE" to "USB" possibly work? Would running of the USB have enough power/speed? And could that change the "Current Transfer Mode:" from "PIO Mode" to "DMA"?
OnChip-SATA-Device.JPG
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
There are two different settings -- one is the mode for the SATA controller;  the other is the mode for the IDE controller.    The SATA controller can be AHCI ... but the storage controller should be IDE.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
In the BIOS, "OnChip SATA Device SATA Mode" is set to "AHCI".

Onboard PCI Device -Controller Mode is set to "IDE".

This is what the BIOS is now set at.

In the Device Manager, under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, I only see "Intel(R) ICH9R/DO/DH SATA AHCI Controller". There is no "Primary IDE Channel" "Secondary IDE Channel" "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" to select.
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I'm out of ideas as to what to try then.    It sounds like with those settings everything works (i.e. no "stuttering" on the drive -- which means it's almost certainly working in DMA mode as it should);  except for the write issues.     That could be (a) a problem with the drive;  (b) a media compatibility issue (unlikely if you've used Taiyo-Yuden, which is among the best media);  or (c) a compatibility issue with the drive and your system's IDE controller.

Do you have another system with an IDE controller you can try the drive in?    If so, try it (and CDRWin) there.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I'm running out if ideas to try as well. ;) I don't know anyone who has another system with an IDE controller, they all have SATA now.

I believe that you and I really put our heads together on this and as much I wanted to really use cdrwin, I don't think it's going to happen.

cdrwin may have just released a new version, but it doesn't seem to work well with a SATA system. I believe that cdrwin is a "dead" burning application with today's technology and newer software. I guess a lot of people don't seem to use cdrwin. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't want to seem like I'm re-asking the question but if you could, could you tell a software that would be equivalent to cdrwin?

I don't mean just for a certain thing to copy/burn, what I mean is....here.

Is there something out there that can do all of these and then some?

Information posted from http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm

Major Features of CDRWIN

    * Supports the recording of AUDIO, CDROM (Mode1), CDROM-XA (Mode2), CD-I, Mixed-Mode, and Multisession discs.

    * Unique CUE SHEET scripting language gives you 100% custom control over the disc layout. No two second gaps between tracks like other software!

    * Powerful disc backup utility that preserves the exact layout of the original disc including all subcode information.

    * ISO9660 disc mastering (with Joliet long filename support for Windows 95/98/NT).

    * Supports Karaoke CD+G discs (on compatible equipment).

    * Automatic MP3 file decoding... MP3 files can be recorded to an audio disc without converting them to WAV files first.

    * Supports CD-TEXT discs (on compatible equipment) and includes a graphical text editor.

    * Bootable CDROM support.

    * Only disc-at-once software that supports all CDROM types on the Philips/Kodak/HP family of CD recorders.

    * Supports disc UPC and track ISRC numbers (on most recorders).

    * Supports disc transporters/duplicators from Kodak and Discmatic for fast and unattended disc replication.


By the way, Thank you Gary for everything!!!
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
I agree CDRWin is an application whose time is largely past -- largely because of the simple lack of SATA drive support.     I don't know why Jeff didn't focus more on that ... but it's a "killer".

Most of the functions can be done with a combination of CloneCD, Alcohol 120, and Nero ... but nothing matches the detailed control you get with the Cue sheets -- and the ability to very finely manipulate the inter-track silence on audio discs is unique to CDRWin.

But except for the capabilities CDRWin has to back up some older otherwise-uncopyable CDs for a few gaming systems, the newer programs can essentially do all of the things in its feature list.
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I agree with you Gary.

Ok. For me, I really wouldn't need "detailed control" with the Cue sheets. If anything I would just burn them to disc and that's it. Nothing fancy you know.

What I did now is went back into the BIOS and set both "OnChip SATA Device" and the "Onboard PCI Device -Controller Mode" back to "AHCI". I disabled the only IDE device I had installed, (unplugged all cables from the device) and that was the PX-800A.

Since both are now in "AHCI" if I go to the Device Manager, I see
"Intel(R) ICH9R/DO/DH SATA AHCI Controller"
"Primary IDE Channel"
"Secondary IDE Channel"
"Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller"

Is that normal?

BTW, would some kind of device work, as in a "IDE" to "USB" possibly work? Would running off the USB have enough power/speed? And could that change the "Current Transfer Mode:" from "PIO Mode" to "DMA"?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
The only way to know what your particular system will do with various different settings is to try it.   It'd be interesting to see what the drive shows for operating mode with the settings you noted above (both set to AHCI).
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
What I meant is I have no "IDE" devices in the PC now. Everything is connected as "SATA". The HDD and the optical disc drive is "SATA", NO "IDE"devices connected.

I have the "OnChip SATA Device" set to "AHCI".

My question is, should I set the "Onboard PCI Device" -Controller Mode to "AHCI" or "IDE"?
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
The reason I asked in my last comment is because I can't remember if I had the Onboard PCI Device" -Controller Mode originally set to "AHCI" or "IDE".

Does it matter which mode I am in?
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Gary CaseRetiredCommented:
With most motherboards you'd want the SATA mode set to AHCI and the IDE controller set to IDE.

But this has been a strange board -- the reality is you can set it to whatever combination works best :-)
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TechSmartGuyAuthor Commented:
I agree with is a strange board. :-)

Ok. Well according to the manual (page.46) it ways the following "Controller Mode This item selects the mode for devices connected through eSATA1 ports". "Options: [IDE], [RAID], [AHCI]."

I'm not using any eSATA1 ports. No eSATA altogether, if anything external just USB 2.0.

So in the case would it be best for "IDE" or "AHCI"?

I'm not quite sure, that's why I'm asking. I don't want to mess anything up. Your help is very much appreciated!
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