Migrating sbs 2000 mailboxes to sbs 2008

HBPROCK
HBPROCK used Ask the Experts™
on
Hi I have done many sbs 2008 installs now and I found in most cases its easier to do a new install rarther than a swing migration as the couple of swing migrations i have done have come up with issues later. This paticular install im about to do is a bit more compliated as they have a very conjested Active directory and exchange with 100's of distrabution groups etc. They currently have sbs 2000 and im putting in sbs2008. There is genrally no direct migration patch to 2008 although there is Microsoft Article of how to upgrade fromm 200 to 2008. In this Article it mentions you have to manually export and import mailboxes and public folders in the form of PST's which still seems like alot of work and alot of issues that may occur. I

Does anyone know of a method to do a swing migration but also copy over the information store and all its structure to the new esxchange 2007 on sbs2008. I know its moving from 32bit to 64bit version but I would of thought there would be some sort of tool out there to make it easier to upgrade SBS servers.  Any help and advice will be much apreciated as this current install im about to do dont want any down time and Im trying to tread very carefully and cover every angle.

Many thanks HBP
Comment
Watch Question

Do more with

Expert Office
EXPERT OFFICE® is a registered trademark of EXPERTS EXCHANGE®
Distinguished Expert 2018
Commented:
If I read your reply properly, I think you are referrring to *any* migration as a "swing" migration because it retains the data. This is *NOT* the case!!!
There are three paths:
1) A new install. No retention of data.
2) A *standard* migration. This is what MS documents nd invovles both servers being active on the network at the same time and transferrring of roles, data, etc, in an orderly fashion. Perfectly acceptable solution, but because both machines arle always active, if a problem *does* occur, there is no backing out. This appears to be the migrations you've done and what you are asking about.
3) A "swing" migration is a very specific type of migration that gets its name because of how it works. The new server is configured primarily offline and then you "swing" your entire network to the new server when you are ready. It is, to be blunt, a much better solution than the official MS one, but also more complex because of how much is done offline. Since the original server is left untouched though, it provides a better "back out" plan in case something goes wrong and is overall less error-prone. But the setup, documentation, and planning is expensive.
In particular, because 2000 to 2008 is not directly supported by MS, and the "community" document on the MS site still uses a 2003 server as an intermediary, it is even more error-prone. I strongly recommend a true *swing* migration here.  www.swingmigration.com  His documentation covers Exchange as well.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
<-- agrees with cgaliher on  www.swingmigration.com  

Commented:
Pls check the below link

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=b86e2af5-782b-4001-bf86-d872028a4619

There is one more website you need to visit reguraly i.e. http://blogs.technet.com/b/sbs

Regards,
Chandar Singh
Introduction to R

R is considered the predominant language for data scientist and statisticians. Learn how to use R for your own data science projects.

Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010
Commented:
The easiest option is to export all the mailboxes using exmerge, as per my article here: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Software/Server_Software/Email_Servers/Exchange/A_2710-Export-mailboxes-using-Exmerge-and-Exchange-2003.html

Backup all your user data.

Remove Exchange from SBS2000

Install a "temporary" Windows 2003 server, this can be a virtual machine or a low spec workstation, it's only temporary.

Make the new 2003 server a domain controller and transfer the FSMO roles.
DCPROMO the SBS2003 server so it is no longer a domain controller and remove it from the domain.

Then follow my guide here (missing out the Exchange parts) for adding a SBS2008 server to a Windows 2003 domain: http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems/Server/SBS_Small_Business_Server/A_2465-Migrate-Windows-2003-with-Exchange-to-Small-Business-Server-2008.html

Then import the PST's you exported earlier in to Exchange 2007 as per my guide here: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Software/Server_Software/Email_Servers/Exchange/A_2709-Importing-PST-files-in-to-Exchange-2010.html
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
demazter - that's swing migration without naming it :-)

They have a picture of it.
http://www.sbsmigration.com/pages/96/
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
it's a swing migration without paying for all the guide :)

The steps above are the way I would/have done it and I have never experienced any problems with it.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
We'll call it

De MazTer Migration.
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
:)
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
Actually, to be fair (and I won't get into details), transferring FSMO roles has an impact on the original server. The swing migration method involves a process of joining, syncing, then *seizing* roles in an olffline state to keep the source server as close to pristine as possible until the final swing over.
Those are the basics (which the website publicly shares, so I don't think I've crossed the line into giving away trade secrets, etc) but an actual kit is extremely thorough, very detailed, and comes with support. The guy who writes it, Jeff Middleton, is an SBS MVP and my interactions with him have all been very positive. He is extremely intelligent, knows more about migrating OS's (SBS and otherwise) than anybody else I've ever talked with, and he's just plain a nice guy on top of all that! There is a reason I recommend this method, and it all revolves around his expertise in the area....it truly is second to none.
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
Yes your right it does have an impact, asside from the fact that if you don't uninstall Exchange from the SBS2000 server then your "clone" will need to be cleared up prior to Exchange 2007 from SBS2008 otherwise it gets very messy.

Transfering the FSMO roles to another server that you have already confirmed working is not a particularly dangerous task.  But by the time you get to this stage anything that could have gone wrong would have gon wrong so there is little danger in performing this task.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
So it boils down to this.

> if you are up for it - do a test migration using De Mazter migration method above
http:#33122866

Otherwise if you want more documentation pictures - assured support (Jeff Middleton gives 1 support case with the package I think...) then go for this.
http://www.sbsmigration.com/
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
I guess we will have to wait for customer to comment on this case.

HBPROCK - let us know your thoughts.
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
And....as long as I'm in my "to be fair" mode, Jeff's option is certainly not the only one. I've read DeMazter's guide and it does a very good job of fleshing out the more traditional MS method, so if you choose to go that route, it is definitely worth following.
As I'm sure you gathered, I am more partial ot the "disconnect and seize" method though, and even in that arena, swingmigration is not the only game in town. Another MVP who I've come to respect a great deal, Amy Babinchak, wrote up a review on another documented process, the "zero down time migration" that uses a similar methodology. Her write-up is here:
http://securesmb.harborcomputerservices.net/?p=139
Now, I've never read Karl's book, so it never hits my "recommended" methoid simply because I only recommend processes I've used myself. But Since we have decided to delve into the depths of all methos possible, it is certainly worth mentioning that this option is also out there, again thoroughly documented, and would certainly not be a *bad* bet. I've just had a positive experience with Jeff's method consistently, so I haven't popped the cash to review Karl's documentation and expand my knowledge.
Distinguished Expert 2018

Commented:
Well, since my last comment was fairly long, I had actually written and hit send before demazter's last. So just to clarify, I was trying to point out one of many distinctions between a standard "online and transfer" method that MS and DeMazter's guide uses, and the offline method that Swing and apparently ZDTM uses. Again, I don't want to cross the line of giving away information that others have spent time developing, documenting, and copywriting. After all *I* didn't spend all that time, so it isn't mine to give away.
But suffice it to say there is a significant difference between the two processes, so I think this:
Transfering the FSMO roles to another server that you have already confirmed working is not a particularly dangerous task.  But by the time you get to this stage anything that could have gone wrong would have gon wrong so there is little danger in performing this task.
Is probably understating the differences a bit. This is by no means a criticism of Demazter. He's done a great job with his article and it is most certainly a valid method. I just think some people don't realize the extent of the differences in methods until they've tried them both and have enough understanding of the inner-workings of AD to *appreciate* them both. So I don't think anybody was being malicious here, I just think there may be a misunderstanding on what a "swing" is and how completely different the methodology is. I want to try and make it clear that the differentiation is there, and real, without breaking anybody else's documentation. Both are valid approaches though.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
Good suggestions cgaliher.
I am going to save this ticket in my knowledge base on sBS Migrations :-)

http://networkmigrationworkbook.com/
I dont have the book and that link or any other links do not point to anything about what it is ?

Swing migration atleast gives you a picture :-)

Author

Commented:
Hi guys thanks for all you comments. cgaliher I came accross that site eailier it does look like the way to go. Just wasn't sure how it went about copying the mail accross. As commented above if using exmerge to copy all the mailboxes accross, surely on the new sbs2008 server i will have to manually create all the mailboxes and then individually import all the pst's? or have i missed something there.
demazter: as part of you guide above you mentioned you need to put an temp 2003 server in but then need to DCPromo the SBS2003 server. Is that a typo or should the temp server be a 2003 SBS as im moving from sbs 2000 to 2008.
Quote "Make the new 2003 server a domain controller and transfer the FSMO roles.
DCPROMO the SBS2003 server so it is no longer a domain controller and remove it from the domain"

Thanks
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
We are in agreement cgaliher :)

But the only place that the zero downtime is effective is when migrating (or transitioning) to a product that does not support direct migration.

Migrating from SBS2003 > SBS2008 can be done with zero downtime all by itself, no tools needed :)

Tools are there, they can be used if you want to spend cash on them, I have never needed to so don't intend to spend the money :)
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
lets call it DMMG for SBS from now onwards :-)

I am sure there will be a

DMMG for Windows
DMMG for Exchange
**there is a DMMG for SBS :-)
DMMG for Blackberry
DMMG for Trendmicro WFBS (I might actually need that...)
 
De Mazter Migration Guide
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
>>demazter: as part of you guide above you mentioned you need to put an temp 2003 server in but then need to DCPromo the SBS2003 server. Is that a typo or should the temp server be a 2003 SBS as im moving from sbs 2000 to 2008

If you are refering to the DCPROMO the SBS2003 section then yes this was a typo, it should be SBS2000 the rest is correct.

If you are refering to the new 2003 server then this wasn't a typo, this is the "temporary Windows 2003" server.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
Hey guys
check out this one too

Official Microsot SBS 2000 -> 2008 migration guide
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=b86e2af5-782b-4001-bf86-d872028a4619

This is SBS 2000 -> SBS 2008 migration with a intermediary windows 2008 server.

Primarily it tries to setup a replication between SBS 2000 and Windows 2008 using this.
Repadmin /syncall  <FQDN of the windows 2008 server>

Then transfer Roles

then move mailboxes as PST's

Then rest of the clean-up job.

===
I really want to thank cgaliher and demazter as this thread is shaping-up to be the definitive guide to all other guides of SBS migrations

More important we have a comparison of various migration process and good idea on what actually happens under the hood.
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
>>This is SBS 2000 -> SBS 2008 migration with a intermediary windows 2008 server.

Primarily it tries to setup a replication between SBS 2000 and Windows 2008 using this.
Repadmin /syncall  <FQDN of the windows 2008 server>

Yes, the same as the process I was refering to ealrier but using a Windows 2003 server instead
This just purely forces replication, it can be done in either Windows 2008 or 2003, the reason I use 2003 is because the resource requirements are less and you can easily use a VM on a workstation as a "temporary" stop gap.

I guess it depends on your preferences really.

You can either seize the roles or do it naturally, at the end of the day IF there was going to be problems, it would be before the transfer/seizing the roles occurs.  So once you get to this stage you have exported your Exchange stores, created a second domain controller (so you have all your user/groups/computer/security information) there is little else that can go wrong that you cannot recover from failry easily.  After all you can't lose your data (you have just exported it all) and your user information is safe.

So if it all went wrong, personally I wouldn't be backing out to the SBS2000 server I would be moving forward with my Windows 2003 server that now has all my user/groups/computer/security information in it.

Author

Commented:
Yes many thanks to all you comments on here there is alot of usefull information building up. demazter: On your guide when you have copied all the mailboxes accross using the exmerge does this also do the public folders and all the permissions on them?. Also at this point I would be quite worried about unistalling exchnage off my live server as I asume at theat point there would be no way off going back.

They way I was thinking of doing things and tell me if this is not the way, would be to go to site and clone the server using which ever prefered method. Put that image onto a temp server letting the cusotmer continue running live but make sure they make no changes to AD and exchange at this point. THen peform the migration method as documented. Once happy thst the new SBS server had took on all the roles etc and tested the mail has been exported sucsessfully. Then copy the mailboxes off the live server and all the data etc and then just turn off as I have already demoted the clone server. This way if anything goes wrong and can restore the image and at worst re-install 2008 and start again.

The only other thing Im unsure about as well is everytime I have done a migration I have always imported manually a PST 1 at time, is there an quicker way of impoting all the PST,s back into the new information store on the exchange 2007. demazter: I read your article but does this only apply to exchange 2010 and not 2007?
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
>>demazter: On your guide when you have copied all the mailboxes accross using the exmerge does this also do the public folders and all the permissions on them?. Also at this point I would be quite worried about unistalling exchnage off my live server as I asume at theat point there would be no way off going back.

You would need to use outlook to export the Public Folders, this cannot be done with Exmerge.  And if it became really stuck, re-installing Exchange on the SBS server is always an option.
Just remember you cannot run DCPROMO on a server that has Exchange installed which is why you need to remove Exchange before you run DCPROMO to remove the SBS server from the domain.

>>Put that image onto a temp server letting the cusotmer continue running live but make sure they make no changes to AD and exchange at this point.
I seriously would recommend against this method.  If you are cloning before doing the migration then the "original" server needs to be unused, otherwise there is little point in this method.

>>Then copy the mailboxes off the live server and all the data etc and then just turn off as I have already demoted the clone server
You would still need to export the mail/public folders, you cannot simply copy the stores.

The steps I have provided above do work.  I have used them many times in real life and about 8 times whilst writing the quides.

>>The only other thing Im unsure about as well is everytime I have done a migration I have always imported manually a PST 1 at time, is there an quicker way of impoting all the PST,s back into the new information store on the exchange 2007. demazter: I read your article but does this only apply to exchange 2010 and not 2007?

Exmerge will allow you to export all mailboxes (there is a 2GB limitation which is covered in my article) you can then re-import them all at the same time following my article.  The article is valid for 2007 and 2010 the process is the same.
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
Some thoughts.

a) It might be a good idea to do a P2V on your SBS 2000 - and test it before you perform an actual migration.
Convert it from physical -> virtual.

vmware has a tool.
Standalone server tool is free
http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/get.html

You can test this on vmware ESXi open source
http://downloads.vmware.com/d/info/datacenter_downloads/vmware_esxi/4#open_source

i am going to download and test this too

b) Multiple mailbox import.
I figure you can do this using powershell. Havent tested this.
Ther's a link here if you want to try.

http://knowthenetwork.com/blog/2009/07/using-powershell-to-import-multiple-pst-files-into-exchange-2007/

Author

Commented:
demazter: Many thanks for you comments. The only reason of cloning is so the cusotmer can continue to run there apllications and as a failsafe if the migration fails can start it agin And as long as they make no changes to AD etc then all should be then same. If then we just export the mail then turn the live server off the new server can just be switched on and the PC's can continue to run.
 There public folder store is over 50 mb also with alot of folders within with lots of permissions. By importing and exporting are all the permissions then lost?
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
Public folder permissions can be exported with PFDavAdmin: http://www.msexchange.org/articles/PFDavAdmin-tool-Part1.html

I still think the cloning idea is a risk.  And I wouldn't do it.  if you want to "test" it then yes, but don't do it with the live migration.
There is no reason why the users cannot continue to use the SBS2000 server once Exchange has been removed whilst you work on the 2003 server.  But the SBS2000 server cannot be a domain controller if you want to install SBS2008 into the same domain.  I have tried check out my blog here: http://demazter.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/migrate-windows-2000-to-small-business-server-2008/

Author

Commented:
Thanks I do see your point. So just to sumarise then to make sure that I dont this proccess 100% correctly Demazter Do you have a full migration guide that im best following or im a best purchasing the guide mentioned in the first post. I have done migrations before but following bits of differnt guides and often in differen't ways and this cusotmer does not want any down time so would like to do it the most effecicent way and in a way that is tried and tested.
Awarded 2009
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
The steps I provided above will give you what you need.
There is no real guide for migrating from SBS2000 to SBS2008 it is purely transitional.

Once you have the Windows 2003 Server as a domain controller and you have removed Exchange (after exporting all the mail) and DCPROMO'd the SBS2000 server follow my guide on migrating Windows 2003 to SBS2008.

Author

Commented:
Thanks to everyones comments and sugestions on here they are all very good sugestions.

Thanks demazter I will follow you guide in a test enviroment and see how I get on.

Once again thanks for all you comments!!

HBP

Author

Commented:
Just completed a 2003 SBS to 2011 SBS migration and everything is working fine

Old SBS was called SBSSEERVER
New SBS uis called SBS2011

We have setup a CNAME in DNS to point SBSSERVER to SBS2011 which works fine with Windows 7 machines, but this will not work with XP Client which complain of a duplicate name

Any Idea's on this one.

Thanks

Do more with

Expert Office
Submit tech questions to Ask the Experts™ at any time to receive solutions, advice, and new ideas from leading industry professionals.

Start 7-Day Free Trial