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Posted on 2010-08-27
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I am setting up an email notification on SecondCopy using smtp.gmail.com using standard SMTP authentication, the site has a BT Internet adsl line. It does not work as it says I need TLS which SecondCopy does not have. If I use the same setup  using the same username and password and SMTP server it works on my computer on my home internet connection. There are no restrictions on the office network. Both computers are WinXP Pro.

Is there anyway I can get around this or resolve this issue?
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Question by:mail2clk
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by:kemi67
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gmail doesn't use standard SMTP autthentication, because it uses the port 465 insted of port 25. I don't know SecondCopy and if you can specify an alternative smtp port; i have donwloaded a manual of a backup program named SecondCopy, and it explains how to set up STMP port at page 25

kemi67
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by:BLangers
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gmail requires TLS or SSL (secure SMTP) for outgoing mail. There is no way around that. You can use your ISP's SMTP server to relay mail over if you need to use plain SMTP on port 25
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Daniel McAllister earned 500 total points
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Let's be clear about something here:
  GMAIL is an e-mail service from Google. If you're using GMAIL, then Google is hosting your mail
  QMAIL is a mail hosting package used on Linux systems -- and is the focus of THIS ZONE!

====
QMAIL is completely configurable and can listen on any number of ports. For each port:
 - It can require (or NOT require) the use of SSL/TLS (allowing just one or the other security protocol, allowing either, or allowing neither!)
 - It can require (or not require) the use of AUTHENTICATION (username/password)
 - It can also configure (again, potentially different for each port) what kind of SPAM or RELAY controls you might want to allow (or deny).

Again, to be clear, each "set" of controls can be setup independently on each port.

For example, my QMail servers (most of whom are built from the QMail Toaster repositories):
 - Listens on port 25, allows unauth'ed and insecure connections, denies ALL RELAY attempts, and uses our MAXIMUM level of SPAM control (spamassassin, spamdyke, RBL's, DKIM, SPF, etc.)
 - ALSO listens on port 587, where it allows ONLY authenticated connections, ALLOWS RELAY attempts, and ALLOWS (but does not REQUIRE) either SSL or TLS connections. There is very little SPAM checking on this port (spamdyke alone -- no SPF, no DKIM, no spamassassin)
 - Finally, it ALSO listens on port 465 -- where we REQUIRE SSL or TLS connections, as well as REQUIRING AUTHENTICATION. Like port 587, RELAYing is allowed, and there are minimal SPAM checks.

   BTW: A "RELAY" attempt is when mail comes in that is directed to a domain NOT on that server -- like a user sending a message to an outside domain.... or a SPAMmer trying to use your system to send out LOTS of SPAM.

When I configure users' client systems, I tell INTERNAL users to use port 587 (with AUTH, but without SSL/TLS) for their SMTP, and I tell EXTERNAL (outside our firewall -- home or laptop users) to use port 465 (with AUTH -AND- with SSL/TLS enabled).

This leaves port 25 to the "world" for use... e.g.: all inbound messages (from the world) go through port 25 -- which has the highest level of SPAM control on it.... in fact, because we use SPF in an enforcing mode, our "outside" users cannot send mail through port 25 because their SPF records won't pass.

Meanwhile, when I have an internal user reporting a problem, I can peruse the port 587 logs and not be overwhelmed with all the crap coming in on port 25... and similarly, when I have a laptop or home user experiencing a problem, I can jump right to the port 465 log file to see what the issue might be... (simply amazing to me the number of people who think "bob@aol" should be automagically turned into "bob123@aol.com" by the system.... because it should "just know"... somehow.... I guess using the "mind reading" capability QMail is supposed to have...)

=====

Sigh.... but since the original question is about GMAIL (the Google Service), I think that it would behoove me to say something about that service too!

Like my configurations for QMAIL, GMAIL is not stupid enough to allow un-AUTHed SMTP connections (even from users) over an un-encrypted channel. This is called being an OPEN RELAY, and will usually get your host BLOCKED by every major (and 90% of minor) e-mail providers in less than 24-hours. Suffice it to say, GMAIL is NOT an open relay!

If you don't mind getting your GMAIL account hacked on a bi-monthly (or so) basis, you are (surprisingly) free to access your GMAIL account using standard POP or standard IMAP (really, though -- save yourself some headache and get your mail using POP or IMAP over SSL! That's port 993 or 995 respectively).

SO... when you configure your SecondCopy e-mail notifications, you need to do THREE things:
 1) Point it to SMTP.GMAIL.COM using either port 587 or 465
 2) Tell it to use AUTHENTICATION (a username/password)
 3) Tell it to use SSL (or TLS)... in the case of e-mail, they are synonymous.

It is possible that port 587 will not REQUIRE SSL/TLS... that's up to GMAIL. But if you cannot use AUTH and use a port different from 25, then you cannot use GMAIL servers to send your notifications.

Send complaints about any missing options to SecondCopy -- not Google... they're just doing what is an industry standard practice in a reasonable attempt to reduce SPAM.

Good Luck -- and in the future, please try not to confuse the letter G (GMAIL) with the letter Q (QMAIL).

Best Regards,



Dan
IT4SOHO

 -- a QMAIL expert, not a GMAIL expert --
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Author Closing Comment

by:mail2clk
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Thanks for the explanation. I used a free GMX email account which just uses normal smtp authentication and it works.
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