PHP Website framework/templates

To me you are mixing up the presentation and database parts of web site development.  One of the Joomla newsletters refered to a basic template for creating Joomla websites.  I don't use Joomla but I borrowed that and have used it with many variations to create two and three column layouts with floats.  But the database with the business rules needs to be separated from the display.  Two websites with similar appearances can have very different database requirements.

I've used Drupal alot and really like it. It has a very large learning curve and takes alot of modules to get stuff done. But, it's really good at letting you put PHP wherever you need to in order to make it work right.

>> >> I am well experienced with PHP development and want to create websites from scratch for many scenarios.

>> Argues for Zend, followed by the CMS platforms.
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Actually I would argue conversely.  Using a CMS platform yields access to a wealth of ready made front end templates, which is exactly the skill set that he lacks.  Choosing a PHP only platform like Zend would be a good choice only if you were working with a graphic designer.

>>> Drupal and Joomla are aimed more at a knowledgeable developer

Yes, exactly!  They are aimed at a more knowledgeable developer, not at end users.  As a developer I'm prepared to tackle the learning curve, for sure.  But I know that the average small business person isn't.

@davesgonebananas

Quote me fully or not at all :)

I was trying to make the overall point that if you are just creating applications (and the front end is not an issue/someone else will do it) then working with Zend might be the better choice as you are not locked into any pre-conceived notions of what happens where.  But if you just want to deploy a complete (front and backend wise) site rapidly, then use a CMS and learn to live/love the way it wants things done.