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tell me about i/p address.

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Last Modified: 2013-11-16
I know a forum that violently states that someone can not have more than one user name. They said all they have to do is check i/p address.

Can moderators of such forums check i/p address?
how?
or is that just a way to make people obey the rule?

I saw a forum and a "new" member joined at 5:15 pm on Nov. 8th. Within minutes they posted a very rude and slanderous comment on a thread. Then they went to the chat section and another user on the forum (who was a long time member), told the new member (who had a user name never used on that site before) "let me send you a PM (private message) or e-mail (whatever the forum allows).

I think the "new member" had to be known by the non new member or there would not have been this "exchange of messages" off the forum.

If I joined EE with the user name "ketchupman" and this board did allow other users to contact each other off the forum, and within 5-10 minutes of my joining as ketchupman, I don't think another long time member would be able to be approached by me for private messages or e-mails.

This other forum requires new members to have been a member based on a minimum criteria and only the long time member could have initiated the off site message to the new member. I think the new member had more than one user name. I think the incriminating evidence is the new member called the previous poster "crazy". That is a strong word to someone you do not know. I think the person who posted before that was a long time member. And they, themselves, joined again with the "new" user name and called themselves "crazy". They seem the only party who would have called a stranger and a long time member of a forum "crazy" when they, the one calling names is a new member for maybe 20 minutes.

I think the moderator is bluffing about i/p addresses.

Do public e-mail addresses like Yahoo and Hotmail and Gmail show a different i/p address than say a user of OE?

Some i/p's are contained in a small area around a city, like a cable TV company that offers cable modem service.

So, if a person used the same computer, but at the same time with two different user names then someone "could" trace the two user names to the same person-computer?

What if the person used different user names but was never logged into the website using both user names at the same time? That should make the two users different persons. But, if the i/p addresses are tracable to the same ISP, then someone could connect the dots, from user X and user Y being in the same city because they have the same i/p address (not the entirer address but the beginning that can identify the ISP.

Nothing scamming or shady going on, just new members bashing others and the ones being bashed need a way to get help on the forum without association of their current user name with a new one. If both can be traced to the same city, ISP or computer, though they never log in at the same time with both user names then they have no options.

Tell me everything about I/p addresses and how moderators can trace them.

I think there is a place on my own computer where I can see my own i/p address. I have Windows Vista.
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Commented:
If you ever change you public ip, the admin has no way to know you.

..........what do you mean? log off and log back on with the same computer?

My ISP serves a small area. This particular forum is worldwide, so two users in my city, (same ISP) would be seen as suspicious.

What e-mail addresses get around this?
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Commented:
hotmail actually shows the time "3 hours" from where I am because the origin is at Microsoft in the western time zone.

a message might arrive in my box at 12 noon but the time shows as 9am PST.
Jon BrelieSystem Architect
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Commented:
Two users on the same ISP would not show the same IP address.  Two users in the same building, using the same internet connection using a device to NAT to a local LAN would.

Connections to a website can usually be traced back to the original IP unless the user is using a proxy service.  Email from Gmail or Yahoo can ALSO be traced back to origin IP addresses, but these addresses are Google and Yahoo's, NOT the address of the user logging into these services.
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Commented:
If John Doe was in Any City, USA.
And he joined a forum with two user names, and his two e-mail adresses were yahoo or gmail, then no one could know that him logging in and out (and never using the same user name at the same time) was coming from the same house in that city, or even the same ISP within that city?

This particular forum would very unlikely have two members from the same city.

If one person using different user names, e-mail addresses (and even different computers) in the same house,

>>> can be detected as being in the same city under the same ISP <<<
though different i/p addresses, then John Doe may not be as anonymous as needed to avoid personal verbal attacks and other inappropriate behavior bordering on slander.

John Doe just wants to ask questions, get advice and stop being harrassed by others who recognize his old user name. He does not want his new user name to be able to be traced to the same ISP or city.

Adding points.
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I forgot to mention, that I would log out and shutdown my computer, before booting up again and signing in with the other user name = different i/p addresses.

If they can still link me under those circumstance, then they must have a way to trace an e-mail address (because you have to give that to sign up)
and link John Doe (user name #1) with John Doe (user name #2) as being in the same city, using the same ISP.

It is close to zero % that there are two members from my city on this forum. If I can not be anonymous by shutdown, reboot, and login with a different user name, then they must be able to trace me, regardless of e-mail addresses, to my city and my ISP.  And they knowing they do not have two members in my city = caught red handed.

The site has moderators and administrators.
Nothing bad, just harrasment to one member by other members, and the mods. are tolerating too much.

If Yahoo or gmail address lets me use different user names on different bootups of my system, then good.

Am I misunderstanding your latest comment?

I looked into proxy's before and did not pursue it. It looked complicated.
Jon BrelieSystem Architect
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Commented:
Doesn't matter.  Your IP address is assigned to your internet connection.  Your IP may occasionally change if you have DHCP from your ISP, but you have no control over when or if it does.

Essentially there IS record of your two different users logging in from the same IP address.
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Commented:
This particular forum allows anoymous persons to look around and do research, etc. you just can not post a question or answer a question.

I doubt the administrators would go as far as linking two user names to the same person, despite one using the forum on Monday and the other waiting until Saturday.
They do not have two members in my city, so I'm stuck.

Jon BrelieSystem Architect
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Commented:
www.hidemyass.com would do what you are asking.
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Commented:
Ok, appropriately named site.

I should have signed up on this forum with a different user name than I used on another forum. Then others on the previous site would not know who I was on the new site. Once one or two recognized my user name is was "bashing time". When you are a male with dozens of women around, and bashing starts, it can get ugly for the bashee.

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hbear:

ok please explain "external" IP address.

My situation would be:
I have one computer.
I have two user names.
I have cable modem internet service which is ON 24 hours a day, not the computer but the modem.
I have two different e-mail addresses.
I would use one user name on Monday for example, and not use the other user name until a few days later.

This would be between reboots.

Does the fact that my cable modem is always on, an issue here?

Should I unplug it, which effectively gives me NO i/p address, until I plug it back in and boot up, and at that, point my previous i/p address and my new one are not the same?

I have looked at my i/p address and many of the first numbers or letters in the address are common to all users in my city. I'm not with AOL or some regional ISP. My ISP is restricted to my county.

The issue is there are no two users on this forum in my city. My city has it's own ISP. If they can trace two DIFFERENT people to the same city, they could suspect these two users to both be me, even if they are actually two people.

If I use my two user names in a discreet way, different ages, different style to asking questions, I doubt the matter would go to the administrators. Other users would clearly make some comment that "oh, Joe, sounds like Mike in a way" This type of comment could be monitored and I log off and never user the 2nd user name again. So, if some one else's comments caused the administrators to want to investigate the two users, by then, I'd be logged off and have no i/p address.

I'll wait for your reply.
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Commented:
thanks
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Long post, but I will try to explain and some of this may have already been stated.

There are "public" and "private" IP addresses.  "Private" addresses are defined in RCF 1918.  Public IP addresses are everything that is not private.

Now public IP addresses are allocated to ISP and some large corporations.  ISP's can sub-allocate public IP address to corporations that do not qualify to get an allocation directly from ARIN or your regions "keeper of IP Addresses".   Since IP addresses are allocated to an ISP in blocks (12.0.0.0/8 is one block allocated to AT&T and 57.0.0.0/8 is allocated to SITA) all customers that may use a specific ISP will typically be in the same IP address range.  

However, this is not always true as some ISP's may by services from other ISP's.  Example:  Earthlink buys and resells services from various ISP in different cities.  So although you and I may both have Earthlink, if you live in Atlanta, GA and I live in Los Angles, CA  and you have cable and I have DSL are real ISP services may actually be provided by two totally different companies and so our IP addresses would come from two totally different blocks.

Most home and small business accounts do not include a static IP address.  That means you do not have a specific IP address allocated to you.  You get a different IP address assigned to you based on your ISP policies.  Some ISP's will give you a new IP address each time you "connect."  The definition of "connect" is based on your Internet connection: ADSL vs. Cable, vs. dial-up.   Now you have cable so the easiest way is to power your cable modem down and back up.  

Some ISP will offer static IP addresses as an option, and charge you extra for it.  That way you have the same IP address all of the time.  This is typically done for small businesses that host server or some home users that connect to their work office using special VPN's that require a fixed IP address for security reasons.

Now, as for forums that do not allow a single person to have multiple accounts.  If you do not have a static IP address or access the site from different locations (home vs. work) they may not be able to tell that it is the same person with different accounts.  I know in EE I have participated in questions where two accounts were used to update the same question.  One was the persons personal account and one was an account that his employer paid for.
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Nothing even bordering on illegal, a surrogacy forum where a member was verbally harrassed and slandered.

One of my questions is the fact that this specific web forum does not have two members from my city-county.
So, if I have an account and user name and my Uncle, for instance, joined and he had a user name, this website might conclude that my Uncle and I are the "same person".

If turning off my computer and turning off my cable modem, does not change the ISP identification that could be determined by the site administrators.
Then turning on my cable modem and booting my computer a week later does not make my 2nd user name anonymous, because it's still the same ISP.
UNLESS the adminstrators of the site can not identify ISP's.

This site is not owned by any corporation. I was verbally harrassed and slandered by some members who got suspended, and I desire to rejoin with a new user name. If that still gives the administrators my ISP, then they will connect dots and conclude that I am no a new user in a different county or state but the same user that was subjected to bashing before.

If there were 5 users of this site in my city-county, I'd have no issues, rebooting. I am the only user on that forum in my city-county, so I need to "appear" to be a user from another ISP.

I need a 2nd user name that can not be traced to my ISP.
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I know the first part(s) of the IP address is the same for everyone in my city.
If I am on a server, etc. with 50 other users, then we each have our unique i/p address when we are all booted up, right?

I can unplug my cable modem but the signal from the ISP is still there, 24/7.

Pretending to be some little ole lady 5 miles across town is no good. That forum does not have 2 users from my area. So, if a 2nd user joined from my area (city-county) they would suspect it is me, trying to join using a 2nd user name. If they can identify my ISP, with my ISP being local, then I'm screwed so to speak. I can not ask general questions on that forum due to verbal harrassment by other members. I need a new idendity, new user name, another e-mail address such as yahoo, etc. with my ISP not being able to be identified. I doubt the administrators would try to trace it if my questions and so forth did not parallel previous questions. They will try to connect the dots. I need to appear to have a different ISP.

Does proxy make my ISP not to be identified? (legality here of two user names and the subject matter of the forum is below 0% - there are no illegal acitivity)
It's questions being asked and there are rattlesnakes in there ready to bounce on new users and their questions.
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Commented:
Or use two different browsers on the same computer: IE for one ID and Firefox for another.
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Commented:
or find a new forum...
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--> I can unplug my cable modem but the signal from the ISP is still there, 24/7.

No not really, but sort of.  Unplug your phone from the wall jack, now pick up the receiver.  Do you hear dial tone?  If you do you need to get your ears checked.  :)   No of course not, even though your phone company is sending a single down the line there is nothing on your end for it to talk to.

Same is true for your Internet connection.  Your ISP may be sending a signal down the wire, but if there is nothing on the other end to talk to as far as they are concerned you are gone.

Once you plug your modem back in, your modem see the signal and start communicating back and forth with your ISP.
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Commented:
giltjr:
I have cable modem internet service, no phone line and ths signal to my modem, is inside my house 24 hours a day.

----------------

I would ask casual questions with my first user name which is over 1 year old.
I'd use the 2nd user name, but not at the same time. Different user name, different e-mail address with which to sign up for the forum, same computer, same internet service provider.

Don't I/P addresses for the SAME internet service provider start with the same numers up to a point before the remaining numbers change based on which server or other equipment, and different users?

I could be in Atlanta Ga, a HUGE city....this forum is worldwide but a close group of a few hundred. The city I am in does not matter.
If I join as John444 and they suspect, through the type questions I asked that I remind them of Jimbo321 (which is my other user name) they may say, oh, we the rattlesnakes with our cruel and rude and slanderous comments chased Jimbo321 to away, but heeeee's back as John444.

There are no two persons on this forum who use my ISP.

I'm not clear why two different browsers affect anything....?

How can IE and Firefox give me two unidentifiable i/p addresses?
My computer internet connection is going out the same wire to my ISP?

If Firefox located in "another city or state, USA" and on IE I'm John Doe in my city-county, and on Firefox I am Jane Smith who does not live in my city or county? Not understanding two different browsers changing my internet service provider.



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wow !
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let me say more. That forum is 95% females.
As a male, they will try to connect dots if two male members from the same city signup. I could leave and never go back using my current user name, wait a week or two and join again with another user name.

If the moderators or administrators can connect the dots and know it is STILL me, just coming back as a new user, that is what I need to get around.

It's some surrogacy forums and I screwed up royally using the same user name on two such boards. Some of the male bashing females who are offended by single males, and are members of both boards, saw me on the 2nd board and moved in with their trashing, bashing, and slanderous comments.
I want a fresh start, new e-mail address, new user name, etc.
So they won't be able to know the new user is still me, based on my "location" and internet service provider. It is very possible I'm the only member on that site from MY ENTIRE STATE, so two male members from the same city = dots that can be connected easily.

Absolutely nothing related to legal or inappropriate, just very few males on the board. They pick you apart, and if your marital status, etc. offends them tehy get their little group of 4-5 buddies and trash you until you leave.
The forums are for real life questions and they give good answers. So, I want to start fresh so they can not say, oh it is "him" again, back asking dumb questions, etc.
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Commented:
as I asked before - WHO is connecting the dots?
the admins?
they then tell everyone that its "him" again?
or are they also some of the harrassers?

it really sounds like you need a new forum if the admins are plotting against you ...

why not sign up as a woman?

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females can not ask questions that are for males only. I'd be discovered in 10 minutes pretending to be female.

males ask male related questions.
The audience however, the people giving the answers are 95% females.


the mods. and adminstrator would not notice my new user name, but some of the regular members could give opinions to the mods. and that could cause some "i/p" and ISP identification.

In surrogacy, all the surrogates are female.
And since these forums are 95% female, if a single male, or a gay couple, or even a straight couple go in and ask questions, 99% of the answers will come from women.

Those women, and some think they are ladies and they are not, will probably be able to google and find this thread were are discussing now. I could be a dead duck before even joining in 2 weeks with a new user name.

Paying $2000 to some agency for 10 questions and answers isn't worth the cost and travel. Best to get as many answers as you can on the forums. and there are not many of them. I know of 4 and I'm a member on two with the same user name. My error.

The question is: can the adminstrator-owners of the site, determine that John Doe in city X and Jane Smith in city X, "have the same ISP" because both persons i/p address have the same "few numbers" that are part of an i/p address?

I can not bootup in another city or state.

If they can not trace two of their members in the same city or state, to the same ISP. If they can trace it, not with police or courts, just their powers as web owners, then since there are not two male members on that site from my county, and maybe even my state, if they can trace it, then I'm stuck.

I've googled subjects many times seen dozens of EE threads so some of their members may have already seen this thread, and now associate my user name here with my user name on their forum.

So, no way to get answers here, and then have this thread deleted.

EE is on alot of google searches.

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Commented:
I can not go to the mods and say ask your female "friends" to stop trashing me.
The mods are females too.
If you offend them in some way, they are nasty snakes. And one of "their peers" (fellow females) have told me that in private e-mails.

I'm still not clear if they have the power to trace two users in the same city to the same ISP, since my city only has one ISP and there are not two members of that forum in my city. If they can trace the ISP thru i/p addresses, then me using a 2nd user name and abandoning, totally, the first user name, I'd be caught in a few days.

I can carefully word my questions, etc. and get by. If one crazy woman suspects it's me, they can jump like rattlesnakes.

Nothing illegal just harassment by members, who the mods. let get away with murder.
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Commented:
-- The question is: can the adminstrator-owners of the site, determine that John Doe in city X and Jane Smith in city X, "have the same ISP" because both persons i/p address have the same "few numbers" that are part of an i/p address?

The EE admins have access to the web servers logs. In the web servers logs is your IP address, and mine.  They can easily go to www.arin.net (assuming you are in the USA) and put in the IP address to see what ISP that address belongs to.

Go to www.arin.net and put in the public IP address assigned to your computer right now.  Once they know what ISP owns that address they can trace down where that ISP does business.  If your ISP only does business in your town/area and your town/area is small enough they can guess it is you.
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Commented:
here is my current i/p address.
67.197.30.7

I'll check it again tomorrow.

I'm guessing everything will be the same except the 7, possibly the 30 too.

So the 67.197 can identify my ISP....?
and pinpoint my city-county since my ISP is the only one around.
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Commented:
nickg
your questions (all of them) have been answered ...
and each time you ask the same questions again as if we don't seem to get it!

I mean really - go back and read all of this - you keep coming back with "the question is:" and then you ask what you've already asked and gotten answers to!
Aren't you reading our responses???

it seems that you are just wanting to vent to us here about the other forum
you have no idea how interested we are in the other forum
what are you cat fighting on a girls forum for anyway???
don't answer that

at this point WHY don't you start trying some of our suggestions instead of looping back around and asking the same questions again???

i can see you are stressed by this whole situation - and i'm sorry - but if you try some of our suggestions they may work and voila - you can start fighting anonymously again!

good luck

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Commented:
That IP address is within a range allocated to:

     Rock Hill Telephone Company

The have the range:

     67.197.0.0 - 67.197.31.255

So your IP address could be any address between the above two numbers.
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Commented:
I went to arin.et
it displayed my i/p address.
I signed up and see no way to use my i/p address to search for ISP.
------------------
giltjr:
That IP address is within a range allocated to:
Rock Hill Telephone Company
The have the range:
67.197.0.0 - 67.197.31.255
So your IP address could be any address between the above two numbers.
----------
That company has changed names long ago, but they are exclusive to my city and immediate area (county).

It looks like the range is 0.0 to 31.255 = 31,255 subscribers..?..(online at the present time maybe)

If change of browser, change of computer, and everything else all goes back to that phone company, then my goal is no good.
That forum does not have an equal mix of male and female members and with huundreds of anonymous visitors (since you can look around and see previous questions and answers), and many members who join to ask a question or two and then stop posting, and maybe a couple dozen "regular" members, it is almost impossible for two members of that forum to be in my city. So no where for me to hide but a proxy. Right ?
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Commented:
--> It looks like the range is 0.0 to 31.255 = 31,255 subscribers..?..(online at the present time maybe)

No, IP addressing is really based on hex max.  Each position can go from 0 to 255. So it would be

     0.0-255
     1.0-255
     2.0-255
        |
        |
     31.0-255

or 32  * 255 = 8,160 total IP addresses, minus at least 2 (you can't 0.0 or 31.255).  They could have way more than 8,160 subscribers as long as they are not all connected at a single time.
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Commented:
67.197.31.127
is my i/p address today, so
67.197.30.7 yesterday and today:
67.197.31.127

giltjr:
the county has close to 200,000 people(217,448 - Jul 2008)

and the only ISP choice for most of them is this company, so I'd be surprised if they had under 50,000 subscriber's. I do not know the actual numbers.

--------------------
I understand IP address.
If that forum does not have other members from my city-county, then if one male member has a user name and basically abandons it, and 4 weeks later here comes a new member, a male, from that same "trace-able ISP = same town or county = 99.9% chance it is the same person.

Some seem to be missing the point. If ISP is traceable I can not use two user names, unless I change ISP's which I can not.
I may be the only male on the forum in my entire state which surely has multiple ISP's. The members who look for multiple user names by the same person, would have a far more difficult and almost no chance, of proving two people in my state with two different ISP's were the same person.

If a proxy doesn't hide me that won't work either.
Their two user rule is to prevent people from spamming, or what they call trolling. That is not the issue. The issue I have been verbally harassed and slandered. However, the slanderers don't give me their name and address. When you have 95% females with female mods. and administrators are female too, and many of them will not be a surrogate for a single male, they can get offended by a single male and have a habit of bashing until that person goes silent or leaves. Members who have known each other for years jump on the band wagon. One mis stated word or phrase and you could have 5-6 "ladies" jump on you. There are no males in there to come to someone's defense. But that is who are surrogate's, females, and questions have to basically be directed to females. Oh they love gay couples, no big deal. Single males are a different animal to some of these female snakes.

There are not many other such forums, only maybe 3 and I'm a member of two of the 3, so moving to other boards is not much of an option. I asked a question on another board 4 months ago and still no answer. I could die waiting on an answer. I have to go where the "crowd" is. The larger the audience the quicker the answer.

Back to the question. If they can trace two "different" people, a man, and a woman posing as a man, to the same ISP, then I'm stuck.
I could join, but would have to tip toe around with extreme care or they could connect the dots in their mind and have the mods search ISP's, and I repeat over and over, there are not two members of that forum in my county.

Now if they had 3-4 members in my county or on my ISP, then YES, a 4th or 5th could join and they would think nothing of it. With me being the only member in my county, for a 2nd to join from my county = suspicion.



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Commented:
giltjr:
can you tell me how to search my i/p on arin.net?

it seems you did.
That IP address is within a range allocated to:
Rock Hill Telephone Company
The have the range:
67.197.0.0 - 67.197.31.255

I joined arin.net and see no such search tools.
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Commented:
i was a member of a forum years ago - it was a coding forum similar to EE but without the point system.
the rules stated that only one account was allowed per person there also.
i will always remember a member - i believe his name was jeff - he had 2 accounts.
he would post with one account and then would log in with the other account and compliment the first account on what a great programmer he was.
members (not admins) started noticing this and harrassed him a bit - just poking fun cause it was so blatant that it was humorous.
jeff would protest saying that they were not the same person - he then would get things mixed up and post saying the wrong stuff with the wrong account. jeff was not all there ...

and i'm sure he may have felt that he was being harrassed and driven away also

post the name of the forum and i'll sign up to test whether a misspoke word or phrase will get 5-6 ladies to jump on me ...
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Commented:
Some surrogates will not carry a child for a single male.
Some are offended when they encounter a single male wanting to use surrogacy. These are the types that will find something wrong with everything you say. I don't have time to flap around with two user names at the same time. Just looking to join, low profile, ask questions, get real answers, etc.
I could pretend to be a female and ask questions that were posed to me by my "theoretical" husband, which would be a male asking male related questions.
Ha.......you go into this forum and your first question is something that will stir up a hornets nest, like "where can I find the surrogate with the lowest fee", you'll quickly be accused of trying to cut corners, or you'll be called disrespectful to women.
One gay male with a partner, wanted to know how they both could be biological fathers, so they wanted some guarantee of twins. This guy got bashed around and banned. He tried to come back with another user name and got caught.
Single males like myself are more a bother to some of them, then gay or lesbian singles or couples. There is a specific forum for same sex couples, etc.
Others, like single males who are not gay have to venture into the other forums and there are the scattered rocks with a snake hiding beneath a few of them.

Commented:
Ip's are logged in the forum database when logging in, when posting, with pm's etc.
So it just takes a forum admin a simple query to see which same ip's have been used on different users to catch all the duplicate users.

Ip addresses are given to your modem when you connect to the internet. Everything behind the modem (local network) will share the same ip address. So different users posting from the same house or company network will have ths same ip address.

If you want to omit this you can use certain anonymizer services that allow anonymous surfing.
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Top Expert 2014

Commented:
I think some of this is getting beyond the original question.

1) The admin of the site can get your IP address.

2) The IP address can be traced back to your ISP.

3) Even if you turn off your modem and turn it back on to get a new IP address, the new address will still be traced back to your ISP.

4) Using a proxy server from a service that provides anonymous Internet access MAY help hide you.  The admin will still see an IP address.  However, the IP address will be traced back to the ISP of the company providing the proxy service.
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Commented:
"I think some of this is getting beyond the original question" !!!
HA - thats an understatement!!!

This guy was given answers to his question several times! - plus solutions to multiple other questions!
Did anyone else notice that when a solution is posed to him - his next post is to repeat his question again?

It's possible we are getting a feel for why the womenfolk chased him out of town with torches and pitch forks ...
Top Expert 2010

Commented:
LOL - I kind of quit following this thread a day or two ago. He needs to award points and get on with his life.
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Commented:
giltjr:
can you tell me how to search my i/p on arin.net?

it seems you did.
That IP address is within a range allocated to:
Rock Hill Telephone Company
The have the range:
67.197.0.0 - 67.197.31.255

I joined arin.net and see no such search tools.
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Commented:
WOW!
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Top Expert 2014
Commented:
This one is on us!
(Get your first solution completely free - no credit card required)
UNLOCK SOLUTION
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Commented:
giltjr:
got it..........

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Commented:
dividing points equally among answers that were helpful and not repetitive alternatives that do not work. (ex: change forums)
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Commented:
we can hardly wait nick ...
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Commented:
thanks
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