Solved

Battery Backups / Surge Protectors

Posted on 2010-11-19
13
635 Views
Last Modified: 2012-05-10
Hi EE Members,

I have a question that I would like to ask to see what everyone's opinion is. I have an HP ProLiant Server ML350 G6 with 4GB RAM and 1 Xeon X5250 Processor and 2 Hard drives and 1 Power Supply.

The question that I have is can I use an APC Back-UPS XS 1500 for a Battery Backup / Surge Protector?

I went to APC's website and used they product selector tool and they suggest that I use a $500 APC Smart-UPS 1500.
0
Comment
Question by:asp_net2
  • 5
  • 3
  • 2
  • +2
13 Comments
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ken2421
Comment Utility
asp net2,
Yes they have made a reccomendation that is different that what you have. If money wasn't an object we would all have the best of everything. In the real world we buy and use the best we can afford.

Almost any UPS is better that no UPS. The one that you have will surely be reliable for your system though it may lack a few of the features of the more expensive one. If you can afford and want the reccomended one then buy it. On the other hand I would have no problem with using the one that you have for the unit you describe.

HTH,
Ken
0
 
LVL 4

Author Comment

by:asp_net2
Comment Utility
Ok, thank you, I was worried about power spikes and the unit I have not proteciting it like the one APC recommened.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:ken2421
Comment Utility
In that respect it should do a equally well.

Good luck,
Ken
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:losip
Comment Utility
While not wishing to put you off the Back-UPS, I would point out that the Smart-UPS will protect you against twice the surge energy than the Back-UPS will.

The power supply in the ML350G6 is pretty resilient to surges because it just produces 48v DC that is distributed to the motherboard power regulators so you should be OK with the Back-UPS.

At the expense of some surge protection but giving you much better resilience/redundancy, what I would do is to put the money saved towards a second power power supply for the G6.  Then, I would connect one supply to raw utility power and one to the Back-UPS.  This will mean that your server will stay up if the utility power fails or if the UPS fails.
0
 
LVL 2

Accepted Solution

by:
jimbeam69 earned 250 total points
Comment Utility
the main thing to consider is the Watts supplied by the UPS and the Watts needed by your equipment. If the UPS is rated at 500 Watt and your server consumes 500 watt the UPS may not give you enough time for a clean shutdown.
I would rate the UPS 3x higher than the actual wattage needed. Also you need to add peripherals to the wattage, such as the monitor or maybe external drives, and consider how much time it takes to shutdown.
For me it was cheaper to buy separate battery backups, one for each box and one for the monitors and external hard drives.

surge protection is extremely important, get a good one. I had once lost all electronic equipment in my house in Dublin, IRL after a lightning storm (how likely is that huh:) which didn't even come close to the house
hope this helps...
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:losip
Comment Utility
In your case, your server will consume just under 300 watts with the configuration you quote.  This means that the Smart-UPS 1500 will power the server for around 52 minutes in the event of power failure - if the server is the only device connected to the UPS. Similarly, the Back-UPS will power it for around 22 minutes - plenty of time to shut down cleanly but not to maintain service for long.
0
How your wiki can always stay up-to-date

Quip doubles as a “living” wiki and a project management tool that evolves with your organization. As you finish projects in Quip, the work remains, easily accessible to all team members, new and old.
- Increase transparency
- Onboard new hires faster
- Access from mobile/offline

 
LVL 55

Assisted Solution

by:andyalder
andyalder earned 250 total points
Comment Utility
An APC Back-UPS will not work with a reasonably recent HP Proliant, they require pure sine wave input. as soon as there's a brown-out the server will crash. That's true for several other server manufacturers as well.

PSUs capable of running on the pseudo sine-wave that comes out of cheap UPSs are less efficient than PSUs that require pure sine wave, so to allow them to say "our servers are more efficient than theirs" manufacturers use the less-flexible high efficiency PSUs.

Smart-UPS have pure sine wave output so are OK, or you could buy Eaton instead of APC, just as good, arguably better but also cheaper because they've got less of the market share.

Oh, and I don't think the PSUs in Proliants just turn AC into -48V, if that was the case then -48VDC common slot PSUs for a DL380 G7 would cost a bit less than $750 each because they'd just be a bit of wire.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:losip
Comment Utility
AndyAlder: I'm always willing to learn from a Genius so I would be pleased if you could point me to documentation that says a stepped sine wave approximation waveform will not work with the 503296-B21 High Efficiency power supply (or the higher power versions).
0
 
LVL 55

Expert Comment

by:andyalder
Comment Utility
I'm not sure there is official documentation, there have been many threads about people not getting them to run on step aproximated power though, for example http://forums13.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447627+1290419913326+28353475&hpweb_printable=true&threadId=1199678

There's http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c02492972/c02492972.pdf but it's more about HP branded UPSs (most are from Eaton) than the common slot PSUs.

You can see http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Servers/Q_25141933.html where HP support told them they needed pure sine wave output, no authoratitive reference though.

As usual it's all over the Internet, Google gives lots of hits for Proliant plus "pure sine wave" but HP don't have a public document on it.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:losip
Comment Utility
I'll check with the engineers in Houston who design the power supplies.
0
 
LVL 9

Expert Comment

by:losip
Comment Utility
AndyAlder: I've had a reply from the design engineers.  The definitive answer is this:

In the past, HP have had issues with UPS units that have an extended zero voltage duration but this is not true of their current products such as the common slot high efficiency power supplies which work perfectly well on step-approximated sine wave supplies.  However, he said "why back up an enterprise class server with a PC class UPS?" which seems a reasonable comment but not what the OP asked.

As for the output of these power supplies, I can confirm that they are a single voltage which is passed to the motherboard and not the +5v, -5v, +12v, +3.3v of "normal" supplies.  However, the voltage is 12v DC not 48v (slip of my memory!).
0
 
LVL 55

Expert Comment

by:andyalder
Comment Utility
I'd like to see HP make that a statement on their website since it's pretty obvious from other threads that they don't work so well on step-approximated UPSs.
0
 
LVL 4

Author Comment

by:asp_net2
Comment Utility
Hi all,

First, let me that each and everyone of you for ALL your notes and time. I don't have much money to spend and put most of all my money for my business into this server. I do agree that i should put money into something that is going to protect my investment. I have a newegg account and would like to know which one I should go with for this server. Once again thank you all for your time, it is very much appreciated.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101387&Tpk=SMT1500

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842111027&cm_re=OMNIVS1500XL-_-42-111-027-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842111100&Tpk=SMART1500XL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842111296&Tpk=OMNIVS1500XLTAA
0

Featured Post

IT, Stop Being Called Into Every Meeting

Highfive is so simple that setting up every meeting room takes just minutes and every employee will be able to start or join a call from any room with ease. Never be called into a meeting just to get it started again. This is how video conferencing should work!

Join & Write a Comment

Usually shares are where we want them for our users and we tend to take them for granted. There are times, however, when those shares may disappear causing difficulty for your users. One of the first things to try is searching for files that shou…
this article is a guided solution for most of the common server issues in server hardware tasks we are facing in our routine job works. the topics in the following article covered are, 1) dell hardware raidlevel (Perc) 2) adding HDD 3) how t…
Sending a Secure fax is easy with eFax Corporate (http://www.enterprise.efax.com). First, Just open a new email message.  In the To field, type your recipient's fax number @efaxsend.com. You can even send a secure international fax — just include t…
Polish reports in Access so they look terrific. Take yourself to another level. Equations, Back Color, Alternate Back Color. Write easy VBA Code. Tighten space to use less pages. Launch report from a menu, considering criteria only when it is filled…

771 members asked questions and received personalized solutions in the past 7 days.

Join the community of 500,000 technology professionals and ask your questions.

Join & Ask a Question

Need Help in Real-Time?

Connect with top rated Experts

11 Experts available now in Live!

Get 1:1 Help Now