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CSS tableless table spacing issues

I have done some Bing searches on this but most of the articles i have seen are for layouts or forms not tables and most were in 2007/08...nothing really new.

Attached is an example of what i was trying to do using lists...only problem here is that i can't get equal spacing between each column as ul cannot except width parameters. I am not set on using unordered list...whatever you think would be better is fine with me.

Any ideas? Thank you.
<style>
li.size-title{
	display:inline;
	font-weight:bold;
	margin:0px;
	padding:5px;
	text-align:center;
  border: 1px solid #066;
}
li.size-row{
	display:inline;
	margin:0px;
	padding:5px;
	text-align:center;
  border: 1px solid #066;
}
li.size-row-alt{
	color:#CCC;
	display:inline;
	margin:0px;
	padding:5px;
	text-align:center;
  border: 1px solid #066;
}
</style>


<ul>
  <li class="size-title">US</li>
  <li class="size-title">UK</li>
  <li class="size-title">France</li>
  <li class="size-title">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-title">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-title">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-title">Australia</li>
</ul> 
<ul>
  <li class="size-row">0 (XS)</li>
  <li class="size-row">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row">France</li>
  <li class="size-row">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row">Australia</li>
</ul> 
<ul>
  <li class="size-row-alt">2 (S)</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">France</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row">4 (M)</li>
  <li class="size-row">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row">France</li>
  <li class="size-row">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row-alt">US</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">France</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row">US</li>
  <li class="size-row">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row">France</li>
  <li class="size-row">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row-alt">US</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">France</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row">US</li>
  <li class="size-row">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row">France</li>
  <li class="size-row">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row">Australia</li>
</ul>
<ul>
  <li class="size-row-alt">US</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">UK</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">France</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Germany</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Italy</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Japan</li>
  <li class="size-row-alt">Australia</li>
</ul>

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Blue Street Tech
Asked:
Blue Street Tech
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1 Solution
 
scrathcyboyCommented:
Are you trying to get a grid?  If so, how many columns wide, how many rows?  The alignment would be perfect in a table, but you don't want to use tables?  The other way is to make 3 DIVs if you want the grid 3 wide, and put some UL groups in one div, some in the middle and some in the right.  You would have to float or position the DIVs to attempt to get an equal spacing.  Even then, they can't be centered.
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Blue Street TechLast KnightsAuthor Commented:
Thanks for the quick response scrathcyboy!

Yes, i want a grid with equal spacing 9 rows (including the title row) and 7 columns.

I have as much CSS as possible for SEO and processing reasons so that is why i was leaning toward tableless table.

But maybe considering what you have said...table is semantic and maybe more appropriate here.

This is going to be a sizing chart in a ecommerce cart that pops out in a div layer.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
9 rows and 7 columns?  Going to be tough without a table, which would do it perfectly and so easily.

Let's correct some SEO issues here -- tables are read and parsed faster than anything (DIVs have to be composed and balanced before the page is rendered), so they are quicker to load than a complex DIV structure.  Second, you can style TABLES just as well with CSS as you can DIVs.   Neither are SEO hostile, and CSS is not necessarily more SEO friendly than in-line styling.  So there could be a few misconceptions troubling you that aren't really problems for browsers and SE tractors.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
The only potential problem I can see is wrapping a table inside a DIV.  There is no problem displaying it by display:block on the DIV -- that works.  Where people have the trouble is that they try to position the table using DIV positioning, assuming that the DIV can control the table display completely.

THis is only true to a point.  People forget that DIVs are fixed entities and tables expand to fit the content, so when the content is large, they get rendering problems because the table, once displayed, no longer "fits" the DIV or can be controlled by it.  The way you avoid this is to SIZE the table columns and rows carefully so that it won't exceed the DIV size -- and positionability -- and then you have no problem.
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Blue Street TechLast KnightsAuthor Commented:
Wow, scrathcyboy!

Thanks for all the insight and setting me straight i my psuedo concerns! I will use talbes them.

The div layer popup is in the form of a lightbox effect. I am giong to try to ID the table and then call the table ID in the popup. this concept works using <p>, <span> and <div> tags...so i think it should work here as well. i will post you with the results.
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scrathcyboyCommented:
Yes you CAN style, ID and name tables by tags just like other elements.  It's too bad we didn't all get that input before they said that DIVs obsolete tables because you can style them and you can't tables.  It was erroneous information that wrongly biased a generation of programmers.  I have "rediscovered" styling of tables and cells recently, and some of the effects you can get are really quite beautiful.

I hope it is "lightbox like" -- meaning you did it -- if it is "lightbox" code, you will indeed have problems.
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Blue Street TechLast KnightsAuthor Commented:
Calling the table would not work as you suggested, so I ended up wrapping teh table in a div and it works like a charm now. Thanks for all your insight & help!
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Blue Street TechLast KnightsAuthor Commented:
*Let me re-phrase, you were correct, i did not have any luck calling the table*
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scrathcyboyCommented:
I kinda suspected that.  Styling works fine on tables, but display:block and display:none are generally used on DIV and SPAN tags.  Anyway, glad it has worked for you.
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Blue Street TechLast KnightsAuthor Commented:
I ended up using scrathcyboy's answer & used tables styled by CSS.
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