How to test-boot a PC using puppy linux from a CD

link:

http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm 

I clicked on:
 Download Version 5.1.1 from ibiblio.org: lupu-511.iso

burn option popped up, burned the 130mb data to a 650mb 12X disc.

burn completed.
put burned CD in CD drive of Presario 5000 that won't bootup and the results are ???

What is this boot disc suppose to do by itself?

It is doing zilch, unless I'm suppoed to press some key on the keyboard.

----------
before doing the above, I downloaded an older version of the boot software, from May 2009. VERY small file. My only option was to "save target" and I chose desktop so I could find it. It was able to be opened using notepad or wordpad only.
I downloaded BurnCDCC as recommended to get burn speed of 2x and the burner had a "browse" to locate what was to be burned. The file was on the desktop but it msut not be an image. It's on the desktop but it is not found using the browse tool on the burner. So I went back and clicked on the 2nd link above. That appeared to load the burner on the PC which is Nero. The burn was indicating successful.
----------
So, forgetting the last paragraph,
how does the boot CD work?



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nickg5Asked:
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☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
Check the CD boots in the other Presario you have (you may need to change the BIOS setting to boot first from the CD (did you do this on the 5000?)
It is possible to accidentally burn the .iso file as data onto the CD so check via Windows EXplorer that the file doesn't appear in the CD drive as a single .iso

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nickg5Author Commented:
Oh no, not Windows Explorer.
I do not understand what it is, how to open it, how to use it, etc., etc.

I went back to the Presario 5000 to remove the boot disk and try it on the Presario 7000. The CD rom on the 5000 would not open because the PC was off, so I turned it on, to remove the CD.
The computer began to bootup and got to CHK-DSK.
This has happened before on this machine and it would complete stage 1, and get to over 90% of stage 2 and then stop. This time, it completed all 3 stages, removed some files, and installed some "orphaned" files or something.
It booted to the desktop veeeeeery slowly.
This Presario desktop HAS Windows XP, so that question has been answered. This PC was loaded with Turbo Tax, Symantec, 3-4 different Yahoo programs, AVG, on and on. I removed every program on the computer except the Windows programs and anything else that was under 10 mb.
I shut the computer down, moved the power cord and mouse and keyboard to the Presario 7000 to check the boot disc. I turned the PC on and before I could even get the disc in the CD rom, it booted up. This Presario 7000, a newer machine than the 5000 has Windows 98.

So, how do I use this boot disc?

I am on my own Vista machine now and installed the disc in the CD rom.

I THINK, what the whole world knows to be Windows Explorer, has opened up. Here is what is in the window:
BOOT.MSG
INITRD.GZ
ISOLINUX.CFG
LUPU_511.SFS
VMLINUZ
LOGO.16
HELP.MSG
BOOT security catalog
and a VLC media file (.bin) ISOLUNUX

Does that tell you if I have data or (?) on the boot disc I burned?

I will try the Presario 5000 again. Maybe with the completion of CHK-DSK
and removal of all the large programs it may boot up.

If not, how do I use the bootup disc?



_Commented:
As already mentioned, you need to set the CDrom drive as the First Boot Device in the BIOS.
Some BIOSes will give you a key to press during the BIOS bootup, to boot from different drives (usually F8 or F9).
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PlantwizCommented:
nickg5,

When you go to MyComputer and select your optical drive (via right-click) you should see an option Explore or such, this will show you the files on that optical disk you have installed in the drive.

As far as booting to the optical drive, you will need to set that as the first device in your boot order and the disk needs to be bootable or the boot order will follow to the next device listed (probably your HDD).


I've read your previous thread and this one, how much computer experience do you have?  Some of the suggestions the members mentioned seem to have been missed by you or you didn't respond.  Not having experience is not a problem, but please let the members know how proficient you are with tasks so we don't accidently assume you 'know' something and figured you noticed to check for it during the startup process/burn process/bios settings etc...

nickg5Author Commented:
As Masqueraid mentioned:
It is possible to accidentally burn the .iso file as data onto the CD so check via Windows Explorer that the file doesn't appear in the CD drive as a single .iso

Does the information I see above in my Explorer window, which are files, indicate that the boot disc has been burned properly?

At this moment I'm alternating one mouse and keyboard for the 3 PC's, so I can not work with the older machines, for some time.

Yes, I have been in the bios before.
I can get in there via F8 or other key.
☠ MASQ ☠Commented:
The list of files you posted shows that the .iso file has been unpacked correctly onto the CD (and as you used BurnCDCC that's to be expected).
It would be logical to assume the CD is therefore also bootable (a special type of file structure that BurnCDCC will have also applied to the disk).  If it's not starting then the most likely reason is that the PC is not choosing to go to the CD drive first to look for a bootable disk but instead goes to the hard disk.

On the 5000 change the setting to select the CD as the first boot disk

http://www.ehow.com/how_6816372_boot-rom-compaq-presario-5000.html
nickg5Author Commented:
BurnCDCC was recommended with the older versions of the software.
When I abandoned that because BurnCDCC could not find the file on my desktop, I went back and used the link to the latest version. That method opened up Nero without any action by me. So, the CD was burned, properly, by Nero.

By the way, once the CD boots the computer, where do I go to diagnose what is causing it to fail to bootup by itself.
It is most likely trash.

Too bad the Presario 7000 with 60 gig HD only has Windows 98. It could be sold for something beside nothing. The 5000 with XP has Office 2000 on it.
PlantwizCommented:
Here nice Puppy tutorial:

http://www.computer-juice.com/forums/f54/how-recover-files-windows-using-linux-live-cd-16100/


However, if the drive you are diagonising was marked for a chekc disk then you may run into an error while trying to mount it w/ Pupply.


Before you go through this...did you try recovery console with XP?  if you do try it, run Chkdsk on that drive, but XP would need to be installed on the drive you are testing.

nickg5Author Commented:
hoping to get to this issue in the next 3-4 days.
nickg5Author Commented:
the 5000 failed to bootup 3 times.
Then it booted up and I was pressing F8.
I got to a screen that said there was an issue with the keyboard.
The choices were F1 boot, F10 setup.
I hit F10 and I am not in bios, but I do have the boot order.
1st is IDE CD rom drive
2nd is diskette drive A
3rd is USB device
4th is Hard Drive C
5th is Compaq Ethernet controller.

While I have this thing on, and in setup, and it says CD Rom is first, how do I proceed with the boot disc from Puppy?

Shutdown improperly and hope it boots next time?
F8 does not appear to be Bios though I now have access to
File
Storage
Security
Power
Advanced

The screen is blue and is flickering a little, very intermittantly
_Commented:
Since the CD drive is listed first, it should boot to Puppy.
First check that the Puppy disk will boot another system, so you know it's good.

If it still will not boot the 5000, you might have some kind of hardware problem
(bad cd drive, cable, motherboard controller, etc.)
Check under Storage (or Advanced) and see if the CDdrive is listed in the BIOS.
nickg5Author Commented:
It has been on for 30 minutes. I've heard a couple minor popping sounds.
I think I tried the disc last week and it failed, so people said go to bios to change boot order.
I can use the 7000 and F10 and check boot order therem and if it is CD rom try there. I think someone on this thread (or the other one) said that the disc was burned properly.

Any harm to use it to boot my Vista machine?
_Commented:
Nope. Just make sure you don't Install it if it ask. You want it to run from the CD disk.
Actually, it doesn't usually hurt anything if you turn the system Off when it is still booting.
nickg5Author Commented:
your 2nd sentence got me.
I thought I am supposed to let the disc boot to the desktop?
(not turn off while still booting)

Then shutdown properly using mouse > start > shutdown.
The reboot into bios again, and change boot order if hard drive is desired to be first.

Also, once this puppy boots it, where is the diagnosis on what is wrong?
_Commented:
>> I thought I am supposed to let the disc boot to the desktop?

Usually you do. But since you are just seeing if the disk is good, in a known working system, it isn't really needed.
Since this is a cd, it is read only, and it doesn't do anything to the hard drive unless you say it can. "No harm, No foul".
I don't make a habit of it, but I haven't had any issues doing it with a bootcd yet. (crossing fingers)

>> ...where is the diagnosis on what is wrong

I'm not familiar with Puppy, but there should be some diags hiding around the GUI, somewhere.
Skim through the tutorial  that was posted by Plantwiz, or just start digging through the menus. Look for something like Hardware Management or System Configuation.
nickg5Author Commented:
it happened quick on my computer, Puppy 4.2.1
F2 got me a boot menu and I just turned it off.
The disc seems fine.

I can not try to boot the 5000 now.

If the disc fails to boot it, then the Presario 5000 is deathly ill?
_Commented:
Excellent news.   : )

>> ...then the Presario 5000 is deathly ill?

Maybe. It could just be a bad drive, or a bad/loose cable.
You would have to reset the cable or swap some parts around, to know for sure.
PlantwizCommented:
@nickg5

>>the 5000 failed to bootup 3 times.
Then it booted up and I was pressing F8.
I got to a screen that said there was an issue with the keyboard.
The choices were F1 boot, F10 setup.
I hit F10 and I am not in bios, but I do have the boot order.
1st is IDE CD rom drive
2nd is diskette drive A
3rd is USB device
4th is Hard Drive C
>>5th is Compaq Ethernet controller.



Are you certain the optical drive is functioning properly??  You have listed that it is an IDE drive, is this the origial drive to the system?

I'm wondering seriously based on your comments if the drive isn't simply failing.  Do you have another IDE drive you might swap?  Or a thumb drive you can put Puppy onto?  I'd test the drive before doing  too much and I suspect you don't have SATA connectors internally that you could use in lieu of another IDE, correct?  Nevertheless, $30ish dollars tends to cover a new optical drive. It may be worth a swap...
nickg5Author Commented:
Not sure about the optical drive. Do not know what it is.
No extra IDE drive, if you mean a CD rom.
No thumb drive whatever that is.
Do not know what SATA connectors are.

PC is 10 years old so it isn't worth fixing. I'll take it to a shop for free diagnosis and report back.

I've gone there more than once and it is always a hard drive or a motherboard. Never been diagnosed with anything else. This  seem to always result in new computers. I do not know enough to dispute the diagnosis. I've lost about 3 motherboards and 3 hard drives in 12-15 years. Seems like alot to me.
PlantwizCommented:
Optical Drive = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc_drive

IDE drive - would be any drive that has the IDE connection (or 40 pin) and uses the ribbon cable.

Thumb Drive - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-thumb-drive.htm  or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive

SATA - the next generation after the IDE.  Serial ATA is abbreviated as SATA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA



Considering a PC is recommended (at least in business) to be upgraded approximately every 3 years and a notebook is recommended to upgrade every 18 months (and yes, one can get longer out of the devices, but for budgeting and planning this is pretty typical for basic business users)  A home user might stretch those times out a bit longer but based on what you have written you are averaging 4-5 years per machine...that is real good.

And while it may seem like a lot for you, from what I've seen over the years, you are averaging a good rate-of-return on your investment.

I know plenty of people who get 6 years out of a system, but they barely use it during those 6 years.  Purchasing better quality brand products or buidling your own (but it sounds like you are not real famiilar with computer hardware based on the above) will stretch your investment.

Initially, I thought you seriously wanted to fix the problem.  However, it sounds like you only want to know why it died, and that is fine too.

HDD - (hard disk drives) - will die because they are used frequently and have moving parts which wear over time.  Plan about 3 years on these, but some like Seagate (one of the best brands) has models warrantied for 5 years.  Regardless, if your data isn't backed-up, dead drive or not, warranty or not, your data might be lost...just know at some point, they do fail.

Mobo - (motherboard) does take quite a bit of wear, but even without moving parts, it takes electricty through the very small parts and over time capacitors wear, a surge might happen and break something (lightening storms, static, etc..) and small burns appear if one inspects carefully.  Even dust over time will trap heat and damage the board more quickly than expected.  As will no or too low of airflow.

Fans, HDD, Optical Drives, FDD, Mobo's these items are very normal to replace during the useful lifetime of a computer.  (cables too).

nickg5Author Commented:
well yes, find out the problem and what the fix was, and hope it was not a major repair.
I've sold quite a few older models, so I might get $50 for it if it worked fine.

So, limited repair cost. It may be junk, or sold for parts on Craigslist.

PlantwizCommented:
Just to clarify...

We started with attempting to load Puppy Linux which leads to a suspected a bad optical drive and now without really testing the drive you're taking it to a repair shop for them to test?

It sounds like your diagnostic skills might be limited so taking it to a shop is a good idea, but might we assist you here?  

I'm simply curious by your last comment, how do you sell computer parts if you are not able to test them yourself?
nickg5Author Commented:
I can sell working 10 year old computers, locally with monitor, for about $50. I have two left. This is one of them. It appears to have more serious problems than a simple fix.
Someone who knows how to install a power supply, etc. after the shop locates the problem, might give me $25 for it. Maybe less, maybe in the trash can.
nickg5Author Commented:
the repair shop has the pc.

It booted twice and then "crapped" (was the term used)

The guy's first impression was a hard drive problem.
His second impression was the motherboard.
His third was the fact that the pc had Windows XP and only 128 ram.

They will try a new power supply, check the hard drive, and motherboard, at no charge, and call me when they are done.
nickg5Author Commented:
thanks
_Commented:
Thank you much.   : )
PlantwizCommented:
Interesting nickg5!


FWIW - installing a power supply is one of the easiest things to install, but if you have some local place to do all the testing and such for free...I suppose why not use them?   Good luck!
nickg5Author Commented:
pc needs a motherboard.
PlantwizCommented:
How much will they charge you for the mobo?  Are you fixing this then?  Or scrapping it?
nickg5Author Commented:
$200
being offered for sale on Craigslist for $24.

Some one with a board, or who can change the bad part(s) may take it.
The shop did not locate the part of the mother board that is bad.
They saw no bulging capacitors and checked the hard drive, ram needed for XP, and tried a power supply. As much as they could do in the "free diagnostic".
They "recommended" not fixing it, so they are a good honest shop.
(being so old, and the 128 ram will run XP, but not well)
If they had suggested fixing it, I'd had to be more carefuol with them going forward. Good shop!!
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