Link to home
Create AccountLog in
Avatar of hconant
hconantFlag for United States of America

asked on

Terminal Server and MS Office licensing

A while ago I posted a similar question and thought I had the answer.  Unforunately, the further I went the more confused I have become.  Or perhaps I simply just don't want to believe the legal conclusion.  Here is a link to a similar post which summarizes the same scenario many have already posed.  However, I still do not see a conclusive answer.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/08/08/4298215.aspx
The essense of the question is, how do you license MS Office apps when used in a Terminal Server environment.  I share the frustration demonstrated by the author of the above referenced blog.  A TS app (apparently except MSOffice) can, by its very nature and purpose, be accessed from any non-specific connected device.  Wouldn't you presume that is specifically why MS created it?  Or at least one of the leading reasons?  It is certainly a reason many use it.   Which, should be the purpose of the TS Cal licenses, and that should be that.  MS insisting that the Office apps are per device simply does not work for their TS scenario and virtual desktops.  I agree with one of the statements made in the above referenced user forum.  MS needs to acknowledge virtual desktops and associate TS Cals as "devices" within the TS and MS Office license.  So if there is no current license that works reasonably with the TS remote apps or remote desktop or TS web access scenario, they should simply make that statement.  "MS Office cannot (effectively) be distributed in the TS scenario."  OR, they shoud make a clear statement of a practical (per TS Cal) licensing scario specifically for the Office apps.  If there is such a license scenario out there, PLEASE point me (and lots of other frustrated people) to it.  If anyone knows of a MS employee that can effectively address this, please pass that info along.  Like many others, I have exhausted myself speaking to the alleged MS licensing staff who seem to be unable to think out of the box. Thanks.
Avatar of digitap
digitap
Flag of United States of America image

some time ago (before 2008 TS and Office 2010), if you had a TS environment, you had to license Office on the TS and the client device.  i don't believe it's that way any longer.  review the link below and share your thoughts.

http://blog.mpecsinc.ca/2010/05/further-to-licensing-office-in-terminal.html
Avatar of Adam Brown
TS Remote App and it's associated features are mostly designed to assist in virtualization of Third party software that is license very differently from what MS licenses. MS does not have a RemoteApp licensing system yet, despite the fact that it would definitely be in their best interest to develop one. In the end, Microsoft wants people to purchase Volume Licenses of Office to support all of their users. RemoteApp allows you to bypass the deployment issues involved in getting office to users by virtualizing it and running it from a server, but the intention of RemoteApp is not to allow people to bypass their licensing agreements. It's there to allow convenience.

This, of course, goes against what I was told in my study for Windows 2008, where every single demo of the Remote App features involved someone utilizing Office with it after announcing that it would allow companies to save money (!) on licensing applications. Obviously, Microsoft's view is that it should decrease licensing costs for software *other* than theirs.
i am not really clear what your issues is .

the rule of thumb for MS Office licensing and TS is each desktop you connect to TS need a licence.


the below document give you a few scenarios.

http%3A%2F%2Fdownload.microsoft.com%2Fdownload%2F1%2F7%2F7%2F17745e4a-5d31-4de4-a416-07c646336d94%2Fdesktop_application_with_windows_server_terminal_services.docx


p/s: I am not MS employee
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
Avatar of hconant
hconant
Flag of United States of America image

Link to home
membership
Create an account to see this answer
Signing up is free. No credit card required.
Create Account
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Answered question myself.
interesting.  your question doesn't reflect what you wanted here, http:#a34479729.  how frustrating, but glad you found your answer.
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

I tried to be clear, but perhaps I did not.  But I was attempting to find out the licensing of MS Office on TS when the TS is not be accessed by the designed "device" the license is associated with since Office is license by device not user.  That is what the Software Assurance license add-on (which you pay for) solves.
actually, SA is the missing piece here.  what i've read and what i put in my solution above is as long as you have Open Licensing, you're covered.  however, you've found that you have to have SA.  is that what you're saying?

thanks for the clarification.
I really don't see what is so confusing about this...you talk about some "designated device" accessing office, each unique device requires a license, period.  Would you post the documentation that you are talking about that shows how, having SA on your office licenses changes the licensing model from per device to something else?  

If you are publishing an application to the Internet for random, anonymous users to come in and run office then you do have an issue.  SQL Server is bad like this.  If you have a website for people to use and the site uses SQL then you either count every unique user/device that hits the site and license it for SQL or you buy per processor.  That is something that actually happens.  I don't see many situations where you have random, anonymous users running office.  

Would you clarify this for the rest of us?  This is a topic that comes up alot and a clear explanation is good for the EE site.  
I have to admit I've actually been left a little confused where originally I thought I understood this...

My original thinking was that if you have workstation A, which is licenses for Office, then you could run Office locally no problems, and if you connected to TS and ran Office in a TS session from that same Workstation A, you'd be covered by the original Office license you had for the client...

But the idea I'm getting from this thread is that you'd actually need 2 Office licenses for Workstation A in that scenario, one to run Office locally, and another to run it within a TS session?

Or am I getting this all backwards??
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Blipman.  First, I am not addressing SQL server at all, which I know needs its own Cals.  This is stricklty MS Office.  And you may not see the need but you are not posing the question.  Many people need access to Office apps and are not in front of their office PC and may not be dragging their laptop around.  Happens apparently more often than you think.  It is not for "public" random use.  By the way if you read the MicrosoftProductUseRights(Worldwide)(English)(December2010)CR[1].doc, which is uploadable from the MS licensing site, you will see a provision for "roaming" rights that is only available with the Software Assurance license add-on.
PS:  And I don't appreciate some of the comments questioning my innability to understand a very intricate portion MS licensing.  I am a professional also, and licensing is VERY intricate.  Henci the 140 page document I reference herein.  Read it front and back and then ask "what is so fonfusing about this."  I don't want to make any mistakes and want to do things absolutely legal.  Any valueble input to the subject is appreciate.  Comments degrading my professionalism are not.
I've just noticed that this is more about licensing people to connect from random non-specific workstations, as opposed to my 'Workstation A' example - Ignore me, apparently I didn't quite follow the question properly!
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Ok.  Thanks for your participation nonetheless.  I am sure you were well intended. Have a nice day.
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Pete, I am going to try and clarrify your confusion since it is a common misunderstanding of the licensing, which also threw me off.  The per divice licensing of MS Office is somewhat convoluted.  Yes it is per device, but the TS is not considered a device so even though the app physically resides there, the license does not.  The accessing device is the device that the license applies to, even though the app is being accessed via TS.  So you don't need two licenses.  The TS actually does not need an instance of the Office license.  You do need some Cals to us TS but that is separate from the Office app question.  My concern was if the license is by device, what if I am not using my designated device.  Stuck at an airport, hotel, at a clients, no access to my laptop.  All sorts of scenarios.  So yes office does need to have an instance of a device for the license to associate to.  You can't simple allow User access.  So theoretically, if an employee, for example, had no PC assigned to them, or didn't own their own pc that the license could be assigned to, they would not be able to have access to the TS Office app.  And also consider, that the device being licensed, does not have to have a physical copy of the software on it.  Hence the TS.  So it is a bit confusing. I hope that helps you out.  It took me days of MS phone calls and hours of phone calls, and many tries until I got to just the right licensing support person who cut right through this.
@hconant :: certainly not meant to insult you.  as you say, this topic is VERY intricate and we want to make sure the information that shows up here is referenced preferably to a Microsoft website.

the SA notion comes as a surprise to me and providing a link to the information where you found that and where in the document you found that would be super.  you said,

"By the way if you read the MicrosoftProductUseRights(Worldwide)(English)(December2010)CR[1].doc, which is uploadable from the MS licensing site, you will see a provision for "roaming" rights that is only available with the Software Assurance license add-on."

obviously, if we'd read that document, we'd all be on the same page.  referencing your resources is important.

again, sorry for the hurt feelings.
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Digitap: No problem. And I wanted to reference wherein the document the roaming rights is referenced, but with 140 pages I couldn't put my finger on it quickly, and I wanted to get the post out.  But it is in there, and it was pointed out there to me by a REALLY great MS licensing rep who spent literally nearly 2 hrs on the phone with me late yesterday.  He is the one who pointed me to the download of this doc and every step of the way showed me the literally words therein that answered my questions. And I had many.  I told him he should put on a webinar with basically the exact model that he provided me with.  It was very enlightening and made things much more clear.  Here is the link to the doc download.

http://www.microsoftvolumelicensing.com/userights/DocumentSearch.aspx?Mode=3&DocumentTypeId=1

Go to page 3 of this link and the English version is about 1/3 of the way down the list.   It is basically the MS licensing bible.  Every professional should have a copy.
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

The roaming use rights is on page 38 of the download .doc at least in my formatted copy.  Just use Find "roaming" from within MS Word and you will see it.
Well I'm adding this one to my EE knowledge base, looks as if it could be v useful in the future! Thanks for the clarification, links and descriptions

Pete!
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Glad to hear that.
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

For a thread that I initially thought was DOA it actually turned out to be very productive.
Hconant, sorry if I sounded like I was critical of your ability to understand this issue, my comment came off in a way I did not intend.  Thanks for the link, I am seeing specific language on page 123 regarding roaming rights for Office.  So with SA, on a volume license installation of Office, there is a limited right to run the app from an external device outside of the IT organization's control.  That is very good to know!  

From the post above regarding a locally licensed copy and running a copy on TS, you do only need one license but the local copy must not be Retail or OEM, you don't get TS rights with those versions (to the best of my knowledge).  

Thanks for the info everyone!
I suppose another important thing worth taking away from all this, is that you can seek advice from forums if you want, but in reality you'll NEED clarification from someone certified (i.e. MS themselves or a registered and certified MS license provider) before purchasing anything, and always get it in writing...

As at the end of the day, if you get audited and found to not be licensed correctly, and in your defense said 'MrGuruExpertGuy' (randomly made up name) on EE said it would be ok!", they'd laugh in your face (not literally of course).

I've seen various similar questions, where experts include a disclaimer in their responses to ensure that everyone understands this! :)

Pete
Avatar of hconant

ASKER

Answered my own question