Windows XP
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Outlook, Profiles, and Deep Freeze
Hi folks!
Got kind of an odd situation. I am the systems administrator for a junior college where we have approximately 125 Windows XP Professional SP3 workstations running in a Windows Server 2003 R2 x64 SP2-based Active Directory environment. All of our workstations have the Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise suite available on them.
Also, as both a security measure and a way to simplify maintenance, we use the Deep Freeze software from Faronics so that whenever the computer is rebooted, any and all changes that have been made are wiped away and the computer reverts to the state it was "frozen" in.
So, here's my problem: Although our students generally do not use Outlook on these workstations, we have one class here that actually teaches Outlook and, therefore, requires the students to use it. However, Outlook does not support locating its PST data files on a network share, and when it stores them on the local hard drive, as it is designed to do, they all get wiped away as soon as a computer is rebooted. Removing Deep Freeze from the lab is, unfortunately, not an option as it would open up too many other cans of worms.
So, does anyone have any suggestions? Is there any way to get Outlook to deal with something other than a locally-stored PST file? Or is there a better strategy that anyone can think of for this situation?
Thanks,
Ithizar
Got kind of an odd situation. I am the systems administrator for a junior college where we have approximately 125 Windows XP Professional SP3 workstations running in a Windows Server 2003 R2 x64 SP2-based Active Directory environment. All of our workstations have the Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise suite available on them.
Also, as both a security measure and a way to simplify maintenance, we use the Deep Freeze software from Faronics so that whenever the computer is rebooted, any and all changes that have been made are wiped away and the computer reverts to the state it was "frozen" in.
So, here's my problem: Although our students generally do not use Outlook on these workstations, we have one class here that actually teaches Outlook and, therefore, requires the students to use it. However, Outlook does not support locating its PST data files on a network share, and when it stores them on the local hard drive, as it is designed to do, they all get wiped away as soon as a computer is rebooted. Removing Deep Freeze from the lab is, unfortunately, not an option as it would open up too many other cans of worms.
So, does anyone have any suggestions? Is there any way to get Outlook to deal with something other than a locally-stored PST file? Or is there a better strategy that anyone can think of for this situation?
Thanks,
Ithizar
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One option is to install a terminal server with Outlook just for this classroom.
Another option would be to install additional internal hard drives in the machines and move the pst files to these internal drives.
Another option would be to install additional internal hard drives in the machines and move the pst files to these internal drives.
Could you not back the data files up to a network share just before the students log off and restore them just after they log in? Â Place a batch file on the desktop (so the student is responsible for their files) to do the backup and a line in the login script to do the restore.
I'm pretty sure Deep Freeze offers an option to specify a folder as a safe folder so that it does not get included in the autorestore. This way user's have at least one folder to store their info.
I'd contact the Faronics support and ask them how to specify a folder to be excluded.
I'd contact the Faronics support and ask them how to specify a folder to be excluded.
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Found it, page 82 of the Deep Freeze Enterprise manual.
It's called Thaw Space:
It's called Thaw Space:
ThawSpace is a virtual partition on a computer that can be used to store programs, save files, or
make permanent changes. All files stored in the ThawSpace are saved after a restart, even if the
computer is Frozen.
ThawSpace is only available if it was set to be created in the Deep Freeze Configuration
Administrator.
make permanent changes. All files stored in the ThawSpace are saved after a restart, even if the
computer is Frozen.
ThawSpace is only available if it was set to be created in the Deep Freeze Configuration
Administrator.
You need to create a Thawspace (if you have enterprise version), then junction the folder with the PST files to the thawspace.
You will have to uninstall and reinstall DF to do this.
Read this whitepaper to get some ideas, http://www.deepfreeze.com.au/download/DF_RetainUserData.pdf
Also, you could reimage the machines with a 2nd partition, and store the files there...although that is a last resort but would be required if you don't have enterprise version.
You will have to uninstall and reinstall DF to do this.
Read this whitepaper to get some ideas, http://www.deepfreeze.com.au/download/DF_RetainUserData.pdf
Also, you could reimage the machines with a 2nd partition, and store the files there...although that is a last resort but would be required if you don't have enterprise version.
Thawspace is the "right" way to do this... but I wonder if each of the students in the Outlook class might prefer storing his/her PST file on a thumbdrive that they bring to class with them. Â That way, they don't have to worry that others will look at, or mess with, their PST files.
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All of these suggestions are good, and I'm considering which way to go, but as I thought about it, I realized there is another element to this issue. Protecting the PST file, either through backup and restore or through ThawSpace, will only back up the folder data, correct? That still leaves the issue of how to keep Outlook from losing the user's account settings each time a "frozen" computer is rebooted. I am presuming that Outlook stores that data in the registry, rather than in a file.
Any thoughts on how I'd handle that?
Any thoughts on how I'd handle that?
I can't think of any Outlook account settings that are not stored in the PST file...
Good point. Roaming profiles would take care of that.
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Nope, it is not stored in the registry. You can junction the entire profile to the thawspace, and that will guarantee outlook to work, but that may defeat the purpose of DF.
The profile settings actually live in the registry.
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software
As I've researched this issue, I've seen people advise against simply redirecting Outlook's data folder to a folder that is part of the user's roaming profile, rather than their local profile. And no one here has offered up that option for consideration. Yet that would seem to be the simplest solution to the problem. It would keep the file on a local disk, as Outlook requires, but it would be copied back and forth to the server automatically each time they log on and log off, so their e-mails didn't get wiped out when the computer was rebooted.
Can someone explain why that is an option that is not normally recommended?
Can someone explain why that is an option that is not normally recommended?
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I think a roaming profile would defeat the purpose of DF, as the users would be able to make changes that are saved.
For the purposes of this class they need to save changes. It would make sense to give them a different login or student1, student2... then, when the class is done you delete the profiles and change the passwords for the next students. You can limit whatever settings that need to be limited using group policies for these accounts as well.
In that case, he should just go into his DF console and uninstall DF from all the machines (leaving the seed). Then, make a new DF installer with a thawspace (of a few gigs), then redeploy DF to the machines using that console. Whole thing should take 10 minutes.
Make a script to junction the Outlook folder to the thawspace drive (while the PC is thawed).
Make a script to junction the Outlook folder to the thawspace drive (while the PC is thawed).
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dougstech, why do you favor that approach over storing the PST as part of their roaming profile? As long as their PST files are not so large that it bogs down the login process, it seems to me that the roaming profile method would not only solve the problem of being able to save data, but would also allow them to use Outlook at any computer in the lab, rather than being restricted to the same computer each time. Is there a downside that I am overlooking?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Well, if you paid for enterprise DF, you paid 3x the price for 2 more features, one being the thawspace. It would defeat the purpose of DF entirely to use group policies and roaming profiles.
I'm not sure I'm following you. We already use Deep Freeze and roaming profiles together. I'm not sure how I see that one defeats the purpose of the other. The combination of the two allows users to customize their environment, save data in their personal folders, etc. and have that follow them from computer to computer, while at the same time preventing them from making changes to the local PC outside of their profile folder. A user can have a custom wallpaper or save a file in My Documents, but they can't install an application or delete an important file from the hard drive. I'm not seeing why those two things can't work in tandem.
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My thoughts exactly. It doesn't defeat the purpose...I see it as one of it's uses so you don't have to continually rebuild the OS from users mucking it up. Essentially the same idea of Mac OS X Server's Netboot OS Installs.
Making the user limited keeps them from changing the OS. You can do everything DF does in group policies alone, and save a ton of money. But since you have already spent that money, why not use what you've purchased.
Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point, because I do see many, many benefits to Deep Freeze in our environment, and I don't believe that roaming profiles are defeating those benefits. And, anyway, the purpose of this thread is not to argue about that type of thing anyway. :)
At this point, I'm just trying to understand the pros and cons -- from a usability as well as technical standpoint -- of going the roaming profile route vs. the ThawSpace route, arguments about "defeating the purpose" of DF aside.
Is there any technical reason why using ThawSpace would be preferable to using the roaming profile? Roaming profiles have the obvious advantage that the user can take their e-mail with them to any PC on the network, but for some reason online recommendations seem to suggest steering clear of using them in that way. I'm wondering if that's just to avoid making logins slow due to large PST files, or if there is some other issue.
At this point, I'm just trying to understand the pros and cons -- from a usability as well as technical standpoint -- of going the roaming profile route vs. the ThawSpace route, arguments about "defeating the purpose" of DF aside.
Is there any technical reason why using ThawSpace would be preferable to using the roaming profile? Roaming profiles have the obvious advantage that the user can take their e-mail with them to any PC on the network, but for some reason online recommendations seem to suggest steering clear of using them in that way. I'm wondering if that's just to avoid making logins slow due to large PST files, or if there is some other issue.
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Slow logins will definitely happen if the PST files are large...that's the major drawback.
Why not look at a simpler option such as a login/logout script for this class of users pushed by gpo for their group
somehing like this and then the
net use \\servername\pst share p:
xcopy p:\(name of pst file).pst C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\(na
net use /delete p: /y
then the reverse at logoff
net use \\servername\pst share p:
xcopy C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook(nam
net use /delete p: /y
play with the switches to cover overwrites correctly and you could get even more fancy and copty the nk2 files for the auto fill cache when creating and email
I know it is round peg square hole and all but I am sure a bunch of student PST files are not large for a class unlike exec's or admin staff with 2gb+ pst files I see all too often
somehing like this and then the
net use \\servername\pst share p:
xcopy p:\(name of pst file).pst C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\(na
net use /delete p: /y
then the reverse at logoff
net use \\servername\pst share p:
xcopy C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook(nam
net use /delete p: /y
play with the switches to cover overwrites correctly and you could get even more fancy and copty the nk2 files for the auto fill cache when creating and email
I know it is round peg square hole and all but I am sure a bunch of student PST files are not large for a class unlike exec's or admin staff with 2gb+ pst files I see all too often
"I don't believe that roaming profiles are defeating those benefits."
I dont think so either, but I understand the argument. Witha  Roaming profile, User Based profile changes will not be protected/prevented by DF, which coyuld open the door for viruses, that dont go away by just rebooting. And profile corruption, well, that will happen. Easy enough to recover from though....
It will allow for a protected OS though, as MACHINE (read NOT PROFILE SPECIFIC) changes will be prevented/reverted upon rebooting a DF machine.
renazonse has already made the most vald argument against using a Roaming profile with PST files. It will be a significant delay in loading the PST file on each logon. Roaming profiles don work as well as advertised, plus when you add DF to the mix, you get the idea..........
Not to mention, folders are usually excluded , which might prevent app preferences by being wiped out, since they dont roam. They will be subject to being lost on reboot.....
I dont think so either, but I understand the argument. Witha  Roaming profile, User Based profile changes will not be protected/prevented by DF, which coyuld open the door for viruses, that dont go away by just rebooting. And profile corruption, well, that will happen. Easy enough to recover from though....
It will allow for a protected OS though, as MACHINE (read NOT PROFILE SPECIFIC) changes will be prevented/reverted upon rebooting a DF machine.
renazonse has already made the most vald argument against using a Roaming profile with PST files. It will be a significant delay in loading the PST file on each logon. Roaming profiles don work as well as advertised, plus when you add DF to the mix, you get the idea..........
Not to mention, folders are usually excluded , which might prevent app preferences by being wiped out, since they dont roam. They will be subject to being lost on reboot.....
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>> Â It will be a significant delay in loading the PST file on each logon.
In this case I suspect the PST won't be large. Â Classroom situation. Â How often does this class use the computers and I'm sure they won't be on email all the time.
In this case I suspect the PST won't be large. Â Classroom situation. Â How often does this class use the computers and I'm sure they won't be on email all the time.
Yea, but think about kids forwarding wierd videos and crap.... Never know really....
Ive seen the stuff my kids forward..... Â :)
Ive seen the stuff my kids forward..... Â :)
:) Â True.
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In either case -- roaming profiles or ThawSpace -- is there a group policy that can be used to tell Outlook to look somewhere other than the default location for its PST files, or would each user have to do it manually (or me script it)?
Try this solution: http://mobile.experts-exchange.com/questions/21240807/Changing-location-of-PST-file-script-or-GPO.html
i dont think this can be done with a GP since it's part of the office install but there's an office resource kit that would allow you to change it before office is installed. Â
i dont think this can be done with a GP since it's part of the office install but there's an office resource kit that would allow you to change it before office is installed. Â
Its stored in a Binary format in the registry under the profile. Not easily scriptable once deployed......
Are you using Redirected Folders along with the Roaming Profs?
Are you using Redirected Folders along with the Roaming Profs?
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Yes, we are redirecting My Documents, Application Data, and the user's desktop. However, because Outlook is storing its PST file in the Local Settings folder, it's not being subject to either roaming or folder redirection at this point.
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I will have to look, but that's a good ideA. Are there any other programs that might be using Local Settings that could be negatively impacted by its redirection?
QAT tool bars are the only thing I really ever care to capture in a user profile..... Local Appdata\Microsoft
Most others, simply rebuild on use......
Performance wouldnt be hampered with it though.... Still fully reachable, but you dont want the Temp\TIF files mucking up your storage......
Most others, simply rebuild on use......
Performance wouldnt be hampered with it though.... Still fully reachable, but you dont want the Temp\TIF files mucking up your storage......
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There are things I see online where people, including Microsoft, claim that having PST files stored on a network location, rather than locally, will cause problems with Outlook. Is this typical Microsoft hand-wringing that is not likely to cause any real world problems, or is this actually something I should be concerned about?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Thanks to everyone!
Windows XP
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Microsoft Windows XP is the sixth release of the NT series of operating systems, and was the first to be marketed in a variety of editions: XP Home and XP Professional, designed for business and power users. The advanced features in XP Professional are generally disabled in Home Edition, but are there and can be activated. There were two 64-bit editions, an embedded edition and a tablet edition.