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SBS 2011 media format issues

Posted on 2011-02-13
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Last Modified: 2012-05-11
Here I am ,trying to burn a DVD from my technet sub and lo and behold I discover that the new install image is about 6 or 7 GB (big WIM file).

I've researched and discovered,you need a dual layer DVD to burn the image or a USB boot thumb device.

Ii's about $15 bucks for a thumb drive and a buck for two regular DVD's(which if lost or stolen,cost another buck to replace).

Is there a way to extract the ISO to two dvd's easily for an initial install or have the folks at M$ taken leave of realty again and made it more difficult than usual to install SBS 2011?

Even if you have the dual layer burner,none of the biggies (Dell,HP or Lenovo) ship file servers with a dual layer DVD even as an option.

That means you go out and retrofit a server (voiding the warranty)with a 3rd party add on.

Doesn't M$ get it?
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Question by:pgm554
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by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 34884838
Posting so I can later reply - each time I've tried you've deleted the question and I'm tired of retyping everything I said.
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by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 34884856
Microsoft can't do anything about this.  Exchange is a huge program.  Server 2008 R2 is a huge program... each requiring more than half a standard DVD.  Add the few specific SBS apps add more space.  I suppose they could have issued two disks... but that would just start annoying people - I HATE that 2003 R2 was two disks... invariably, I cannot find one.  

Installing from a flash drive is much faster than installing from DVD.  Given how much my time is worth (and I suspect most people's time) and that you can wipe the drive after you're done using it for other purposes, I'm GRATEFUL MS offers this as an easy option.

Also, why would you download and burn the ISO to a SERVER?  This doesn't make sense to me... Download it to your desktop and burn it there.  Dual Layer DVDs are not that expensive (unless you buy at staples or some place like that).  2008 Server (pre-R2) required a DVD drive to install anyway... I've never encountered a DVD drive that didn't read dual layer disks and it's been at least 5 if not 10-15 years since a drive was made that could burn DVDs and COULDN'T burn dual layer disks.

I can't say for HP (but it wouldn't surprise me - their practices and policies have often bothered me), but you can replace the DVD drive on a Dell Server with no issue - the only thing - the DVD drive is no longer under Dell's warranty - the rest of the server is.  Or you can use a USB DVD drive.

Sorry, but to me, this is on the level of me complaining about the placement of the FN key on laptop keyboards (it should be to the RIGHT of the LEFT control key, NOT on the LEFT!!!!).
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by:pgm554
ID: 34884858
I had to clear a few typo's ,sorry (SBS 2001 anyone?)
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by:pgm554
ID: 34884986
Look ,it not supposed to cost my clients more unnecessary time and materials because M$ refuses to do a format change.

If I purchase an OEM copy (or my customer does ) at the local Fry's or whatever it's going to come in a non standard format that will require another hour or two of time for me to order more hardware and install it.

I want to configure a server ,have it shipped complete and have not Mickey Mouse it.

As for service,I paid for an on-site warranty that covers all of my customers hardware.
I shouldn't have to nickel and dime them because of an MS marketing faux pax .

Having more than one disk or two looks like it's going to be around for a while as you do need a repair disk too.

Your analogy about the F1 key makes no sense in that the position of the key doesn't cost my customer time and more money because MS didn't foresee this as being an issue.

They want to ship a USB key and DVD  in the media kit,then fine,but in the mean time ,pragmatically it's more hoops I(and my customers) have to jump through.

SBS 2011 is (in my opinion) still beta even though it supposed to be shipping.
You can't buy it pre installed from Dell or HP yet and none of the software houses(NewEgg) are shipping it either.

Beta is for bugs,this to me (SBS specialist) is a bug in marketing.

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by:pgm554
ID: 34885032
Looks like they can split a WIM file,so why not give us a choice?

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721885%28WS.10%29.aspx
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by:Lee W, MVP
ID: 34885228
YOU and I are not the SBS target market.  The small business who is going to order a server from Dell with the system pre-installed is the target market. You might argue (and I would agree with you) that small businesses should not be left to their own devices to install a crucial part of their business infrastructure.  

> Look ,it not supposed to cost my clients more unnecessary time
> and materials because M$ refuses to do a format change.
What do you mean?  How is Microsoft refusing to do a format change?

> If I purchase an OEM copy (or my customer does ) at the local Fry's or whatever
> it's going to come in a non standard format that will require another hour or two
> of time for me to order more hardware and install it.
How?  If you buy an OEM copy it is SUPPOSED to be installed on hardware to begin with or come with NEW hardware - you CANNOT legally install it on an old system that has already had an operating system.  Further, SBS 2008 required a DVD drive... Have you really found a semi-modern server that came with a DVD drive that doesn't support Reading dual layer DVDs?  I haven't.  Again, I can't think of EVER encountering a DVD drive that wouldn't read a dual layer disk.  Dual Layer has been part of the spec since DVD was released as far as I know.  So if you buy ANY copy of SBS 2011 (or 2008) you get media... EXCEPT for Volume License - which you have to order the media separately (but technically, the media is the same as TechNet and MSDN downloadable media, so you could just download that media and install).

> I want to configure a server ,have it shipped complete and have not Mickey Mouse it.

> As for service,I paid for an on-site warranty that covers all of my customers hardware.
> I shouldn't have to nickel and dime them because of an MS marketing faux pax .
Don't know about you, but I've been ordering all my servers (and my client's servers) with DVD drives for at least the last 5 years.  And servers older than that should be replaced, not used for SBS even if, sans DVD drive, they are compatible.  But even if you haven't, I carry a USB DVD drive with me.  On the off chance I come across a server without a DVD drive, I use my own.  And I don't charge the client for it.

To this point though, we are debating things that were NOT part of your original question - your original question asked how to burn an ISO larger than 4.5 GB to a DVD and cited a lack of burners capable of doing so on your server(s).

> Having more than one disk or two looks like it's going to be around for a while as you do need a repair disk too.
Fair point... SBS comes with repair disks... but those are separate media you can download if you must (2.5 GB).

> Your analogy about the F1 key makes no sense in that the position of
> the key doesn't cost my customer time and more money because MS
> didn't foresee this as being an issue.
I disagree.  Every mistyped keystroke is time.  And since time is money, it does cost your customer.  Further, it is your choice to schedule an install before you have the media (assuming you're using a volume license).  Further, EVERY new OS has new requirements... SBS 2008 requires 4 GB of RAM minimum.  And SBS 2011 won't install with less (and recommended minimum is 8 GB).  That's more money.  When you want to go to a new system, you have to have sufficiently new hardware OR upgrade that hardware.  Requiring a DVD drive is not a new requirement.  Requiring you to use a dual layer disk

> They want to ship a USB key and DVD  in the media kit,then fine,but in
> the mean time ,pragmatically it's more hoops I(and my customers) have
> to jump through.
Not if you do like an AVERAGE customer and use the media that came with the server and/or order a volume license kit (which ships free to the customer).  Again, this is only a problem when you are impatient and try downloading ISOs and/or you want to install on a server that is likely too old to run the product effectively.  Keep in mind, one of Dell's lowest end servers - the T110 doesn't even include an option for a CD drive.  I don't know when that changed... but DVD drives have been options for YEARS.

> SBS 2011 is (in my opinion) still beta even though it supposed to be shipping.
> You can't buy it pre installed from Dell or HP yet and none of the software
> houses(NewEgg) are shipping it either.
So you're saying they should press the CDs instantly and magically transport it to the vendors the instant they consider it final?  (OK, I know you're not saying that specifically) That's unrealistic.  If you consider it beta, why are you trying to install it at clients and before the system is available pre-installed?  Let's put it this way - the BITS that are going to be installed on the systems from Dell, HP and others, and the bits that you get in the box when you buy it retail or order it from Volume Licensing are EXACTLY THE SAME as the ones you are downloading from TechNet (well the OEM build may be slightly different as it IS an OEM build but 99.9% of the files will be the same).

> Beta is for bugs,this to me (SBS specialist) is a bug in marketing.
You are, of course, completely entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion, this is not a bug or a slight to the consultant and/or consumer - it is the evolution of the product.  Almost every new product will have additional requirements from the one before it.  That's just how technology works.  Because the hardware keeps improving, the software's requirements keep growing - efficient and smaller code is nice... in an ideal world, SBS wouldn't be so big - nor would anything else.  Microsoft DID try that a little with Vista and Win7 - Win7 is, I'm almost certain, SLIGHTLY SMALLER than Vista in terms of total code.

Yes, you can split WIMs... and MAYBE that would have been a nice idea... but think about it - Downloadable media IS a convenience.  It may be one we've come to expect, but there's no reason MS HAS to do it.  But the only good reason to do it is to fit it on 10 CDs... which would be ridiculous in my opinion.

I'll tell you as a consultant who installs many SBS systems myself, I fully expect to use a flash drive for the install.  It takes about 15 minutes to setup from a downloaded ISO and it installs MUCH faster than it would from a DVD - saving myself and my client serious time.  If you prefer to install from DVD, that's your option... when I propose installs, I'll be able to propose one that saves at least 30-60 minutes in install time over yours which may mean the difference between you getting the job and me getting the job.

You can have the last word if you like or ask me to respond and I'll continue debating.
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by:Rob Williams
ID: 34885233
The same complaints existed when Microsoft started publishing applications on CD's and discontinued floppy disks, and then again when put on DVD's and CD's were discontinued. I am afraid we will constantly need to adapt.

Copying to a USB allows for a much faster install. I would also suggeste that more than 1/2 of SBS servers are now installed in virtual invironments where the iso can be directly mounted.
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by:pgm554
ID: 34885414
>Further, SBS 2008 required a DVD drive.
But not a dual layer and a regular DVD drive will not read a dual layer.
Just tried it and it does not work.

We seem to have a disconnect as to whether it's DVD (4.7 gig) and dual layer (8.4gig).
I just want a regular DVD format that I can burn.

As for OEM,MS changes it's mind and looks the other way depending upon which way the wind blows.

Remember all of the pre req's to buy a "legal" OEM copy of windows in the past?

You used to have to buy a new system,then CPU/mobo ,then just a hard drive.
They just  want to sell product,and if you move to the next release,that's all they want.

SBS 2011 looks interesting,I saw the MS preview at SMB Nation last year,but got misinformation from the presenters as to how MS was going to proceed in terms of features and support.

I've just started getting used to SBS 2008 and what  does and does not work.
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Lee W, MVP earned 125 total points
ID: 34885470
> But not a dual layer and a regular DVD drive will not read a dual layer.
> Just tried it and it does not work.
More likely, the media you used is not compatible.  

As per the second to last paragraph of section 1.18 of the following link:
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
"The DVD specification requires that players and drives read dual-layer discs. There are very few units that have problems with dual-layer discs--this is a design flaw and should be corrected for free by the manufacturer. Some discs are designed with a "seamless layer change" that technically goes beyond what the DVD spec allows. This causes problems on a few older players."
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by:pgm554
ID: 34885585
Right now regular DVD is HP 400c.
Pretty solid DVD writer.
My new writer is Memorex (dual layer) with Kodak media dual layer DVD

I just booted a Dell Poweedge with the new DVD SBS 2011

You have enlightened me on the spec,I was under the impression I needed to replace the drives (a la Blu Ray) with a dual layer DVD.

thanks
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by:wtc30
ID: 35138024
microsoft sends the dvd's to you for free if you select that option on the website. why burn them.
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