Office 2010 gets Access Denied saving files

SBS2008, patched up to date. A shared folder with loads of subfolders has permissions set for a user group so that they may open and change/save files, but cannot delete the files or folders, or move files or folders.

The user group has Read & Execute, Read & Write permissions only. All the clients are Win 7 or XP with Office 2003. This works.

New PCs with Office 2010 cannot save files (Word & Excel). They get an error message "Access Denied. Contact Your Administrator".

Seems to be an Office 2010 issue, as they can open Word docs in Wordpad and save them OK.

If I give the user group the Modify permission then they can save OK, but can also move & delete files.

Can anyone suggest why Office 2010 would cause this behaviour?
snooflehammerAsked:
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Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasyConnect With a Mentor Principal ConsultantCommented:
The problem has to do with how Office 2007 and later versions handles the temp files it creates during document editing.  If you've denied "modify" for users, I would suspect that you might have a bunch of .tmp files scattered around your shared folder because they can't be deleted automatically the way they are supposed to.  (the temp files that begin with ~ are system files which usually ARE deleted automatically though).  

Also, I would suspect that you might have trouble creating and saving a NEW document (especially an Excel doc) using Office 2003, however you CAN modify and save an existing document with Office 2003.

It seems to me that trying to prevent anyone from moving or deleting files from a directory that they are also allowed to write to is your primary problem.  I wonder why you are wanting to prevent this, because allowing someone to write to that directory would allow them to fully change a document or even save a blank document over the one that's already there effectively doing the same thing as moving or deleting it.  Have you had this problem in the past?  

There is something you can do so you don't have to worry about these things anymore:  Make sure that Shadow Copies are enabled on drive containing the shared folder.  This way with default shadow copy settings users can recover previous versions of any document changed within the last 30 days.  Or by looking at the previous version of the parent folder, any document moved within the last 30 days can be restored to it's rightful location.

Jeff
TechSoEasy



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connectexCommented:
Sounds like it's creating a temporary file. It could be creating a file under a temporary name and then renaming it once the save/update completes. This is a safer way as it doesn't overwrite the original file until it's sure the new content has been saved. But it doesn't work in locked down folders.
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connectexCommented:
You can confirm this behavior by using Sysinternals Process Monitor to review the application file calls.
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snooflehammerAuthor Commented:
Sounds like you'r eon the money, but do you know how to stop this behaviour?
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connectexCommented:
Unless Microsoft has an option or registry change that resets it back to how older versions of Office do it, I doubt you can. I'm not aware of any way off hand. Like I mentioned saving to a temp file is "safer' and most people would prefer safer.
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connectexCommented:
I foudn this article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/211632

It says:

Word gains significant performance speed by placing the temporary file in the same directory as the saved file. If Word placed the temporary file elsewhere, it would have to use the MS-DOS COPY command to move the temporary file from the other directory to the saved location. By leaving the temporary file in the same directory as the saved document file, Word can use the MS-DOS MOVE command to quickly designate the temporary file as the saved document.
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snooflehammerAuthor Commented:
Thanks, but I don't see how this helps resolve the issue, i.e. I need to prevent moves & deletions while allowing saves
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connectexCommented:
From what I read they claim it's a hard coded to use the final save location. So I really doubt there's a way to change it. You'd have to complain to Microsoft about it. And even if they said ok, it would take a while for them to fix it. I think you'll have to change your rights settings or avoid Office 2010.
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Cats_EyeCommented:
Ok, this may sound strange but I had the same thing but it's gone now.  What happened is, my PC got struck by lightning.  My hard drive was fine so I put it into a case.   I then had to "Take Ownership" of the files.

Moved the files onto new PC and took ownership again.  Not had a problem since!
I can only think that is what sorted it out.  Perhaps I am wrong.  But I don't think there is any harm in trying it ;-)

I'm running Windows 7 Pro with Office 2010 with all updates installed :)
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snooflehammerAuthor Commented:
OK. So let me get this straight: You want me to get the Small Business Server 2008 box struck by lightning, and go from there? And that will fix the permissions so that files can't be deleted, but temp files can be?

Excellent.

I'm just off to put the server on the roof, as there's some weather rolling in...
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connectexCommented:
Well, he mentioned taking ownership of the files. But owner is allowed to do anything to the files so they'd be able to delete or rename them too.
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Cats_EyeCommented:
Oops.  My bad.  Apologies
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wylie_ukCommented:
alow owner/creator the permision to delete files from this folder only. this wil solve your issue

the downside is that users can delete file they have created (but only their files and not other peoples)
but to me it makes good sense to have it this way.
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connectexCommented:
But based on my post 34903970 this means that people will only be able to edit their own files. Not one that was already created by another user. That's not going to be of much for a folder shared with several users.
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wylie_ukCommented:
negative

leave all the other security in place so people can edit thier own files and other peoples, and just add owner/creator can del files to the mix


so then people can create files and del the files they create, and also edit other peoples but not del other peoples.
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snooflehammerAuthor Commented:
Creator/Owener already has Full Control. Still have original problem, i.e. I need to prevent moves & deletions while allowing saves
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connectexCommented:
I think your fighting a losing battle. I advised earlier to less the rights or avoid Office 2010 installations. Another option is to have a staging area with more rights and then move the files to the final area at the end of the day.
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wylie_ukCommented:
ok..... bizarre.. open a word document, go find the temp file, look at the security and find out who it lists as the current owner.
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snooflehammerAuthor Commented:
The temp file list all the users of the folder EXCEPT Creator/Owner - WTF?
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wylie_ukCommented:
on file

properties>security>advanced>owner tab>current owner field.
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Jeffrey Kane - TechSoEasyPrincipal ConsultantCommented:
snooflehammer never responded to my comment.  I believe I effectively summarized the situation and provided a viable solution.

Jeff
TechSoEasy
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LeeTutorretiredCommented:
This question has been classified as abandoned and is being closed as part of the Cleanup Program. See my comment at the end of the question for more details.
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