DCS12
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System i skipping directly to V7R1
I have a Model 800 running V5R2 and looking to get a new Power7 box with 7.1 Mainly the only thing that will be moved over is the home grown software. Mostly all RPGLE and CLP programs and a few RPG. We are being told that we can not skip directly to 7.1 and I am looking for some more counsel.
We did a test and restored the data and program libraries directly to a i5 520 running version 6.1 and everything restored and worked great.
Let me know if you need anymore information.
Thanks,
We did a test and restored the data and program libraries directly to a i5 520 running version 6.1 and everything restored and worked great.
Let me know if you need anymore information.
Thanks,
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If user profiles aren't being saved/restored (and therefore authorities), there shouldn't be much problem with saving/restoring basic libraries.
With both systems sitting on a local network, it seems probable that this can be a fairly painless process.
When hearing about migrations, I tend to see more complex scenarios. (I'm comfortable saying that Gary does, too.)
Tom
With both systems sitting on a local network, it seems probable that this can be a fairly painless process.
When hearing about migrations, I tend to see more complex scenarios. (I'm comfortable saying that Gary does, too.)
Tom
I understand you want someone to say "Don't worry about following the proper migration process - since you have a simple migration it should work just fine."
I just can't tell you that. I have no idea what functions, utilities, and types of system objects you use. I ahve no idea about your coding and compiling practices. I have no idea if you use utilities or LPPs that don't exist or run under V7R1.
That's why you need to follow the migration roadmap: to identify any possible problems before it is too late.
A simple backup/restore might work. Also might not. Needless to say, the simpler the migration, the better chance that you won't have a disaster on your hands if you skip steps.
Either way, IBM doesn't support a direct migration, so you won't get much help from them if something goes wrong if you don't follow the documented migration process.
If the libraries restored and objects and programs converted properly to V6R1, there's a chance the same will happen in V7R1. The only way for you to know is to test it, however.
Over the years, I've done countless installs, upgrades, restores, and migrations, and the lesson that I've learned is to FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. Ignore IBM's migration process at your own peril.
- Gary Patterson
I just can't tell you that. I have no idea what functions, utilities, and types of system objects you use. I ahve no idea about your coding and compiling practices. I have no idea if you use utilities or LPPs that don't exist or run under V7R1.
That's why you need to follow the migration roadmap: to identify any possible problems before it is too late.
A simple backup/restore might work. Also might not. Needless to say, the simpler the migration, the better chance that you won't have a disaster on your hands if you skip steps.
Either way, IBM doesn't support a direct migration, so you won't get much help from them if something goes wrong if you don't follow the documented migration process.
If the libraries restored and objects and programs converted properly to V6R1, there's a chance the same will happen in V7R1. The only way for you to know is to test it, however.
Over the years, I've done countless installs, upgrades, restores, and migrations, and the lesson that I've learned is to FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. Ignore IBM's migration process at your own peril.
- Gary Patterson
Gary's concerns are completely valid, though the same concerns will exist no matter what your migration path is. If utilities or LPPs or whatever are used and needed at V5R2, they'll also be needed at V5R3 or anywhere else up the path.
What you don't restore (or don't install) won't be there after the migration.
Programs that won't convert for i 6.1 won't convert for i 7.1. Programs that have observability or that were compiled at V5R1 or later should be okay. If you have the source and can recompile (assuming the compilers are installed), even unconvertible programs can be handled.
But none of that relieves the need to read the Memo to Users for each release and to attend to any programming changes needed for the new release. A number of difficult issues arose during V5R3 and V5R4 over how CCSIDs were enforced and handled for IFS streamfiles for example. You'd have to handle those if you migrated to V5R4 rather than i 7.1 and you'll need to handle them the same ways if you go straight to i 7.1.
Personally, I normally wouldn't want to do it any way but through V5R4 as an intermediate step. But having both systems available for any extended period while not needing security data (profiles/authorities/owne
Do not plan to switch from V5R2 for a while. Expect to do the same set of migration steps at least twice -- don't be surprised if at least your data libraries must be deleted and brought over again with fresh data and possibly some changed programs. Record your steps with the intention of doing them again. (Appoint a journalist.)
Given both systems availability, there is no reason not to run a trial migration as soon as it can be done. There is no way you will find out faster where the problems might be.
In the meantime, read the relevant documentation on the releases (the Memos in particular), and create base plan steps from the migration guide.
Tom
What you don't restore (or don't install) won't be there after the migration.
Programs that won't convert for i 6.1 won't convert for i 7.1. Programs that have observability or that were compiled at V5R1 or later should be okay. If you have the source and can recompile (assuming the compilers are installed), even unconvertible programs can be handled.
But none of that relieves the need to read the Memo to Users for each release and to attend to any programming changes needed for the new release. A number of difficult issues arose during V5R3 and V5R4 over how CCSIDs were enforced and handled for IFS streamfiles for example. You'd have to handle those if you migrated to V5R4 rather than i 7.1 and you'll need to handle them the same ways if you go straight to i 7.1.
Personally, I normally wouldn't want to do it any way but through V5R4 as an intermediate step. But having both systems available for any extended period while not needing security data (profiles/authorities/owne
Do not plan to switch from V5R2 for a while. Expect to do the same set of migration steps at least twice -- don't be surprised if at least your data libraries must be deleted and brought over again with fresh data and possibly some changed programs. Record your steps with the intention of doing them again. (Appoint a journalist.)
Given both systems availability, there is no reason not to run a trial migration as soon as it can be done. There is no way you will find out faster where the problems might be.
In the meantime, read the relevant documentation on the releases (the Memos in particular), and create base plan steps from the migration guide.
Tom
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ASKER
Thanks for all your input. I should have been more clear on my question. I wasn't asking how I should do the move. Just if it was possible to restore these libraries. The one quoting us the new machine is adamant on telling us this is not possible because of the Power7 processor. I just could not fully believe that. I'm sure we will be on the old box for awhile until everything is fully tested out on the new one.
Thanks
Thanks
I'm with the others on this, the best choice is the path Gary laid out.
Gary is right on the fact that a lot of bad things can happen if you don't follow the supported procedures. There are so many gotcha's migrating to such a different version you will have to be ready for problems. You will have issues with a migration to V5R4 on the 800 if you don't have 17gb load sources on the 800, and other things.
As I read you message, you are using a new V7R1 box and don't have to upgrade the 800 to V7R1. If that is true and all you have is home grown stuff and it restored to a V6R1 box ok, move it to V7R1 box, recreate your user ID's and go from there to get it right -- sounds like a viable way to proceed too. You might be just over thinking this. If you have the time, just make sure you have a full backup of the V7R1 box bare of all user data and experiment a little.
However often it's almost impossible to do it right. If you "absolutely can't do it the supported way", here is an option that does have some gotcha's... NOTHING BELOW IS RECOMMENDED IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NEW V7R1 BOX .... I have been doing this 20+ years, I would never recommend you attempt anything like this on a production box upgrade. With a new box, you can always rebuild if it doesn't work right.
==========================
Get a copy of the Backup & Recovery Guide for V4R5
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/DOCNUM/SC41-5304
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=nas113487f07b117988c862576ba0073fccc (APAR)
It also only works with boxes that have no user data on them, just OS and LIC PGM's.. so what I do is make a full system backup of the bare box so I can rebuild and retry if necessary.
-- in the guide, you will find a procedure #19 for migrating to a new box with a newer operating system. It's not supported any more, gone in V5 and beyond, but it will handle users directory entry's, folders, IFS, etc.. it will "not" resolve issues with software that is not observable, unsupported upgrade paths for 3rd party software, etc... but it will get you users & data over to the new box. The process has issues with Web instances, on V6R1 you need to bring over 2 HTTP files from a working V6R1box as it seems to corrupt them, so it's not fool proof by a long shot. There is an APAR on the HTTP stuff. Also I have had problems with back level on 5761SS1 Option #3 -- Extended Support, be ready to re-install that after you are done. Don't restore anything that begins with a "Q" to the QGPL either, unless you do it each obj separately and know what they are.
However this check list has worked for me numerous times, but I also have 20+ years experience in migrating unsupported operating systems to new hardware. My customer base is such that I have to do this quite often. As a caveat, I have not done a V7R1 with it, only up to V6R1 including a V5R1 to V6R1 migration 2 weeks ago. You mileage may vary and you might not have a sufficient skill set, but if you need to do it that way - the documented procedure I gave will give a big head start.
Michael Cody
Gary is right on the fact that a lot of bad things can happen if you don't follow the supported procedures. There are so many gotcha's migrating to such a different version you will have to be ready for problems. You will have issues with a migration to V5R4 on the 800 if you don't have 17gb load sources on the 800, and other things.
As I read you message, you are using a new V7R1 box and don't have to upgrade the 800 to V7R1. If that is true and all you have is home grown stuff and it restored to a V6R1 box ok, move it to V7R1 box, recreate your user ID's and go from there to get it right -- sounds like a viable way to proceed too. You might be just over thinking this. If you have the time, just make sure you have a full backup of the V7R1 box bare of all user data and experiment a little.
However often it's almost impossible to do it right. If you "absolutely can't do it the supported way", here is an option that does have some gotcha's... NOTHING BELOW IS RECOMMENDED IF YOU DON'T HAVE A NEW V7R1 BOX .... I have been doing this 20+ years, I would never recommend you attempt anything like this on a production box upgrade. With a new box, you can always rebuild if it doesn't work right.
==========================
Get a copy of the Backup & Recovery Guide for V4R5
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/DOCNUM/SC41-5304
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=nas113487f07b117988c862576ba0073fccc (APAR)
It also only works with boxes that have no user data on them, just OS and LIC PGM's.. so what I do is make a full system backup of the bare box so I can rebuild and retry if necessary.
-- in the guide, you will find a procedure #19 for migrating to a new box with a newer operating system. It's not supported any more, gone in V5 and beyond, but it will handle users directory entry's, folders, IFS, etc.. it will "not" resolve issues with software that is not observable, unsupported upgrade paths for 3rd party software, etc... but it will get you users & data over to the new box. The process has issues with Web instances, on V6R1 you need to bring over 2 HTTP files from a working V6R1box as it seems to corrupt them, so it's not fool proof by a long shot. There is an APAR on the HTTP stuff. Also I have had problems with back level on 5761SS1 Option #3 -- Extended Support, be ready to re-install that after you are done. Don't restore anything that begins with a "Q" to the QGPL either, unless you do it each obj separately and know what they are.
However this check list has worked for me numerous times, but I also have 20+ years experience in migrating unsupported operating systems to new hardware. My customer base is such that I have to do this quite often. As a caveat, I have not done a V7R1 with it, only up to V6R1 including a V5R1 to V6R1 migration 2 weeks ago. You mileage may vary and you might not have a sufficient skill set, but if you need to do it that way - the documented procedure I gave will give a big head start.
Michael Cody
We did a test and restored the data and program libraries directly to a i5 520 running version 6.1 and everything restored and worked great.
BTW, you didn't happen to resave the program libraries after programs ran on 6.1, did you?
Tom
BTW, you didn't happen to resave the program libraries after programs ran on 6.1, did you?
Tom
ASKER
I did to save files, but not tape.
I did to save files, but not tape.
If those savefiles are available, they might be your best starting point for restores. I'm not clear on whether the 'tape' reference means the savefiles went away with 6.1. But if you could get everything running acceptably on i 6.1, it should be a similar bit of work on i 7.1.
Tom
If those savefiles are available, they might be your best starting point for restores. I'm not clear on whether the 'tape' reference means the savefiles went away with 6.1. But if you could get everything running acceptably on i 6.1, it should be a similar bit of work on i 7.1.
Tom
ASKER
No security is being migrated, we are entering in the user profiles as there are only 10. Nothing is encrypted and yes we will have both systems once we get the new one. The old one is not going anywhere.