Avatar of jgiannerini
jgiannerini
 asked on

Backup Exec job Fail with the following error Final error: 0xa0008703 - Job failed running its test run. See logfile for details.

Hello Experts,

I have a windows 2k3 server running Veritas Back up Exec 9.1, ok I know it's a very old version, but I'm new at company and I already proposed to change it...

But while it doesn't happen I have to live with this.

Here we have a job and it was running well until yesterday, when the server logged this error message:
Job started     : Friday, August 05, 2011 8:53:36 AMJob ended       : Friday, August 05, 2011 9:03:00 AMFinal error: 0xa0008703 - Job failed running its test run. See logfile for details.
Final error category: Job ErrorsCompleted status: Failed

I think it's a media error because other log shows me this information:

Media CheckOnline media check   : Insufficient online or nearline media is available to start job.Overwrite media check: There is no media online or nearline that can be overwritten or the job has been marked append/terminate.Media check status   : Failed

I checked another media and I got the same error message.
I don't know why but most of my medias have compression ratio of 2.61:1 and this media has just 1:1, is there a way to increase this value?

Why just this media has a different compression ratio?

Media Type 4MM
Device: PV-100T-DAT72

I appreciate any help.
Regards,
Juliano
Storage

Avatar of undefined
Last Comment
jgiannerini

8/22/2022 - Mon
pjam

Couple of thoughts:
I take it this PV-100T-DAT72 came with a Dell server.  You did not mention the model.  I would look at the server and see if there was a tape testing utility uner W2k3.
The tape is old enough it may have given up the ghost.
Are you using a good cleaning tape at least weekly?
David_Hagerman

Has the amount of data increased over the total amount the tape can handle when compressed?
Also confirm that you are still selecting hardware compression on your backup
jgiannerini

ASKER
take a look at this

I always use tape clean... today I did.

I think it's not a windows problem because I could run a job with some files, the problem is when I try to run a job which backup very large contents...
dell-sa2-tape-driver.png
Experts Exchange is like having an extremely knowledgeable team sitting and waiting for your call. Couldn't do my job half as well as I do without it!
James Murphy
jgiannerini

ASKER
I use hardware compression and the amount of that is bigger than the tape can deal, because compression rate is 0.98:1 and other media has 2:1 compression rate...
David_Hagerman

What is the maximum amount of data you have been able to write to the tapes?
Can you try to write just short of the maximum amount and see if your compression changes.
What type of data are you trying to backup, perhaps it is compressed data already and so the tape can't do anymore that is already done?
jgiannerini

ASKER
I'm attaching these pics of two tapes...
One is the media I'm trying to use and another is a media used this week...
take a look at the compression ratio and total capacity written in media...

the amount of data is around 48gb and media total capacity is 35gb... with compression it should be possible...
right-media.png
old-media.png
Get an unlimited membership to EE for less than $4 a week.
Unlimited question asking, solutions, articles and more.
jgiannerini

ASKER
The amount is 48GB
It's normal data, documents, word, excel, network share folders... and data isn't already compressed.

I've tried to write short data and it works.
jgiannerini

ASKER
test run result

Device                   : DELL 3
Online append capacity   : 35,919 MB
Online overwrite capacity: 35,923 MB
Total append capacity    : 798,965 MB
Total overwrite capacity : 1,352,004 MB
Capacity check status    : Failed
Miscellaneous            :

David_Hagerman

are you getting any errors in the event log?
This is the best money I have ever spent. I cannot not tell you how many times these folks have saved my bacon. I learn so much from the contributors.
rwheeler23
jgiannerini

ASKER
Backup Exec Alert: Job Failed
(Server: "SA2") (Job: "TestRun 0006") TestRun 0006 -- The job failed with the following error: Job failed running its test run. See logfile for details.

David_Hagerman

can you post the log file as well
jgiannerini

ASKER
is this log you need?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[3340] 12/05/10 13:06:32 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[0440] 12/05/10 13:06:34 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[0440] 12/05/10 13:06:46 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   A16J"
                     Secondary Inquiry       "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   HV04WND"
                     Device Flags            SCSI, SN(TYPE 0)
                     Device State            3, Online

                     Device IDs              1007, {025A0F37-450F-46CC-A597-380904A22597}
                     Device Name             "DELL 3"
                     Device Type             16785408, "4MM 8K (32K,10,7,E)"
                     Device Features         0x0009FB7F
                     Device Element          0, 0

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[0440] 12/05/10 13:06:46 Device Discovery End:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[5368] 05/24/11 17:55:16 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[5376] 05/24/11 17:55:17 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[5376] 05/24/11 17:55:26 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   A16J"
                     Secondary Inquiry       "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   HV04WND"
                     Device Flags            SCSI, SN(TYPE 0)
                     Device State            3, Online

                     Device IDs              1007, {025A0F37-450F-46CC-A597-380904A22597}
                     Device Name             "DELL 3"
                     Device Type             16785408, "4MM 8K (32K,10,7,E)"
                     Device Features         0x0009FB7F
                     Device Element          0, 0

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[5376] 05/24/11 17:55:26 Device Discovery End:

[5368] 07/15/11 09:34:20 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[5772] 07/15/11 09:41:49 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[3928] 07/15/11 09:41:49 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[3928] 07/15/11 09:41:59 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   A16J"
                     Secondary Inquiry       "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   HV04WND"
                     Device Flags            SCSI, SN(TYPE 0)
                     Device State            3, Online

                     Device IDs              1007, {025A0F37-450F-46CC-A597-380904A22597}
                     Device Name             "DELL 3"
                     Device Type             16785408, "4MM 8K (32K,10,7,E)"
                     Device Features         0x0009FB7F
                     Device Element          0, 0

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[3928] 07/15/11 09:41:59 Device Discovery End:

[5772] 08/04/11 17:56:13 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[7044] 08/04/11 17:56:27 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[0860] 08/04/11 17:56:38 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[7044] 08/04/11 18:05:10 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[8080] 08/04/11 18:05:12 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[7640] 08/04/11 18:05:23 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[8080] 08/04/11 18:08:53 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[6696] 08/04/11 18:10:06 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[6984] 08/04/11 18:10:17 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[6696] 08/04/11 18:12:29 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[6700] 08/04/11 18:14:52 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[5596] 08/04/11 18:15:03 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[5596] 08/04/11 18:35:09 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           ""
                     Device Flags            SCSI
                     Device State            1, Offline, ERROR = 0x00000006 (ERROR_INVALID_HANDLE)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[5596] 08/04/11 18:35:09 Device Discovery End:

[6700] 08/04/11 23:00:10 Adamm Log Stopped!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[3992] 08/05/11 08:23:47 Adamm Log Started! ("SA2", 1000, {21F039D6-AA1E-46C0-B32B-EA6504112275})

Adamm Info: Version 9.1, Build 4691

OS Info: Windows NT 5.2, Build 3790, Service Pack 2

Database Driver Info: SQLSRV32.DLL, 03.86.3959
Database Server Info: Server Name = "SA2", Active Node = ""
Database Connection String: "DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=SA2\BkupExec;DATABASE=BEDB"

Shared Storage Authorization: No
TSM Authorization: No
Library Expansion Options: 1

[2972] 08/05/11 08:23:49 Device Registry:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0000:0000:0000:0000  "atapi", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0001:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0000:0000  "adpu320", (Port Driver)

0002:0000:0006:0000  "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J", (Tape Device), "\\.\Tape0"

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0003:0000:0000:0000  "lsi_sas", (Port Driver)

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[2972] 08/05/11 08:23:59 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   A16J"
                     Secondary Inquiry       "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           "DELL    PV-100T-DAT72   HV04WND"
                     Device Flags            SCSI, SN(TYPE 0)
                     Device State            3, Online

                     Device IDs              1007, {025A0F37-450F-46CC-A597-380904A22597}
                     Device Name             "DELL 3"
                     Device Type             16785408, "4MM 8K (32K,10,7,E)"
                     Device Features         0x0009FB7F
                     Device Element          0, 0

-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[2972] 08/05/11 08:23:59 Device Discovery End:

Open in new window

Get an unlimited membership to EE for less than $4 a week.
Unlimited question asking, solutions, articles and more.
David_Hagerman

This appears to be the tape log, on the error you posted earlier refered to the job log which will tells us what was going on,

"(Server: "SA2") (Job: "TestRun 0006") TestRun 0006 -- The job failed with the following error: Job failed running its test run. See LOGFILE for details."

but the tape log refers to your tape as being offline @ 18:35 which appear to be in your backup window.

[5596] 08/04/11 18:35:09 Device Discovery:

Scsi Address
Prt :Bus :Tar :Lun   Attributes
-------------------  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0002:0000:0006:0000  Device Name             "\\.\Tape0"
                     Primary Inquiry         "SEAGATE DAT    DAT72-052A16J"
                     Serial Number           ""
                     Device Flags            SCSI
                     Device State            1, Offline, ERROR = 0x00000006 (ERROR_INVALID_HANDLE)
jgiannerini

ASKER
It was off line yesterday, because I got another problem, but I reboot server and today is working well.

I'm testing a job right now and it's working, but I'm backing up few contents.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
jgiannerini

Log in or sign up to see answer
Become an EE member today7-DAY FREE TRIAL
Members can start a 7-Day Free trial then enjoy unlimited access to the platform
Sign up - Free for 7 days
or
Learn why we charge membership fees
We get it - no one likes a content blocker. Take one extra minute and find out why we block content.
Not exactly the question you had in mind?
Sign up for an EE membership and get your own personalized solution. With an EE membership, you can ask unlimited troubleshooting, research, or opinion questions.
ask a question
jgiannerini

ASKER
Test run jobs will fail with a media capacity error when the total byte count of the backup job exceeds the native capacity of the media. Since the test run job has no way of calculating the compression ratio of the files being backed up (as the compression ratio will vary greatly depending on the type of file that is attempting to be compressed and the type of compression used) the test run job uses the native capacity of the media as a basis of its test. If hardware or software compression is used during the backup job, the backup will complete successfully if all the data is able to fit on the tape media, if no other errors are encountered.
All of life is about relationships, and EE has made a viirtual community a real community. It lifts everyone's boat
William Peck