asked on # have x(b) to find b(x)...

Can you rewrite:

x=x(b)= h*tan(b)-(r/cos(b))+r

as b(x)=...

r and h are constants.

Thank you.

x=x(b)= h*tan(b)-(r/cos(b))+r

as b(x)=...

r and h are constants.

Thank you.

Math / Science

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:rrz@871311,

I guess based on the information given to pkwan, he has done his magic and the answer should be accepted. I guess I will post a new question asking for his help after we first discuss a point.

Looking at the attached graph, I guess you are accepting (eq. 1) and possibly you are rejecting (eq. 2). What is wrong with (eq. 2)? I find it to be correct. If you have a simpler one to replace it, it will be nice to show what it is and how you derive it?

Thank you,

Mike

drum-1.png

I guess based on the information given to pkwan, he has done his magic and the answer should be accepted. I guess I will post a new question asking for his help after we first discuss a point.

Looking at the attached graph, I guess you are accepting (eq. 1) and possibly you are rejecting (eq. 2). What is wrong with (eq. 2)? I find it to be correct. If you have a simpler one to replace it, it will be nice to show what it is and how you derive it?

Thank you,

Mike

a =a(x,b)= (1/r)*sqrt((h + rsin(b))^2 + (x + r - rcos(b))^2) - b-h/r (eq.1)

x=x(b)=r (cos(b)+ tan(b)sin(b)-1)+ tan(b)h (eq. 2)

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rwheeler23

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If you make a new graph, then change the way you illustrate the rope. It would more clear to have the orange segment followed by the purple segment followed by the red segment. Even better, just show the r*(a+b) rope segment in one color followed by the original rope segment in another color. As the pulling progresses the drum rotates and the point of contact moves up simultaneously, so the segment of rope that comes off the drum is made from both. I look at it as some unwinding and some unwrapping.

As I am going through your post one item at a time:

r:> a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

I can see how you got this and it is brilliant.

---------------

re:> ((x+d)/rTan(b)) = h/r

I think this should be

((x+d)/rTan(b)) = (h+k)/r

You have switched from one version (left below) of blue triangle to the other one (right below). See the graph below for k and d.

Unfortunately, my last attempt in deriving x =h*Tan(b) - (r/cos(b)) +r had the same problem.

I will read the rest of the post and also wait for your response for the second item here.

Regards,

Mike

drum-3.png

r:> a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

I can see how you got this and it is brilliant.

---------------

re:> ((x+d)/rTan(b)) = h/r

I think this should be

((x+d)/rTan(b)) = (h+k)/r

You have switched from one version (left below) of blue triangle to the other one (right below). See the graph below for k and d.

Unfortunately, my last attempt in deriving x =h*Tan(b) - (r/cos(b)) +r had the same problem.

I will read the rest of the post and also wait for your response for the second item here.

Regards,

Mike

re: It would more clear to have t...

I just saw your post on this. Yes it is good idea and I will show r(a+b) together at the top in same color.

Mike

I just saw your post on this. Yes it is good idea and I will show r(a+b) together at the top in same color.

Mike

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Forget about d and k. Just use my derivation that I gave using the horizontal additions.

re:> x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

Wow, this is real nice.

Wow, this is real nice.

ok, i will make the graph and the rest.

thx

thx

Your help has saved me hundreds of hours of internet surfing.

fblack61

again with **x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)**

This**x** has a moving origin. This cannot be. the origin of** x** has to be r distance to the right from the center line of the drum.

Sorry for this set back.

Mike

This

Sorry for this set back.

Mike

>the origin of x has to be r distance to the right from the center line of the drum

Yes.

>This x has a moving origin.

No. You said that "r" is a constant for each animation.

Yes.

>This x has a moving origin.

No. You said that "r" is a constant for each animation.

on the graph above x shown with two dashes has moving origin as the string is pulled.

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x = 0 at the point where the rope started before being pulled. You have x mislabeled in the right-hand graph above here.

the following equation is good one because it doesn't refer to x:

a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

We need to fix string origin to zero where it is pulled zero inch.

a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

We need to fix string origin to zero where it is pulled zero inch.

brb

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William Peck

In the left-hand graph, you have it correct.

x=0 where the rope starts.

The drum is located at x = - r and y = h

x=0 where the rope starts.

The drum is located at x = - r and y = h

>We need to fix string origin to zero where it is pulled zero inch.

It has been there all along.

>brb

What does that mean?

It has been there all along.

>brb

What does that mean?

rrz>You have x mislabeled in the right-hand graph above here.

That where you got confused. The bottom of that triangle should have labeled h*tan(b)

That where you got confused. The bottom of that triangle should have labeled h*tan(b)

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rrz@871311,

I agree and very much like a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

But, I don't see how you get this one:

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

Could you please, in reference to the graph below, make your case? I know you have patiently done this a few times but I thing there is something illusive causes the problem going back and fort from one graph to another.

thanks.

Cam-3.png

I agree and very much like a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

But, I don't see how you get this one:

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

Could you please, in reference to the graph below, make your case? I know you have patiently done this a few times but I thing there is something illusive causes the problem going back and fort from one graph to another.

thanks.

wrong graph... sorry

rrz@871311,

I agree and very much like a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

But, I don't see how you get this one:

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

Could you please, in reference to the graph below, make your case? I know you have patiently done this a few times but I thing there is something illusive causes the problem going back and fort from one graph to another.

thanks.

drum-3.png

rrz@871311,

I agree and very much like a = (r *tan(b) + h/cos(b) - h)/r - b

But, I don't see how you get this one:

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

Could you please, in reference to the graph below, make your case? I know you have patiently done this a few times but I thing there is something illusive causes the problem going back and fort from one graph to another.

thanks.

The drum is located at x = - r y = h

The rope starts at x = 0 y = 0

After some pulling the bottom the rope is at x = x

At that time the horizontal distance between the center of the drum and the bottom of the rope = x + r

Ignore your last two graphs.Forget about d and k.

Look at your graph at

https://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Scripting/Q_27237703.html?cid=748#a36323336

The bottom of the yellow triangle = r/cos(b)

The bottom of the blue triangle = h*tan(b)

They cover the same horizontal distance as the radius of the drum and the distance pulled.

Therefore

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

The rope starts at x = 0 y = 0

After some pulling the bottom the rope is at x = x

At that time the horizontal distance between the center of the drum and the bottom of the rope = x + r

Ignore your last two graphs.Forget about d and k.

Look at your graph at

https://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Scripting/Q_27237703.html?cid=748#a36323336

The bottom of the yellow triangle = r/cos(b)

The bottom of the blue triangle = h*tan(b)

They cover the same horizontal distance as the radius of the drum and the distance pulled.

Therefore

x + r = r/cos(b) + h*tan(b)

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This is thinking out of the box. I will post the new question now.

Thanks,

Mike

Thanks,

Mike

Hi pkwan,

If you happened to view this post, please help us with the following math question.

https://www.experts-exchange.com/Other/Math_Science/Q_27243101.html

Regards,

Mike

If you happened to view this post, please help us with the following math question.

https://www.experts-exchange.com/Other/Math_Science/Q_27243101.html

Regards,

Mike

https://www.experts-exchange.com/Programming/Languages/Scripting/Q_27237703.html

The equation should have been

x = h*tan(b) + r/cos(b) - r

So once we get pkwan's corrected equation. We can plug it into our function for "a" and then we will have the long sought after "a" as a function of "x" . Wow! It is going to be a complicated equation.