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TalkTalk smtp settings

Posted on 2011-09-02
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Last Modified: 2013-12-25
I'm asking here since TalkTalk (TT) now refuse to support email clients (!)

I've reconfigured the user's account in Outlook Express 6 to use an IMAP connection to TT instead of the previous POP(3?)

There are two problems, in descending order of seriousness

a. smtp refuses to send
b. All the old POP account folders are still present, even though i attempted to delete the old account

According to the Web, there are no settings for smtp applicable apart from the server address - is that really the case?
How do i get rid of the old folder tree?
ftree.JPG
smpt-err.JPG
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Question by:CEHJ
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by:marcustech
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You have SSL enabled.  Go to tools > Accounts > Properties > Advanced > untick 'This server requires a secure connection' next to the Outgoing server.
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by:CEHJ
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I didn't originally. But i then ticked it as a test. Restoring it to the original unticked state makes NO difference to the error message unfortunately

I've an idea why i could be having smtp problems - i'm connected to a network that is not TT's
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by:marcustech
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If you are using SSL then the correct port would be 465.  Try this.  Also your ISP could be blocking port 25, try 2525 or 587.  You can use the procedures described here to test the connection to the smtp server using telnet.

Hmm, actually I can't telnet to that server on port 25.  Can you confirm that if you revert to POP3 and SMTP it works?
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by:CEHJ
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smtp works from the TT network, so looks like i was right. The other issue remains though
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BillDL earned 300 total points
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Hi CEHJ.  You said that "TalkTalk now refuse to support email clients".
My father uses Outlook Express with POP3/SMTP settings and it's still working fine.  I tested it about 6pm yesterday.  I also have his account configured in my own Outlook Express for troubleshooting purposes and a backup in case it ever has issues on his system.

Did you get an email from them or see this on their support pages?

Account Properties in OE in each relevant tab:

Servers tab:
Needs the full email address under the account name field.
pop.talktalk.net
smtp.talktalk.net
No other boxes ticked other than "remember password".

Advanced tab:
SMTP Port 25 (no SSL)
POP3 Port 110 (no SSL)

Previously with AVG Free AntiVirus the pop.talktalk.net and smtp.talktalk.net were erplaced by the localhost IP 127.0.0.1 and proxy accounts were configured in AVG's configuration, but MS Security Essentials is now installed and server details are back to default.

OK, I see that you discovered the cause of the failing SMTP messages, ie. the network you are connected through.

You also asked/stated:
"All the old POP account folders are still present, even though I attempted to delete the old account"

The Inbox, Outbox, Sent Items, Deleted Items, and Drafts folders under the "Local Folders" are the default Outlook Express folders and will not just disappear if you delete a POP3/SMTP account in Outlook Express, or have I misunderstood what you are asking?  Are you talking about deleting the IMAP account and the IMAP folders?
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by:CEHJ
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>>Hi CEHJ.  You said that "TalkTalk now refuse to support email clients".

Yes, that's what they said over the phone when i spoke to them

>>
The Inbox, Outbox, Sent Items, Deleted Items, and Drafts folders under the "Local Folders" are the default Outlook Express folders and will not just disappear if you delete a POP3/SMTP account in Outlook Express, or have I misunderstood what you are asking?
>>

That's unfortunate as it's very confusing for the user who now sees 'default' folders and IMAP folders with the same name. Perhaps i should use a different mail client. I'm loth to use Thunderbird now as there seems to be a lot of unwanted automation going on with it.
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by:BillDL
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My misunderstanding.  I was thinking along the lines of actual physicval support by email clients of their service, rather than the obvious fact that they now are too lazy and/or incompetent to offer software support (advice) about configuring email clients to use their service and troubleshooting connection related issues.

I understand what you mean with Thunderbird.  I just read an article entitled "Has Firefox Lost Its Way".  Some software starts out lean, mean, and fast, but due to geeky requests can end up being as bloated or clunky as the software that it was written to be the "better" alternative for.  I can't say for certain, but my opinion is that Thunderbird and Firefox have evolved into the Facebook versions of browser and email client - like someone's suburban garden that keeps acquiring new garden gnomes, water features, archways, and so on to the point you can no longer find your way to the bench.

I agree that it can be very hard to quickly navigate the OE Folder pane with so many folders there.  You can obviously collapse your "Inbox" sub-folders to take up less room, but if you collapse "Local Folders" the IMAP item disappears, doesn't it? ...  Or DOES IT?  I just created a fake IMAP account, so it obviously wouldn't be able to download folders, but my "imap.tiscali.co.uk" sat nicely below "Local Folders" when I collapsed all the standard OE folders.  It should remember that it was last collapsed and open that way the next time.

Try it and see.
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by:CEHJ
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>> "Local Folders" the IMAP item disappears, doesn't it? ...  Or DOES IT?  

No ;) The fact that that branch of the tree can be collapsed makes it *slightly* better. But not good enough.

A more annoying problem is that Sent mail does not appear in the IMAP Sent folder (hidden by default) but in the *local* Sent folder. I suppose we could investigate setting up a rule to copy to IMAP Sent
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by:XCONBLR
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You can have your POP3 folder structure removed by removing the data related to the POP3 on the local machine.

Check this
http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/oetips.htm
C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\Identities\{ACEF249B-0C16-491C-B19E-347F8295C81C}\Microsoft\Outlook Express

Under this you will have the folder structure maintained.
You can move these files below this to another folder and you should be good to go.

Let me know if you have any questions on this.
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by:BillDL
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Hi XCONBLR.

This is not a criticism, because I am not absolutely sure of this without actually creating a real IMAP account in OE for myself, but to my recollection - and going by the leftover file after creating a bogus IMAP account and then removing it - the file "Offline.dbx" in the user's Outlook Express "Store Folder" contains the data synchronised by an IMAP account and also the older method of configuring a Hotmail "HTTP" account.

"Folders.dbx" is the file that maps the hierarchy of visible folders in OE to their related *.DBX files in the Store Folder, newsgroups and accounts, synchronisation settings for IMAP and the old Hotmail method.  I can see evidence of my bogus IMAP account in that file in My Store Folder even though the account has been removed.  Perhaps compacting will remove the redundant data from the file, but I have to wonder how much the IMAP account is dependent on that DBX file's presence in the Store Folder for the current OE "Identity".

I'm not sure that I understand what you are suggesting CEHJ do with the *.DBX and other files in his OE Store Folder, but my immediate instinct tells me that moving "Folders.dbx" and "Offline.dbx" to another folder MAY lose the IMAP settings and folders UNLESS relocation is done by modifying the path to the Store Folder in Tools > Options > Maintenance tab, which would obviously defeat the point of the exercise.  My experience is that manually moving "Store Folder" data around without setting the new location in the registry or in the Tools > Options > Maintenance tab confuses OE and can cause unexpected behaviour.

If Outlook Express doesn't find the DBX files for the standard default folders (Inbox, etc) in the current "Identity's" Store Folder, then won't OE just recreate those DBX files the next time it is opened?

Just looking at CEHJ's screenshot, there are currently 110 Unread messages in the Inbox, and we have no way of knowing how many Read messages are in there.  Messing with DBX files while the folders have messages in them can cause a major headache and potentially lose your messages.

If this is something you have personally done successfully, then I apologise for my trepidation and can say that I have learned something new, but I hope that you can understand why this suggestion immediately caused me some concern.

Bill
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by:BillDL
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CEHJ

In this screenshot:
http://help.seattleserver.com/tutorial/images/email/imap/outlook_express/finished.png
from this page:
http://help.seattleserver.com/imap-setup-outlook-express/
it shows that collapsing the "Local Folders" leaves the IMAP folders under it, and the "Local Folders" item takes up very little space when collapsed.

Be sure also to untick the "When Outlook Express starts, go directly to my Inbox" option that shows in the reading pane when you select the topmost "Outlook Express" item in your Folder pane.  If left ticked, that will most likely just keep expanding the sub-folders in your Inbox every time you open OE.

Disable your POP3 account from retrieving new messages under the Tools > Accounts > select POP3 Account > General tab, OR delete the Password, OR delete the POP3 Account before configuring the IMAP account and testing it.

Whatever you do, I think it best to be safe and copy out ALL your *.DBX files from your Store Folder to a safe non-System folder as backups.  It's made quite easy with "Outlook Express Quick backup":
http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx

The "Old Mail Tip" at the end of this page is then very good advice:
http://help.seattleserver.com/imap-setup-outlook-express/

By the way, I am very aware of your E-E credentials and hope that you don't think I'm addressing you like an inexperienced bozo ;-)
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by:CEHJ
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>>The "Old Mail Tip" at the end of this page is then very good advice:

Yes that looks good. And from the screenshots above it's simple to infer that 'duplicated mail folders' is the norm with OE+IMAP, so if the client wants to continue with Windows, i think i'm going to have to get a better client.

>>...and hope that you don't think I'm addressing you like an inexperienced bozo ;-)

Not at all - don't worry :)
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by:CEHJ
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Thanks for that. I must say that deleting folders was the first thing that sprang to mind to get out of the mess caused by 'redundant' mail folders when using OE IMAP.

My next thought was to leave well alone - you can't second-guess the minds of developers of closed source code ;)

I might however, temporarily move the .dbx files elsewhere if and when i install Thunderbird, since that app now has a nasty habit of importing existing mail folders without asking. This, afaik, is the only way of preventing that.
Someone *please* correct me if i'm wrong
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by:BillDL
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Thank you CEHJ.

Just testing the "mobile" interface from a PC because the normal one is frustratingly slow due to the +1, Facebook, LinkedIn, etc icons loading in the Stay Up To Date section.

Yes, Thunderbird used to prompt you to import existing email messages (same as firefox did for Favorites and settings), but the last time I installed it there was not prompt and it just found and imported my OE Store Folder.  Temporarily moving the DBX files out of your Store Folder should prevent that.
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by:CEHJ
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I was particularly glad of the screenshot in one of your links, Bill, that shows very much the same picture as the one i posted. I can thus 'prove' to my client that i haven't borked her mail ;)
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by:BillDL
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I don't do it for a living, but I know from experience that you always get the blame of screwing something up immediately you boot the PC to have a look at the problem ... unless you have the proof that you didn't ;-)
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