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5 times worse?

Posted on 2011-09-08
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A new poll...

Two new polls today find that just one third of the public feels President Obama deserves re-election while five times more Americans think Obama has done a worse job fixing the economy than Jimmy Carter

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/09/08/poll-obama-five-times-worse-than-carter-on-economy?s_cid=rss:washington-


Do you agree?


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Question by:carsRST
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34 Comments
 
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by:Anthony Russo
Anthony Russo earned 7 total points
ID: 36505862
Jimmy Carter??

You're asking Americans of today if the current president is doing a worse job then a president from 30+ years ago?

So the respondents must have been at least 50+ to even have been alive to remember the Carter administration and have any idea of what an economy was. Or is it based on what they read or learned of Carter which of course is biased depending on where you read it, just like anything political.

I wouldn't hold much weight in that poll honestly.
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by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 36506165
Really?  That is not much more than a gossip column.  The 5% got their allowance taken away when Jimmy Carter was president.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36506302
Anthony/Dave, you both are highly skilled and in demand.  Put yourself in the shoes of the millions unemployed right now.
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LVL 83

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by:Dave Baldwin
Dave Baldwin earned 7 total points
ID: 36506353
From this morning: http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/09/08/u-s-unemployment-the-facts-wed-rather-not-face/?iid=SF_BN_LN  When I was 'growing up', everyone I knew, even the jocks, thought it was important to know how to do something that would get them employed.  A lot of people don't seem to believe that anymore.  If you want to fix unemployment, you have to get the politicians to tell the hard truth that stupid and uneducated doesn't cut it.  I'm not holding my breath.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36506461
>>If you want to fix unemployment, you have to get the politicians to tell the hard truth that stupid and uneducated doesn't cut it.

Part of what you're going to hear tonight is the call for an extension of unemployment benefits.  That alone perpetuates the issue...why gain an employer desired skill when the government will pay you to sit on your duff.
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by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 36506732
No argument there.  I know some people on 'unemployment' and they do not want to get a job and get off of it.

I read a science fiction story many years ago that talked about 'citizens' and 'non-citizens'.  The premise was that if you were a 'citizen', you were taken care of and entertained... but you were not allowed to do anything that might be the least bit dangerous...  like driving a car, cooking for yourself, or going outside the city walls.  The government was advertising for a few good 'non-citizens' that would give up their 'right' to be taken care of.  These people would do the actual work and be allowed the freedoms that the taken-care-of 'citizens' were not permitted.  It's seeming less fictional now.
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by:bergertime
bergertime earned 12 total points
ID: 36510728
While Carter and Obama got elected for the same reason (Carter wasn't Ford and Obama wasn't Bush....i.e. they weren't republicans), Obama is a much better public speaker, while Carter was more experienced, neither turned out to be very good politicians or presidents.  IMO Obama is worse because he promised so much.  I have a friend that got laid off last month, she has no plans on looking for a job.  My wife come home fuming from karate class, she was talking to one of the other moms who has 3 kids in karate and she's on wick.  She spends almost $400/month to keep her kids in karate and gets wick.  We don't get wick and have to pick and choose what we can let our kids do.  How is it even fair to take from me and give to someone who dosen't want to work?!  
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by:carsRST
ID: 36511357
>> My wife come home fuming from karate class, she was talking to one of the other moms who has 3 kids in karate and she's on wick.  She spends almost $400/month to keep her kids in karate and gets wick.  We don't get wick and have to pick and choose what we can let our kids do.

Smart phones, cable, karate, big screen TVs...and yet live on the public dime.



Obama seeks to broaden mortgage refinancings
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/08/us-usa-housing-obama-idUSTRE7877UW20110908

I close on a refinance today - I'm up on my loan, never made a late payment.  Yet, if this goes through, I'm in essence punished for living within my means.  I have to pay my own closing costs - who is going to pay it for these government refinances?  Do they get the same rate as I, with excellent credit, get?
What about if the house is worth less than the loan?  Do they get to refinance to the estimated worth - are tax payers paying the difference?

I'm tired of being punished for doing things right!
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by:BigRat
BigRat earned 6 total points
ID: 36511471
Taking the poll and dave's link the situation can be summed up as follows: American's are on the "who can I blame next" trip.

We have the same problems here in Europe. It's always a game who is overweight the most: ther Germans, the Belgians or the British? Currently the British are winning. In Spain we have disasterous youth unemployment statistics - inspite of good education, but the children of most immigrants also lack basic langauge and social skills.

The American situation has been getting steadily worse over the last twenty odd years. Balance of payments problems and now with 50% of the population overweight.

The difference is that in Europe nobody expects somebody to come along with a magic wand and fix everything. But in America it seems that one does. How can any president of any party in just FOUR years really make fundamental changes?
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by:bergertime
ID: 36511514
BigRat, you are right, and so many people here look to the gov't to fix everything, to make jobs, etc.  
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by:carsRST
ID: 36511538
>>The difference is that in Europe nobody expects somebody to come along with a magic wand and fix everything.

Than why were there so many riots?
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 36512000
The only point I was arguing is asking people to compare something with something from over 30 years ago and thinking that is a fair result.

It's obviously swayed to those over 50 that can honestly participate and not a true representation of America today.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512112
>>It's obviously swayed to those over 50 that can honestly participate and not a true representation of America toda

I think the reason Carter's name comes up because he represents the last failed presidency in modern times.  
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 36512167
>>I think the reason Carter's name comes up because he represents the last failed presidency in modern times.

That doesn't change that it still makes the results skewed.

So if the last failed president was Hoover, would it be fair to ask Americans today to compare the economy to that time period?
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512215
Carter's presidency wasn't that long ago.  Many people know about the high gas prices (long waits in line just to fill up), high inflation, skyrocketing interest rates, regulations.  He, like Obama, was a disaster.


See picture.  Under Carter, this was what one had to do to get gas.  You don't forget that.
 carterGasLines.jpg
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by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 36512275
I don't remember why but I never had to get in lines like that.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512309
>>I don't remember why but I never had to get in lines like that.



 9bfb20a86c4880f3abef0b56b9531884.jpg
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512311
that was a joke, Dave   :)

 
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 36512395
>>Under Carter, this was what one had to do to get gas.  You don't forget that.

Exactly my point. YOU don't forget that because it is something you experienced, but I can't forget that because I wasn't even 10 years old. I had no idea what the economy was or anything like that. This poll only applies to those that are over 50 really.

So maybe 20 to 25% of the population can relate to that poll. I wouldn't call that representative of American population.

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by:bergertime
bergertime earned 12 total points
ID: 36512453
While I agree on the premise it's impossible to say how you feel each president did/is doing since you may not remember Carter, but the fact is you can weigh what they were able to achieve.  Carter....he biggest achievement perhaps was the middle east, but other than that things were pretty messy.  Now I think most would say Obama's biggest was health care, other than that what has he achieved?  And a lot of people would argue that health care was Obama's biggest failure.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 36512607
But in that regards you are going off information not experienced, but read-taught-learned etc. I have very little confidence in getting honest information in that way as it is all biased to me.

I can find 10 sources to state economy is improving today and also 10 to state it is declining today. Back in the 70's there was propaganda as well, just not as many sources as we have with the Internet.

Now looking back at the poll in question it is so obviously right leaning, even the headline is wrong so it sounds worse for Obama.

Headline: "Poll: Obama Five Times Worse Than Carter on Economy"

First paragraph:  "...one third of the public feels President Obama deserves re-election while five times more Americans think Obama has done a worse job fixing the economy than Jimmy Carter"

That doesn't say the public thinks he did 5 times worse than Carter. It says 5 times as many people think he did worse than Carter compared to the one-third that think he should be re-elected.

It's totally a false headline! All it means is that if they polled 1000 people and 333 feel he should be re-elected, then 1665 people think he did worse than Carter.

Politics as usual.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512689
>>But in that regards you are going off information not experienced, but read-taught-learned etc. I have very little confidence in getting honest information in that way as it is all biased to me.


I don't think anyone would claim that Carter was a success.  The gas lines were real, the inflation was real, unemployment was real, 21% interest rates were real.  

Carter failed on the Iranian hostage crisis.  The hostages were released minutes after Reagan was sworn in, b/c the Iranians were afraid of him.



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by:sbdt8631
sbdt8631 earned 6 total points
ID: 36512735
"We posed the question this way: "Many recent presidents up for reelection have struggled with troubled economies and growing unemployment like the current situation. Which of the following was the worst at fixing the economy?"
President Obama - 47 percent.
George H.W. Bush - 40 percent.
Jimmy Carter - 8 percent.
Ronald Reagan - 5 percent."

I think the percentages prove Anthony correct.  The two most recent Presidents received 87% together.  The people polled don't remember Reagan or Carter.  If they did, Carter would have gotten more than 8%. IMO
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 36512741
I'm not saying Carter was a success or Obama or anything. Just pointing out the bogus nature of that article and poll.

The poll is skewed.

The article headline is a flat out misrepresentation of what the poll did find according to their own first paragraph.
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by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 36512834
So the President controls everything.  I think you should go tell Congress, the Supreme Court, all the bankers in New York, and the governors of all 50 states about it.  And I guess you should tell all the countries of the world because they don't seem to understand it either.

Simple answers are like no answers at all.  The President has nothing to do with 99% plus of the business of this country, he does Not control the economy and some days has barely any influence.  Large banks and corporations like the auto companies and computer companies have a direct effect on the economy because they hire people and buy products.  Walmart, being the largest US company, has more effect on the economy than the President. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/index.html

Presidents may 'lead' but they require the cooperation of a lot of people to get anything done.  The President could not have provided financial help to anyone without Congress because they have to approve the spending.  To says it's all the President's fault is to ignore most of what goes on.  It's just not ever that simple.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36512880
>>The President has nothing to do with 99% plus of the business of this country,



I disagree.  This president hasn't gotten in the way of businesses doing business.

Obama's regulations have cost companies billions.  He's prevented us from drilling for our own resources, resulting in higher energy prices.  And Obamacare will end up costing jobs and bankrupting the country.

He knows that, which is why he had to rollback one of his prime smog regulations.  He did this RIGHT after the unemployment news hit.
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-halts-controversial-epa-regulation-143731156.html

The proposed smog standard was estimated to cost anywhere between $19 billion and $90 billion, depending on how strict it would be.
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by:Tlingit
Tlingit earned 6 total points
ID: 36512984
>>The difference is that in Europe nobody expects somebody to come along with a magic wand and fix everything. But in America it seems that one does. How can any president of any party in just FOUR years really make fundamental changes?

I know the liberals hate to hear his name, but Reagan inherited a far worse economy then Obama and he turned it around.
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by:Dave Baldwin
ID: 36513023
"Obama's regulations"?  You mean the ones that Congress passed?  You mean the ones from the departments that Congress created?  You keep talking like the President is the only one doing anything.!
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by:Tlingit
ID: 36513206
So if the last failed president was Hoover, would it be fair to ask Americans today to compare the economy to that time period?

Yes, it is important to know what happened before, during, and after the Great Depression.  Herbert Hoover was the Presdient before FDR.  The similariites between him and Bush, and FDR and Obama are astounding.  We are repeating history.  Hoover, who was a republican, did a bailout like Bush toward the end of his presidency.  Bush did his bank bailout.  These bailouts set the tone for their predecessors in that FDR, like Obama, did one bailout after another, which failed.  They tried keynesian economics, which is deficit spending to get out of the Great Depression.  A lot of economists believe FDR prolonged the Great Depression with his economic approach; the same is true with President Obama.  He believes in deficit spending as well, which we are seeing first hand that it doesn't work.
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by:Tlingit
ID: 36513324
>>You mean the ones that Congress passed?

Obamacare is one big regulation and is having a direct impact on our economy, and it will make things worse.  The republicans played zero role in getting this done.

>>You mean the ones from the departments that Congress created?

EPA is doing a lot of behind the scenes regulations that could be unconstitutional.  The Obama administration uses this entity to enforce a lot of regulations on businesses, which has an adverse impact on our economy.

New Financial Regulations passed in 2010 (Too Big To Fail Law), once again passed during a time when the House, Senate, and Oval office was ruled by the Obama regime.  I don't see Bank Of America thriving right now.  In fact didn't Warren Buffet invest 5B dollars in this bank?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/07/15/john-berlau-financial-counterproductiveness/
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by:carsRST
ID: 36513819
Obama actually uses regulations to circumvent congress.

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beetos earned 6 total points
ID: 36514711
Tling - are you suggesting that even though these banks brought the global economy to the brink of collapse, no regulation or oversight is needed?  Do you think we don't need the CFPB?

And the rest that think the poor are living high on the hog, I suggest this: try it.   You seem to think these people should have absolutely nothing ( again the conservative meme "The poor have too much money").  

 In one particular case, you were outraged that a poor woman on WIC has her children in a karate class, while you have to pay for your child's food in addition to karate, the insinuation that your taxes shouldn't be paying for that.  Well  don't you get a tax break for your child?  Why should I have to pay for that?  Why should money I've earned go to you to raise your child or pay the interest on your house and your vacation house when I have to rent mine?

BTW, here are some of  Obama's accomplishments:

Signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, giving the FDA the authority to regulate the manufacturing, marketing, and sale of tobacco for the first time

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

Increased average fuel economy standards from 27.5mpg to 35.5mpg, starting in 2016

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Established Credit Card Bill of Rights, preventing credit card companies from imposing arbitrary rate increases on customers

Eliminated subsidies to private lender middlemen of student loans and protect student borrowers

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Voluntary disclosure of White House visitors for the first time in US history

Killed Osama Bin Laden.
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by:WaterStreet
ID: 36514822
beetos,

Thanks for the impressive list.
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by:carsRST
ID: 36517645
Beetos, those "accomplishments" are so good that Dems are running from Obama, Anthony Weiner's seat is about to go Republican, and Obama's approval rating is in the 30s and going lower every week.

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