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Message arrives on Blackberry, but not in Outlook

Posted on 2011-09-14
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Last Modified: 2012-06-22
This is a bit bizarre.  I have one user on our BES who randomly receives email messages on his blackberry but they do not arrive in Outlook.  Now, I can understand it being the other way around, perhaps, but this one has me stumped.  To my knowledge, his BES account is no different than anyone else, all using the same IT policy.  Nothing strange about his mailbox, etc.  Has anyone ever seen this happen?  
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Question by:12vltmn
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by:dj0rbit
ID: 36536743
have you check his Outlook rules? See if there's a rule that forward his email to somewhere else
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36537128
I will check his rules, but since it is random and not every email, I didn't think to look for that.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36537510
Check to see if the email is visible in OWA and on the Blackberry.  If they are, and not in Outlook, then Outlook has a screwy locally cached copy of the mailbox, so please delete close Outlook, delete the profile and set it up again and it will (should) download a fresh copy of ALL the mail.

Once done, check to see if the missing mail in Outlook is now visible.

If not - then you may have mailstore corruption - which needs fixing with an offline repair, defragmentation and integrity check.
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36537715
alan:  good to talk with you again.  Should I delete the .ost file before creating the new profile?

I will say a prayer in hopes there is no mailstore corruption.  :(
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36537758
Thanks - you too.

Simplest option is close outlook - delete the .ost file and then open up Outlook again.  This will regenerate the .OST file and download the mailbox contents again, hopefully with everything that was missing this time.

If that doesn't work - then it's not quite such a happy story :(
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539135
uh-oh...a specific email that did not arrive in his Outlook, but was received on his blackberry, is also not in his mailbox when accessed by OWA.  :-[  Do you think that means I'm hosed?  Should I go ahead and try the .ost file replacement?
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36539250
Ah - if the message isn't in OWA, then it won't be in Outlook either.

Have they setup an account on their Blackberry that might be pulling messages down and deleting them from the server?
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539319
I doubt it.  And, as I said, this is random.  Yesterday he received an email on his BB and it wasn't in Outlook.  He forwarded that email to me from his BB and asked me to extract the attachment and forward to him from my account.  There was no attachment so he emailed the sender and asked her to resend with attachments to both his account and my account.  This time he DID receive the email in Outlook, and so did I.  This has been happening randomly for a few weeks now.  Most email he received in Outlook, but a few only are received on his BB.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36539343
Okay - it does sound very much like database problems.

How many users on the database this users is on?

Are you familiar with eseutil and isinteg?
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539432
About 30 users.  No, unfortunately, I am not familiar with either utility.  Not really and Exchange guy, by  my own admission.  I can do simple administration, backups, etc. but no experience with maintenance.  I would have to bring in a consultant to handle anything scary.

Question:  What if we were to set up a new server and install Exchange 2010 (we are still using 2003).  If we migrated the date from the 2003 server to the 2010 server, would it also migrate the corrupted data?  I assume we would not be using the same database in 2010 that we were in 2003.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36539491
Not a problem - I will be gentle with you then :)

If you were to migrate to Exchange 2010 - any corrupt data would get left behind on the Exchange 2003 server during the mailbox moves to the 2010 server.  Might be a bit drastic to eliminate the problem though!

Are you people 24x7 users if email or can they handle some down-time after hours?

Do you know how big the mailstore is (priv1.edb plus priv1.stm)?
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539646
We know we should probably be more up-to-date with our Exchange, but given the current economic situation, now isn't the best time.  But, management may surprise me by approving the new version.  I have an available server, so the expense would be the software and implementation.  It is worth the suggestion.

I can work with it after hours.  No one is really 24X7.  Scares me to mess with our life-blood, though.  I would at least want a fresh full backup this weekend.

Total size is just under 80 GB.  I know, I know...humongous.  We are in the engineering industry, emails with large attachments, and users who think they cannot delete email.  It drives me nuts.  I have one user whose mailbox is over 10 GB with over 41,000 items.  Sometimes I wanna slap him.  :)  Plus, there are others with 7GB, 5 GB, 3 GB...and so on.  I just think a mail store with 30 users and 80 GB of data is ridiculous.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36539728
Yikes!  80Gb.  Please check and filter the Application Event Log for Event ID 1221 and look for the most recent one talking about the Private Information Store and let me know how much space it is reporting as available to be reclaimed.

Understand the lack of updated Exchange.  I only moved to Exch 2010 in Nov 2009 and skipped Exch 2007 - mostly due to hardware costs.

With 30 users - would you not be better suited to Small Business Server than full-blown Exchange?  It is aimed at less than 75 users.

Please feel free to slap your 10Gb mailbox user!!
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by:dj0rbit
ID: 36539750
do you know if he has any rules setup on his Blackberry and not outlook? Sometime users create rules on the blackberry that we'll cause issue with outlook
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539859
This is what I get from event ID 1221:

The database "First Storage Group\Mailbox Store ("XXXXXX")" has 3771 megabytes of free space after online defragmentation has terminated.

From 6 am this morning.

As for SBS, we had 80 users back in 2008...before the economy went south.  I could suggest that, knowing that we could not exceed 75.  Times would have to get much, much better for us to reach 75 users again.  SBS includes Exchange, correct?

Thanks for permission to slap the 10GB mailbox user.  If only...
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36539875
@djOrbit:  I didn't know you could set up rules on the Blackberry.  I doubt that he does either.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36540170
Okay - so about 3.7Gb of space you could recover.

To repair the database, the store needs to be dismounted and then you need to run the following commands from a command prompt, in the x:\program files\exchsrvr\bin folder :

eseutil /p "x:\program files\exchsrvr\mdbdata\priv1.edb"

eseutil /d "x:\program files\exchsrvr\mdbdata\priv1.edb"  (This command will need about 88Gb of free space to be able to run - if you don't have it - you will need to find a drive that has this space and add the "/tx:\pathtodrivewith88gbspace\tempdfrg.edb" command

Once you have run both of the above commands, please run:

isinteg -s servername -fix -test alltests

Run the above command at least twice or until you see 0 Errors and 0 Fixes in the last line of the output.

Eseutil runs at about 4-6Gb per hour, so anticipate about 20 hours per command max and 13hrs 20 minimum.  This could be running ALL weekend and means your store will be offline a long time :(
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36546557
alan:  don't you sleep?  :)  You are in the UK, right?

Thank you for all of this information.  Once my CEO returns from vacation next week I can discuss our options and see how he wants to proceed.  And from my previous post:  SBS includes Exchange?  Is that correct?  I have read on MS's web site that it includes email, so I figure it must be Exchange.  For a max of 75 mailboxes?

I really appreciate your help.  Especially in the middle of the night!  Someone from this site helped me back in July on a Sunday afternoon and it saved my butt.  I can't think you experts enough!

So, here's a dumb question...how do you dismount the information store?
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36546633
Sleep - what's that?  Yep - I'm in the UK and it's after midnight and I'm still going strong!!  Plotting my next US mail server migration :)

SBS does include Exchange - Max number of users is 75, then you need to go full-blown Windows / Exchange and have a bigger bank account.  It is designed to be run by a not-IT person (wizards all over the place for everything) whereas full Windows / Exchange takes a more technical savvy person to make it tick.

You are very welcome - I enjoy what I do and love technology, so more than happy to share and help where / when I can.  It does have it's benefits too!

Okay - to dismount the store, fire up Exchange System Manager, then drill down through the Server to the Information Store and then right-click either the Private Information Store or the Public Information Store and choose Dismount.  Opposite to Mount it.
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36549993
Thanks!  I do have a free space issue, though.  You said it would take 88 GB of free space to run the utils...I have less than half that with no other drives on that machine with the available space.  I thought about using an external USB drive but the USB on the old machine is USB 1.0 so it would take much longer than your original estimate, plus that USB has been acting a bit flaky lately.  When my CEO gets back on Monday I will have a serious discussion about SBS.  If he would agree to making that move we could migrate the data and be rid of the issue.

I will leave this question open for now and get back to you when I know what is happening.  Thanks again, Alan!  I'll be in touch.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36551109
If you have another server handy, you can copy the database and the tools and run the repair / defragmentation / integrity check on that server.

Is that an option?
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36551309
It is an option.  I have multiple servers...probably too many.  I suppose that means I would not have to take the mail server off line?  Or at least just long enough to copy the DB to an external drive or across the LAN to another server?
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36551339
Here is an article on how to run eseutil on a non-exchange server:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244525

If you do this - I would take the store offline, copy the database files to the other server with sufficient space for the files plus the 110% free space, so 168Gb free or more, then DO NOT mount the store again, or you will lose the mail that arrives after mounting the store and repairing the copy of the store.

Run the repair, defragment and integrity check, then copy the files back, mount the store and job done.
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36551523
Can you please explain this statement?  I don't understand "language locale setting":

Note If the language locale setting in Exchange Server does not match the language locale setting of the computer without Exchange server where you run Eseutil, you receive the following error message when you run Eseutil:
Error -1062 (JET_errInvalidLanguageId, Invalid or unknown language ID)
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36551767
Language Locale would be the United Kingdom / United States regional settings being different.  If they are the same - which you would imagine they are, then you should be fine.

Worst case - try it and see.  It's only suggesting a solution for a problem you don't know you have or will actually encounter!
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36561463
ALAN:  Quick question.  I have a former employee's mailbox still in Exchange that I need to export.  Main problem...it is 5 GB large and I want to be able to access it once it is in .pst format.  I have already had issues with exported .pst files that are over 2 GB and not being able to access them.  The 5 GB user was using Outlook 2007, but previously he was using 2003 on the same mailbox.  What can I do make sure I can still access the exported .pst file when it is so large?  Would his use of Outlook 2007 automatically remove the 2 GB issue?

I am trying to clean up the store and reduce the database size so I can run the utils this weekend.  I am sending out an email to the 7 users whose mailboxes are over 3 GB telling them they have to clean up before I can run this process.

thanks!
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36562652
Using Outlook will mean you can export more than 2Gb - doing this on the server will cause issues beyond 2Gb.

Fire up Outlook using their profile, then let it populate with their data and the Export to .PST.  Once exported, you should have a 5Gb .PST file.

If that happens, then you can delete the account.

Bear in mind that people tidying up their mailboxes won't reduce the store size until the Mailbox / Mailstore Retention period has passed, so check this and reduce it accordingly to empty out as much space as physically possible:

http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/mf022.html
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36562739
I noticed that the database size has not changed, even though people are cleaning up...including me.  :)  I will change the retention period temporarily so I can reduce.

So you are saying that if I use Outlook itself to export, I'll be ok.  But if I use ExMerge to export from the server to .pst I will have an issue if it is larger than 2 GB?  

Outlook 2003 still has the 2 GB limit, right?  I must use 2007?

When exporting from Outlook I should just select "Mailbox - USER's NAME" and it will export everything?
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36562782
Yep - exporting via Outlook won't have the issues of the 2Gb limit which you will have if done via the server.

As long as you write a Unicode PST file, then you won't hit the 2Gb limit as the limit is 20Gb.

Yes - Select the Mailbox - User Name (and subfolders) and it will export the lot.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36563572
Per our previous discussion regarding SBS, I  know you said a maximum of 75 users (mailboxes, I assume), what about the database size limit?  Any idea what that is?  One thing I found in the event log of our Exchange server was a warning that our max database size is 75 GB and we have exceeded that limit.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36563583
The maximum database size for SBS with SP2 is 18Gb by default, but configurable up to 75Gb maximum.

If you hit the max - you either need to tidy up / purge / archive mail, or upgrade to SBS 2011 which doesn't have this limitation.

When you hit the maximum size, the store will be dismounted automatically.  You can re-mount it, but the following day, it will be dismounted again.

The size of the database is calculated as follows:

PRIV1.EDB + PRIV1.STM - Space identified in Event ID 1221 in the Application Event Log for the Private Information Store (known as White Space).
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36563660
I wonder why the store is not dismounting.  We are over the 75 GB limit (which I configured from the default at least two years ago, if not three).  Maybe it is recognizing the recoverable space?  The event said our limit is 75 GB and our database is currently 75 GB.  It is actually nearly 80 when I add the size of the two together.

If we chose to purchase SBS in the future, it would be version 2011 anyway (or later).  Good to know that version has no database limitation.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36563689
How much space is identified in Event ID 1221 for the Private Info Store ( most recent entry)?

Exchange 2010 has a 1024Gb limit, but this can be changed.  That should give you plenty of space!

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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36563746
The database "First Storage Group\Mailbox Store (XXXXXXXXX)" has 3446 megabytes of free space after online defragmentation has terminated.

I don't see a "Private Info Store", only Mailbox Store or Public Store.

So, it sounds like if we upgraded (I use that term loosely because there is no upgrade path from Exchange 2003), we could either purchase Exchange Standard 2010 (which has a DB limit of 1024 GB) or SBS 2011 (which has no DB limit).  Correct?  We would not have to move up to Enterprise.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36563775
That's nearly 3.5Gb of white space in the Private Store.  Mailbox Store = Private Store = PRIV1.EDB.

SBS 2011 includes Exchange 2010, so the same database limit is applicable.  You won't need Exchange 2010 Enterprise.

You can migrate from Exchange 2003 to SBS 2011 or Exchange 2010 - depends on your needs / user count.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36568706
Can a SBS 2011 deployment co-exist in a domain where we already have 11 windows servers?  I would assume it wants to be the top dog given the fact that these are mostly installed as a single-server environment.  We have multiple locations, each with its own domain controller, plus SQL and a variety of other DC's serving multiple purposes in our headquarters office.  thanks.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36569873
Yes - SBS 2011 can live alongside 11 other servers, but it HAS to hold ALL 5 FSMO roles in order for it to work.  Other than that - there isn't a problem.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36570017
Transferring the FSMO roles should not be a problem.  Thanks Alan.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36570029
You're welcome.
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by:12vltmn
ID: 36574244
ok, new question...I reduced the retention on the information store to one (1) day for deleted items and deleted mailboxes.  I did that on Monday.  The database has not reduced in size at all this week.  We have deleted well over 10 GB from our information store.  Why do you think the database is still the same size?  It actually increased in size by a few MB from Monday to Tuesday.  No change whatsoever overnight last night.  I have to get the size reduced if I'm going to repair.  :(

Shouldn't it reduce in size?  Or does it just open up more white space?
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36574276
AHA!  More white space:

The database "First Storage Group\Mailbox Store (XXXXXXX)" has 18345 megabytes of free space after online defragmentation has terminated.

That is an increase of about 15 GB.  So the database will not actually reduce from its largest size reached until I run the utilities to defrag and check integrity?
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36588110
alan:  I plan to copy the database files and utilities to another location this evening and run the repair/defrag over the weekend.  However, I am a bit confused by your post dated:

09/14/11 06:22 PM, ID: 36540170

You say:

To repair the database, the store needs to be dismounted and then you need to run the following commands from a command prompt, in the x:\program files\exchsrvr\bin folder :

eseutil /p "x:\program files\exchsrvr\mdbdata\priv1.edb"

eseutil /d "x:\program files\exchsrvr\mdbdata\priv1.edb"  (This command will need about 88Gb of free space to be able to run - if you don't have it - you will need to find a drive that has this space and add the "/tx:\pathtodrivewith88gbspace\tempdfrg.edb" command

Once you have run both of the above commands, please run:

isinteg -s servername -fix -test alltests


Is this a typo where you told me to run eseutil /d on priv1.edb twice?  Was the second one supposed to the priv1.stm?  And if I copy the two databases to another location, am I using the command that inlcudes "tempdfrg.edb"?  Or just run the eseutil on the database itself as if it were still on the Exchange server?

thanks
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36588611
Doh!  My bad.  Re-reading it made me realize these are two separate commends due to the /p and /d switches.  Sorry.  But, I still have the question about the "tempdrfg.edb".  Also, I assume I run the two eseutil commands on both priv1 databases, yes?  Or just on the .edb?
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36588710
Do I do this in the non-Exchange server location?:

Eseutil /g

OR do this on the Exchange server after I copy back the databases?:

isinteg -s servername -fix -test alltests

Just want to make sure I have it all covered before I start this on Saturday morning.

thanks
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36589149
You can leave off the /t switch as long as you have lots of space on the server you are copying the database files to.

So, dismount the store, copy the database files (.edb and .stm) to another server.  Also copy the relevant tools as per the Microsoft article.

Run eseutil /p

Run eseutil /d

Copy the database files back to the Exchange server.

Run isinteg -s servername -fix -test alltests

Re-run isinteg command to make sure you see 0 errors and 0 fixes in last line

Mount the store.

Job done.

I'm around over the weekend if you need assistance so just fire a new comment here and I hopefully wont be long in responding.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590004
sweet.  thanks
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590153
ummm...still a bit confused.  You say "Run eseutil /p"  I still have to specify the database file name, correct?  And per a previous question, do I run that on both the .edb and the .stm or just the .edb?  Or do I not need the filename since the utils and database files reside in the same directory?  Does it automatically look for the .edb in that directory?  Sorry.  Just a bit nervous.  :)
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Alan Hardisty earned 500 total points
ID: 36590193
Sorry - I was giving you the simplistic overview of what to do - not the detailed commands.

Yes - you need to run eseutil /p and point to the path of the PRIV1.EDB file, but not knowing where you are going to put them, I can't be specific.

The default command using the default paths would be (run from the c:\program files\exchsrvr\bin folder):

eseutil /p "d:\program files\exchsrvr\mdbdata\priv1.edb"

You need to change the command to suit your environment and if there is a space in the folder path, you need to wrap the location in Quote Marks.

The same applies to the eseutil /d command

You only run the command for the .edb not the .stm.  The command will check both files.

If you have the program files and databases in the same folder, you can run the following command:

eseutil /p priv1.edb

Make sense?
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590234
yes!  Crystal.  thanks
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36590252
Excellent.  How soon before you start doing this?  I'm awake for about 3 more hours!!
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590350
HA!  I am dismounting the store in 20 minutes, then beginning the copy of the database files to a different location across the LAN.  Once the copy is moving, I am headed home and will run the utils from there remotely.  I will come back to the office on Sunday to copy the database files back to the Exchange server and run the integrity check.  How long do you expect the integrity check to take?  It is now 4:12 pm here.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36590360
Can't say specifically, but it should be less that eseutil.

Just thinking laterally, do you have Exchange Standard or Enterprise?
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590376
Standard
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36590422
Shame - No worries.  Could have just created a new store and moved the mailboxes.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36590444
You mean IF we had Enterprise?
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36590448
Yes - if you had Enterprise - there would be alternative options to eseutil & isinteg.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36592549
Alan:  What would you say if I told you that the /p completed in 49 minutes and the /d completed in just under 2 hours?  Would that concern you, or should I just celebrate that it took way less time than expected?  The total size was reduced to 45 GB.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36592817
Well - I'd be celebrating!  That's excellent news.  Perhaps the server you copied the files to is much faster - either way, if it has finished and reduced the store to 45gb, then what's to be unhappy about?

Copy them back and isinteg it quick!!
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36593044
I just wanted to run that by you since it took much less time than expected.  I am not unhappy about that!  I am currenlty copying back and will run isinteg soon...then test and back up.

I copied to files to a 10-disk RAID 5 server attached storage on which my backups reside.  May have had something to do with the speed of completion.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36593054
:) - Excellent.  Not suggesting you were complaining and I am as surprised as you are at the speed.  Next time I need to run the tools, I'm coming over your way!!
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Author Closing Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36593834
Alan is awesome!  The experts on this site have been very helpful to me.  Thanks to all, thanks to Experts Exchange.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36593870
alan: IF you ever do come over my way, I'll buy you lunch.  Thanks for everything!
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36601063
ALAN:  Just a quick follow-up.  All seemed to go quite well and email is flowing.  However, I just checked event ID 1221 and there is 10 GB of free space in the database.  Why would there be that much white space after an offline defrag?

The database "First Storage Group\Mailbox Store (XXXXXXX)" has 10052 megabytes of free space after online defragmentation has terminated.
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by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36601695
Due to mailbox retention and the online maintenance clearing yet more space!

At least you know you have 10Gb of slack space to re-use before the database will grow again :)
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 36601825
Sweet.  I did not realize it would use the white space first before getting larger.  That is a good thing.
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Expert Comment

by:Alan Hardisty
ID: 36601853
Yep - that's what it does, so you have some time on your hands before the disk space gets eaten up again.
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Author Comment

by:12vltmn
ID: 37039724
ALAN:  I hope you get this, but it seems our problems are not over.  The same user is still having the same issue with receiving random email on his BB but not in his mailbox.  In addition, we now have one user who can send email but not receive, both internally and externally.  Even after the database maintenance, something is wacky.  Do you think we are hosed?
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Get people started with the process of using Access VBA to control Outlook using automation, Microsoft Access can control other applications. An example is the ability to programmatically talk to Microsoft Outlook. Using automation, an Access applic…
This Experts Exchange video Micro Tutorial shows how to tell Microsoft Office that a word is NOT spelled correctly. Microsoft Office has a built-in, main dictionary that is shared by Office apps, including Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, and Word. When …

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