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sudden reboots especially with video stress (game, benchmark, etc), replacing video card did not solve

Posted on 2011-09-30
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Last Modified: 2013-11-09
Here's the hardware:

Motherboard:
1 x ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Video:
1 x SAPPHIRE 100281SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity

Power Supply:
1 x ZALMAN ZM750-HP 750W Continuous @ 45°C (Maximum Continuous Peak: 850W) ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V V2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Modular LED Heatpipe-Cooled SLI P

CPU:
1 x Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601920

RAM:
1 x OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK

Boot Drive (SSD):
1 x Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Storage (HDD):
1 x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
1 x Western Digital Caviar Black WD1501FASS 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Windows 7 Ultimate.  


Ok, so the problem.  The computer suddenly shuts off, especially when there's some load on the video card, such as playing a game (Deus Ex 3) or running a benchmark (Heaven or sometimes Windows Experience Index).  Doubling the typical auto fan speed on the video card from about 22% to 45% definitely helps, although the temperature indicated by the Catalyst software shows it rarely going over 50c.  However, I just got a replacement under warranty today (same model, different card), but it has not solved the problem.  It just rebooted again during a Heaven benchmark, so I moved the card to the next slot on the mobo and the computer rebooted after about 5 minutes of Deus Ex.

If it does reboot, it will usually reboot again before Windows gets loaded up, and once it even rebooted like that while I was checking the BIOS.  One reboot means I have to intercept it and shut it off for at least a few minutes before starting up again.  It's been doing this for about a month or a little more.  

If not the video card, I don't know what could be causing this.  I'm planning to replace the memory (we tend to run a lot at once) as soon as I can figure out what would be best to get, but I don't expect that would be the problem.  However, we did have a memory issue in the past (resolved with a previous question here), so I don't want to rule that out.

There's also a weird thing with the BIOS sometimes changing the boot order since we got the SSD.  I don't suppose it's related, but I don't want to rule anything out without knowing.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Question by:Paul108h
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 36895033
Also, I upgraded to the latest BIOS about 3 weeks ago.

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Expert Comment

by:Dr. Klahn
ID: 36895215
... "If it does reboot, it will usually reboot again before Windows gets loaded up, and once it even rebooted like that while I was checking the BIOS.  One reboot means I have to intercept it and shut it off for at least a few minutes before starting up again."

This points at a thermal problem.  It is the exact same behavior I saw when tuning the overclocking on my 5850 while setting up a Bitcoin miner.  If the 5870 is overclocked, go back to the default configuration.  Confirm that automatic recovery is enabled in Catalyst Control Center.

The next place to look is on the motherboard.  If the manufacturer has a motherboard monitoring utility that can monitor temperatures on the motherboard, download it and run it.  If the manufacturer does not have a monitoring utility, see if the Intel system monitor will run and report temperatures.  Check the CPU temperatures.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 36895326
I've never overclocked the video on this machine.  Also, Catalyst required needed to be uninstalled and reinstalled after I moved the replacement card I received today to the middle pci-e slot, so any settings should have been default at that point.

I've been monitoring the temperatures regularly using Asus' PC Probe.  Presently the CPU is 38c and the mobo is 35c.  The case is a COOLER MASTER ATCS 840 and seems to have good cooling.  Fan speeds reported by PC Probe are cpu: 2008,   chassis2: 1088,   power: 703.  The voltages displayed by PcProbe are also all within range, except that I don't know the vcore range.  3.3v reads 3.23, 5v reads 5.19, and 12v reads 12.25.  Vcore is 0.94v at the moment but sometimes jumps to around 1.22v and back.

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by:Paul108h
ID: 36895356
I can't seem to find anything about "automatic recovery" in Catalyst.
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Accepted Solution

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hrr1963 earned 500 total points
ID: 36895755
When a computer shutdown from high temperature most of the time they don't reboot, just shutdown (to cool). I believe that this problem is more RELATED to the POWER SUPPLY, since it happens under high loads which require more power.

I have seen this problem with many power supply's. 750w doesn't mean that it can resist the load. I would check that.

*Check list:

Video card - Not possible it got replaced.
Memory's - Got replaced or fixed.
Motherboard - This is not usual for this type of problems.
CPU - Not overheated.
Power supply: Have not been mentioned by the author or by anyone. Can cause this problem.

Another part to test:
However you might also check the temperature of that SSD.
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Expert Comment

by:☠ MASQ ☠
ID: 36895762
Just in case check for error logs although if it's a thermal shutdown there probably won't be anything useful.

I've developed a very pragmatic approach to diagnosing overheating on gaming rigs nowadays which is to grab a copy of SpeedFan crank up all the fan options to maximum and run the monitoring using a remote machine, unless you want to watch benchmarking software or stress testing running (!)

That allows you to spot what is getting hotter than it should even though you have a box that sounds like a jet engine and should give you long enough to discriminate between components to find the actual culprit.

I think you're wise not to rule out RAM but you're more likely to find a crash dump file with a memory error than an overheating issue.
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Expert Comment

by:Deepu Chowdary
ID: 36895981
Also check whether processor fan is working or not, Incase of automatic reboot, go to event viewer and check why this was done.
make sure that this was not due to over heat.
If that is the case you may face otherboad related issues in comming few days.
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Expert Comment

by:Deepu Chowdary
ID: 36895983
Also make sure it is clean inside. Get it checked with a engineer iff possible.
Prevention is better than cure :)
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by:HawkeyeJoe
ID: 36896754
Your problem sounds very similar to one I faced a couple months ago. I went through an unbelievable gyration of changes to fix the problem, before I stumbled on a solution. I did a repair re installation of my Win 7 Pro. Apparently one/some of the drivers or apps had not copied correctly. The error was not severe enough to kill the system. But they were enough to crash the system one or twice every 24 hours. I was seeing the problem while playing Rift at the time. But it also occurred at other times. When I saw two crashes at the desktop, and the error log reported services hanging at boot, I knew it was critical. So I did the reinstall to recover the damages service files. Unexpectedly most of my other problems disappeared.
My resources:
1-Resource Monitor-Right click the task bar and start the task manager. Go to performance and there is a button to start the resource monitor. On the "Overview" tab, "CPU Table", look for "images" where the status is paused. Right click to select "analyse wait chain". Look for the lowest level hangup and cancel it to try to circumvent the problem.. Then select "CPU" tab, scan every table for any image/name that is hung repeat as you did for "Overview". This may help to focus on the source of your problem. In my experience, it is easier to start by doing a reinstall, whioch should not loose your installed programs and files, but will clear any system level inconsistences.
2-Repair Reinstall-I follow a very good procedure laid out in detail at this link:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/3413-repair-install.html

Good Luck. Yours is the kind of problem that leaves 29 year-olds with grey hair.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 36897311
Thanks folks.  

The logs reported by Whocrashed Pro are about three weeks old, but we're having rebooting daily. There's very little dust in there.  It's a nice case, and all the fans appear to be working.  Though I'm not a professional at it, I personally assembled all the parts and I do my best to keep it clean.  The CPU fan speed is usually around 2000 rpm, as I reported above last night.  I will look into SpeedFan soon.  I only have a few minutes now.

I've re-installed Windows, and the same problem persisted.  I've checked and updated all drivers, checked with Driver Genius, not today, but a few weeks ago.  Also, when the rebooting occurs, it will reboot again even in the bios.  I wouldn't expect Windows drivers to be relevant at that point.

I'm out of time for the moment, but my wife will type here next.
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by:Paul108h
ID: 36897522
Hello!  This is Paul's wife.  When my husband wrote here:  http://www.experts-exchange.com/Software/System_Utilities/Drivers/Q_26238347.html before about a different rebooting problem the solution turned out to be that the voltage default in the bios for the memory was incorrect.  I just wanted to mention that as I wonder if there could be any similar problem going on between our video card and motherboard.  Should or how can we check that out?

Also of note is that internet explorer doesn't work properly.  The mouse jerks.  When Paul last re-installed Windows the problem disappeared for sometime but has since reappeared.  I don't want to distract from our main problem here, I just wanted to mention that in case it provides any further clues.

How do we check the temperature of the ssd as hrr1963 suggests?  

We've been checking fan speeds and temperatures today and everything looks good.



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by:Deepu Chowdary
ID: 36898483
Update the windows and check you are facing the isue or not..
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by:nobus
ID: 36901992
if you want other Ram, use ASus' QVL to choose from - that always works
and what is really nice, it shows all the settings for it, timings AND voltages !
for temperatures - you can install speedfan, and if the SSD has a sensor, it will display it's temperature : http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php
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by:dbrunton
ID: 36906345
>>  Also of note is that internet explorer doesn't work properly.  The mouse jerks.  

Is this only in Internet Explorer or other applications?

Is this mouse USB?  If it is are there other USB devices plugged into the system?  And what speed are they, USB 1, 2 or 3.

You are getting reboots in the BIOS.  In my mind, that is pointing towards a hardware fault of some type.
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by:Paul108h
ID: 36907957
I think I may have solved the rebooting problem, but it points to another issue.  As mentioned above, we had a similar problem when I first put this computer together, and it was found that the memory voltage was too low.  The bios was setting its default too low, so it needed to be manually set.  Two days ago I was looking through the motherboard utilities and noticed that the memory was again down to 1.5v, so I used that utility to bring it up to 1.64v, and the computer has not crashed since, even under benchmark conditions.

What seems to be happening is that the bios resets to default values somewhat often, for some unknown reason, and apparently this reset the memory voltage down to 1.5.  Previously I thought the bios was just mixing up the boot order, which is immediately obvious when that happens, because it needs to be corrected to boot.  I upgraded the bios to the current version just about three weeks ago, but this problem of forgetting its settings existed before that and has continued.  At least if there's another crash, I'll know to check the voltages again.

So in summary, although it may be a little too soon to say for sure, it appears that the rebooting issue is resolved, except that I do not know why the bios often forgets its proper settings.
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by:nobus
ID: 36908109
look if the bios battery is not getting low  - it has to be 3V; if not, replace it!
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by:dbrunton
ID: 36912192
Curious.

Is the memory the same type/brand or mixed?
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37123628
I'm back.  The problem is not solved, but I made a significant discovery.  The memory voltage is resetting to an incorrect default at seemingly random times.  Whether I set it in the BIOS (a few times) or with TurboV (frequently) to 1.65V, sooner or later it will reset back to 1.5V.  Tonight it changed back to 1.5V from 1.65V about an hour after I set it, which I checked immediately after the  computer crashed.  I think the voltage has dropped like that before the crash, but I am not completely sure.  I believe this is what's causing the computer to crash, but I do not know why the voltage setting keeps changing or how do fix it.
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by:nobus
ID: 37123767
there can be an automatic detection going on - i believe your best bet is to use 1.5V ram
you can also try another brand - maybe you can still swap them ?
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37129130
I'm reluctant to buy hardware without knowing for sure that it is the problem.  However I would be willing to buy new RAM because 6gb doesn't seem to be enough for us.  I'm not very confident in my ability to choose a good set of RAM though, so it may take a while to get something unless someone can advise of a good match for my motherboard.  

Aside from the instability with the system resetting, movies that we play often appear blocky (blocks about a centimeter across) with images sometimes not transitioning normally, and the system is sometimes excruciatingly slow, so that Windows Explorer often takes a minute or more to sort the contents of a folder with 400 items in it and mouse gestures are not possible distinctly to make at a reasonable speed (for example a L shape turns out more like \  ).

I tried playing Deus Ex III last night but could not get the game to run for more than ten minutes without the computer resetting.  I tried several times, and this included one time that it changed the boot hard drive sequence so that it tried to boot to a different drive instead of the ssd, and one spontaneous reset while in the bios less than a minute after the preceding crash.  I had to power off the computer for the night to let it "cool off" or something.  
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by:☠ MASQ ☠
ID: 37129786
This is the QVL for your motherboard.  This means that Asus have tested these sticks
Your current OCZ 6GB pack is listed as fully compatible though so unless faulty I wouldn't replace it at this stage.

Which BIOS version are you running?

There have been two updates for this board which are listed as improving memory stability
http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6X58D_Premium/#download
P6X58D-Premium-Memory-QVL.pdf
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37131101
The BIOS version is 1501, which is the latest release.  The issue has persisted after at least one BIOS update.
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37143148
I just changed the CMOS battery but that did not help.  The computer restarted about ten minutes after first booting up with the new battery, when I was testing it by playing Deus Ex III.  I did not test the voltage of either of them, but the new battery is new.
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by:nobus
ID: 37143930
what happens if you only use 1.5 V ram - as asked?
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37145097
I have the RAM listed above, which is an approved  RAM and which has tested ok. I cannot afford to buy hardware just to try and see if it works  better.  If that's the strategy, I could have saved my subscription fee here and spent it on random hardware instead.

I'm fine with buying new memory because it's about time to upgrade anyway, but what if the fault is really on the motherboard or something else?
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by:nobus
ID: 37146528
that is not what i asked - you have 2 kinds of ram  - i only ask to test with the 1.5 V kind  -that's all; then you know if that is the trouble - or not
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37149370
I don't know what is meant by "2 kinds of ram."  There is a single set of three memory sticks installed, and I don't have any other memory for this.  The QVL indicates the memory voltage should be 1.65, but the BIOS defaults it to 1.5v.  Both settings are unstable.  At present it's set at 1.64v, with the default settings of 1066-7-7-7-16.  
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by:nobus
ID: 37151427
ok - sorry then, i must have msiread it..
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by:dbrunton
ID: 37165062
It seems you are running 3 sticks of RAM.

Can you try it with just two?
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37165333
Paul,

Unfortunately the ASUS 58 series motherboards have been problematic, especialy their alleged use any memory statements. Although ASUS states that both 1.5 and 1.65 V memory can be used, the BIOS is not written that way. The P6X58D has a default value of 1.5v and a check of the SPD on the memory stick will cause a sudden reboot if the value is not 1.5v.

To stop the random reboots, try this and then we can move on to memory issues and recommendations:

1. Click on the Start button and then on Control Panel

2. Click on the System and Security link

3. Click on the System link.
 
4. In the task pane on the left, click the Advanced system settings link.
 
5. Locate the Startup and Recovery section near the bottom of the window and click on the Settings button.
 
6. In the Startup and Recovery window, locate and uncheck the check box next to Automatically restart.
 
7. Click OK in the Startup and Recovery window.
 
8. Click OK in the System Properties window.
 
9. N now close the System window.
 
10. From now on, when a problem causes a BSOD or another major error that halts the system, Windows 7 will not force a reboot. You'll have to reboot manually when an error appears.

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by:dew_associates
ID: 37165348
The ASUS BIOS you have is written by American Megatrends and is, among other things, designed around the DDR3 PC3-10600, DDR3 PC3-12800, DDR3 PC3-8500 memory values, relying on  strict DDR3 (non-ECC) standards at either 1.35v or 1.5v. In order to use higher voltages, you have to change BIOS settings to overclock the entire system rather than mere changing memory voltages, hence the return to 1.5v on restart. You'll find all of the settings in the Ai Tweaker.

Personally, I would move over to Crucial on the memory. No, I have no interest in Crucial, but I have found them to be more stable on this board as well as the Giga-Byte and Intel 58 based boards.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37166660
dbrunton,  I can try two later today.

dew_associates,  Thanks a lot for that info.  I de-selected the automatic reboot as you indicated.  I've spent plenty of time looking at the BIOS (not changing much) but I have not learned what the overclocking variables mean or how they relate to each other to make a stable system.  Previously I just assumed the default values would work.  

Since you mentioned Crucial memory, I looked at the QVL but I guess I'm confused because it appears that none of this brand has a recommended memory voltage listed below 1.65.  I don't know what N/A means in this context.  
   
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37166708
After unchecking the automatic restart, I raised the QPI/DRAM Core Voltage from the default 1.2 to 1.25Vand then tried playing Deus Ex to see if that would work.  I was able to play for about 20 minutes before the system rebooted just the same as before.  
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by:nobus
ID: 37166832
i suggested some time ago using 1.5 sticks
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37167106
Paul,

Removing merely one memory stick will do nothing as the motherboard requires that 3 slots be filled. That said, the motherboard has a memory test feature that allows you to test each module in slot A1 by removing two sticks, leaving one in slot A1 and attempting a test boot. Repeat the process for the other 2 sticks to verify the individual memory module (sticks).

I read through your 2010 question post again and compared the hardware list from then to the one posted above and it appears that you made some changes. This raises the question of whether your system has ever been stable. Has it? And if yes, what has changed since.

Here is what I see. By switching off the OS autmated restart, you have eliminated the operating system itself as the culprit, except maybe for some preipheral driver issues with a particular device.  The thought of the motherboard changing values at reboot raises issues of its own, specifically whether the problem is the motherboard itself or one of the mounted components (memory) (video card) etc.

Before overclocking the processor, let's try and develop a stable system:

Reset the CMOS to its default settings, essentially returning the BIOS to its default settings. Once that is done, find the MemOK button on the motherboard and press it. This will force the motherboard to read the SPD on the memory modules. IF the memory modules are 1.65 as you say they are, then the motherboard's MemOK feature should see that. Now test the system as before.


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by:dew_associates
ID: 37167114
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37168856
I've just reset all the overclocking options to default in the BIOS.

This computer had the trouble similar to this from the start, as you read about in my first question, which we addressed as described there, by changing the memory voltage from the default to 1.64 or 1.65.  That made the system reasonably stable, and it's reasonably stable now as long as I don't run a video benchmark or play a game like Deus Ex III.  I didn't really notice the problem.

I had a hard drive fail and replaced it with the SSD.  I'm not sure if that has caused any problem, but there's something possibly related.  Sometimes the BIOS moves the SSD from the first hard drive position to the third, so that Windows fails to boot and it asks for a boot disk or something.  (I don't remember the exact message.)  The frequency has varied, but it happened today after I reset to BIOS defaults.  Other times the SSD is moved out of the first boot position  

I'm finding the default BIOS settings too unstable to use.  It rebooted many times in the past hour, and I just had to let it cool down for a while.  I'm going to test each RAM next, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to set the voltage back up to 1.64 or 1.65 to use the computer for more than a few minutes at a time.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37168875
I wanted to send that before the computer shut down.  

As I was saying, I have wondered if the automatic changing of the SSD out of the first position in the BIOS was related to the memory changing to 1.5V by itself, and if this was causing the instability. With memory voltage set to 1.64 or 1.65 it's much more stable.

The hardware changes since I first assembled the computer have been adding and removing hard drives, adding a SSD as the boot drive, and the video card which was replaced with another of the same model.
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37168894
The memOK gave a happy message about the system booting, but then about 15 seconds later the system rebooted and then rebooted again.  I turned it off.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37168923
Since pressing the reset button and then the memOK button, it gave that message about successfully booting, but it hasn't been able to stay on long enough to get to Windows.  What settings should I use?
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by:nobus
ID: 37169191
i still recommend using 1.5V ram - have them warranty repalced
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37170868
>>Since pressing the reset button and then the memOK button, it gave that message about successfully booting, but it hasn't been able to stay on long enough to get to Windows.  What settings should I use?

Paul,

Change only the voltage for the memory to 1.65v and see if the system stabilizes.

Unfortunately you have made so many changes since you assembled this system, it's difficult to pinpoint what exactly is causing the problem. The memory modules you have are on the ASUS tested list, so unless one happens to be bad, then this should be the issue.

One of the hardware components you have installed is causing the BIOS to reset itself. The other possibility is that the motherbaord itself is the issue. If testing the memory modules and resetting only their voltage does't work, then were I faced with the same situation, I would look to start from scratch by stripping the system to its basic components, eliminate the SSD and put one SATA drive on the first SATA connector and return the video card to its proper slot - see if the system boots normally and then load Windows 7.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37174904
I pressed the reset button and the memOK button again last night just before going to bed, after the system had been off for about 40 minutes, and it gave the same messages but then booted up fine.  I haven't had a chance to test it yet or do anything else with this computer, but my wife and kids have been running it all day with regular use (MS Word, a few web browsers, VLC [video playback is often poor in any player, producing a variety of distortions such as blocks or images that do not fully transition for a while]) without the system failures.  I'm going to find out if it can handle Deus Ex now; maybe it'll surprise me.

TurboV indicates that the DRAM Bus Voltage is 1.5.

Later in the week I should be able to do some of the testing of components.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37174937
nobus,  

I would be surprised to see a memory manufacturer give me a different set of memory under warranty, when the only problem apparently is compatibility, and I'm not even sure what is at fault.  It does appear that new memory may be needed, but I don't think we're certain yet, and having already replaced my video card under warranty without any benefit, I want to be a little more careful now.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37174972
>>TurboV indicates that the DRAM Bus Voltage is 1.5

That's fine, but what does the BIOS say?

Honestly I'm not certain the issue is memory. A memory issue wouldn't cause the BIOS to reset itself, including drive locations unless there was a total incompatibility.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37175187
It says "auto" but on the right says standard is 1.5.  

It lasted about 15 minutes of Deus Ex with no action, and now I'm letting it rest because it can't boot up at either 1.5 or 1.65v at the moment.

I saw tonight there is a firmware upgrade for the ssd, so I intend to do that asap though there are no release notes.  
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by:nobus
ID: 37175375
there are lots of shops and resellers who don't make a problem of it
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37176742
You say it can't boot up at either 1.5 or 1.65

What exactly is happening that causes you to say this?
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37177204
After the first time I pressed the reset button followed by the memOK button, it gave a message saying that the memOK resulted in a successful boot, but about 15 seconds later it rebooted again  and again and again until I could get to the power supply switch.  

I then let it rest about 10 minutes and tried again and got into the bios to change the memory voltage but it rebooted again.  I don't remember if I got to try the 1.65v before the reboot.  I let it rest longer, tried the reset and memOK again,.and this time it worked for moderate use all day but crashed when I tried a.game.  Then it needed to stay off again for several minutes before it would stay on.

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by:dew_associates
ID: 37178131
Paul,

Although I have my suspicions as to why your system is performing as it is, your solution may be to start rulling out problems short of dismanteling the system to just the basics and then build the system back up one component at a time - you've been working on this close to two years.

Start with the memory - remove two sticks and run memtest on that stick - and then perform the same tests on the two remaining, one at a time. You'll find memtest here:

http://www.memtest.org/

Dennis
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by:Paul108h
ID: 37196531
Memtest could not complete.  The first time I ran it with one stick in slot A1, andthe computer reboot when the test was about 28% done.  Then I tried it with just one stick in slot B1 (the stick that's usually in it), about five minutes after the guest stick failed, and it rebooted around five percent.  It did similarly with all three sticks in.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37196689
Paul,

We need to establish a baseline for the testing. That said, use only slot A1 for testing individual modules and only test one at a time.

Boot windows into safemode only, which will disable many of the processes normally used as well as using basic driver configurations.

Try the tests again, one module at a time and let us know what the result is.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37196692
Paul,

Pull out the manual for your motherboard and turn to section 2.4.2 of the manual and make sure that your memory modules comply with the specifications shown.

Dennis
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 37196765
about the saùe i've been telling
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37211479
Memtest 2.4 boots from a cd and does not use Windows.  all three of the memory sticks tested in slot A1 resulted in a reboot before the tests were 20% done.  The memory installation complies with 2.4.2 of the motherboard manual.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37211664
That's fine, but memtest can be run from a safemode environment. If you're getting a reboot at 20% for all 3 modules I suspect that it isn't necessarily the memory but there's a good chance the motherboard is the problem. ASUS has had problems with the particular board and if you run a google search you'll see what I am referring to.

If I were in your shoes, I would go to Crucial's website and use their memory selector and pickup up a 3 piece memory set. Relatively cheap. Run the same tests again and it the same problem crops up, then you know it's the motherboard and crucial will take the memory modules back.

Dennis
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by:nobus
ID: 37212144
if the motherboard is the cause, i would have a warranty replacement..
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37265627
I bought and installed new memory in place odd what is listed above.  Now it's:

Crucial Ballistix BLT3KIT4G3D1608DT1TX0 12GB kit (4GBx3)

The rebooting problem is not solved.  It worked well for a day and was able to run some video benchmarking, but about fifteen minutes of Deus Ex resulted in a reboot, and then another before windows could start again.  The computer is off now.

There isn't much left to replace.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37265693
Unfortunately Paul as I noted in my 11/30/2011 post, based upon all of the examples of your motherboard that have had similar problems, you have narrowed the issue you're experiencing to the motherboard as the problem.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37334822
Just checking in for a fyi...  I'm waiting for a replacement motherboard under warranty.  Hopefully it will get here soon and that will fix it.
0
 

Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37470244
I just installed a replacement motherboard (same model) under warranty.  The Windows Experience Index ran successfully and the video results improved from 7.2 to 7.8.  (They've had various results in that range, but this was an impressive jump.)  Then I ran the Unigine Heaven benchmark, not actually benchmarking but just running the video, and it caused a reboot after about 20 minutes.

So we have replaced the video card, the memory, and the motherboard, but the problem is not solved.  
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37470641
Are you running default settings, including the memory manufacturers recommended power settings for the memory?
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by:nobus
ID: 37471725
then the problem is narrowed down to the rest : the didk drive and it's contents imo = software mainly
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37472303
Hopefully Paul would have done a fresh installation of the OS after replacing the motherboard.
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by:nobus
ID: 37473028
not since it was the same model as he posted
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37473099
You know this for a fact or is this merely speculation on your part?
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37473150
The motherboard is the same model as before, & same bios version.  I pressed the memOK button at startup for it to start with defaults, and a message said it worked.  However it rebooted ten minutes into playing Deus Ex 3, just like it did when running Unigine Heaven.

I did not just install a fresh o.s.

  When I first booted it up, windows said it was a new processor, but it a was the same cpu moved to the new (refurb) board.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37473180
A windows installation creates a new Hardware Extraction Layer unique to the components installed, and in spite of comments by hackers and pundits, there are no short cuts. You're trying to sort out problems on this particular machine, and not reinstalling the OS will just add another layer of issues.
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 37473302
FYI  - he posted it above
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37473325
Well, reinstalling windows can be fun.  Lol.  Glad it's the weekend.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37473604
Keep us posted
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37476692
Can this windows installation be done as an "upgrade"?  I was going to assume a fresh install, but it's asking if I want to do an upgrade (same version though) and that is tempting.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37476900
You can, but the problem is that if there is are erroneous registry entries it may not fix them. You would be better served by foratting the drive and doing a fresh instalation. Pay particular attention to the video card drivers. Verify that the drivers you have are not experiencing problems.
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by:nobus
ID: 37478406
i avoid upgrading when possible because you inherit all existing problems
best delete the partition before installing - you have a backup, yes?
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37483731
Ok, formatted c: and reinstalled windows 7 plus a few programs.  It's as unstable as ever, and has rebooted several times today, even in Express Gate.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37483797
What errors are showing up in the windows logs?
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37484180
The following is everything reported by WhoCrashed, but all these crashes occurred while I was not home and I was told they were blue screens.  Then I saw at least five spontaneous reboots in about 80 minutes while I was home doing nothing strenuous with the computer, and none of those reboots show up on these logs:



On Mon 1/23/2012 4:39:13 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\012312-30061-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7CC40)
Bugcheck code: 0xF4 (0x3, 0xFFFFFA800B765190, 0xFFFFFA800B765470, 0xFFFFF80002FD08B0)
Error: CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


On Mon 1/23/2012 4:39:13 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0xF4 (0x3, 0xFFFFFA800B765190, 0xFFFFFA800B765470, 0xFFFFF80002FD08B0)
Error: CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
Bug check description: This indicates that a process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


On Mon 1/23/2012 2:45:16 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\012312-29905-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7CC40)
Bugcheck code: 0xF4 (0x3, 0xFFFFFA800B789750, 0xFFFFFA800B789A30, 0xFFFFF80002F9E8B0)
Error: CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


On Mon 1/23/2012 12:50:54 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\012312-29671-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7CC40)
Bugcheck code: 0xF4 (0x3, 0xFFFFFA800B3A6A30, 0xFFFFFA800B3A6D10, 0xFFFFF80002F8C8B0)
Error: CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a process or thread crucial to system operation has unexpectedly exited or been terminated.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.



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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 37484258
Paul,

Explain to me, step by step, how you loaded the OS and the necessary drivers. Be as detailed and thorough as possible and try and stay in sequence.

Dennis
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37484390
I booted the windows 7 disk, formatted c, and then installed windows w/ sp1.  In windows, I first installed the video drivers from the manufacturer's web site.  Then I installed the motherboard drivers from the asus site.  I don't remember the exact order, but sound was last of the motherboard drivers.  Then I ran windows update, installing the various windows patches and drivers for the webcam & keyboard.  

Would divers installed with Windows affect Express Gate?  

At this point it wouldn't be a big deal to do the installation again if there's a better procedure or order it should be done.  I figure video first so I can see full screen, then I go in what seems like order of importance and finishing with windows updates.
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Expert Comment

by:dew_associates
ID: 37484470
Actually there is a recommended method for installing the OS and drivers.
*Make sure that you have the latest firmware for the crucial drive.

1. Install the OS
  *Are you using Marvell drivers?

2. Install the motherboard drivers

3. Install the video drivers

4. The install all other drivers by level of importance.
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37508508
I wonder if this could be caused by a network worm.  I have a recently opened question on that, and I wonder if they could be related.  That has kept us busy, so I haven't had time to reformat again yet.
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by:dew_associates
ID: 37508936
Keep us informed
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Expert Comment

by:nobus
ID: 37511042
since it is unstable on a fresh install, i suggest to test how it behaves when booted from a live knoppix cd (other os, and drivers) - how frequent are the BSOD ?
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V6.7.0CD-2011-08-01-EN.iso  

also, post the minidump here for more info -  find it in windows minidumps, and attach as file
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Author Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37606795
I bought a new power supply last week (a Corsair 700W model, as i recall) and since it had been installed the computer has been quite stable.  It appears that this is the solution.  It's actually quite amazing to see this computer functioning normally.  Thanks to everyone for your assistance, and especially a belated thanks to hrr1963 for putting the answer in bold over 4 months ago.
0
 

Author Closing Comment

by:Paul108h
ID: 37606832
The solution was given, in bold even, but as an "it could be this," which was not convincing enough to buy new hardware until other possible solutions were evaluated.  However, it was correct and influential in getting the computer fixed.  Points well deserved.  I'm very happy to have my computer working right.
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