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# Holocaust - owen argument

Posted on 2011-10-11
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Hi,

I had a discussion with an aquintance on holocaust and we did not agree on the scale of the holocaust. Being a PhD candidate myself, I am positive to "main-stream" science, i.e., I think the number 6 million jews (including the jews dying on various fronts etc) is rather accurate. I agree with previous discussions (http://www.experts-exchange.com/Other/Philosophy_Religion/Q_21294885.html?sfQueryTermInfo=1+10+30+holocaust) that there is a lack of trustworth material on the subject.

Now I need argument to COUNTER the "Owen/energy argument", i.e., the argument stating that there wouldn't have been enough energy to burn +5 million jews. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

/Henrik
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Question by:henrikatwork

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Author Comment

Yes, you are completely right! Please change the zone and offer 200 pts for the question.

Cheers!
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Expert Comment

There are several points.
First     5 million Jews were not burned. (NOTE: I did not say 5 million Jews were not killed)
Second   I strongly suspect the the starting point -(How much energy does it take to burn a Jew?)
is wrong. In the theory that you mentioned what is that figure?
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Author Comment

This page looks very unserious, but I suppose it must be this data (?) or something very similar to it, that my aquintance refered to http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html .

Mythologists allege that 120,000 people/month could be cremated at Auschwitz. Again, Irving invites you to do the math: Assume that each cadaver weighs 125 pounds; crematoria can dispose of 150 lbs/hr., therefor, you would need 139 ovens working 24/7 to cremate 120,000 people/mo. There were only 46 ovens at Auschwitz and the crematoria could not and did not operate 24/7. ¶Irving points out: "it takes 30 kilograms of coke to incinerate one body -- it would take many trainloads of coke to incinerate 120,000 corpses. "Aerial reconnaissance photos of Auschwitz do not show huge piles of coke."  The same photos -- contrary to malicious, lying "witnesses" and tortured confessors -- show no evidence of smoke and flame belching from malfunctioning crematoria chimneys or huge aerodynamically inefficient smouldering cremation pits, where sizzling human fat was "scooped up in buckets." NOVA mythologists -- defying laws of thermodynamics --declare only 3.5 kg of coke is necessary to cremate one corpse. (Lard, i.e., human fat = 8.4 kilo-calories/kg; coke has 3000 kcal/kg.)
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Accepted Solution

Huh?  On nutrition labels fat has about 9kcal/g, not per kilogram.  People should burn pretty well once you boil off the water.
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Expert Comment

RE:- " Now I need argument to COUNTER the "Owen/energy argument", "

Science is not about advocacy it is about the truth. The question should be is the  "Owen/energy argument" correct or not correct.
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Assisted Solution

1 food Calorie = 1000 SI calorie

fat has more energy than coke, and the argument is not correct
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Author Comment

Ozo, can you please develop your answer a bit more? You seem to be down the lane I'm locking for!!
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Expert Comment

cremations were not done one at a time but many at one time. The cremations were not complete.
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Author Comment

Aburr, how does that make it to cause less energy? Is there any reference on that?
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Expert Comment

If you do 100 at a time you have to heat up the oven fewer times. If the bones are not reduced to carbon, less energy is used.
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Expert Comment

One can nit pik that the numbers do not add up, one can create impossible statistics but one can not deny the hundreds of photographs which are available.  See
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/world-war-ii-the-holocaust/100170/
for photos which will turn your stomach
They also show that thousands were not gassed and were not cremated. so the impossible number theory in nonsense.
However there will always be people who say that the evidence is not good enough because it was not noterized or atested to by thirteen people or whatever test they want to set up. Besides most of the photographers are now dead and cannot testify under oath, etc etc etc
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Expert Comment

well, for me as a Polish guy (Auschwitz is in Poland) this discussion is rather disgusting, seriously.
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Expert Comment

Agreed.
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Author Closing Comment

I wanted to understand mass-cremation. Some answers were helpful, but I still had to do most of the homework myself. I would have continued the thread, but with trolls starting to put comments without any relevance it was time to close it.
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