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OMG Microsoft Licensing is so confuddled

I am building a server for personal/small business use. This is a enjoyment of mine so personally I want it to be great, and everything would be great except for Microsoft supremlly confusing licencing model.
So.........here are my needs.

Remote Access for 5 users at any given time
Run SQL server for up to 10 computers on LAN running a third party program that reads/writes to the SQL database
Very fast access to the database (100MB-300MB Size of Database)

Those are my only needs and this is what I have so built so far

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz
16 GB of RAM
1.5 TB 7500 RPM HD
120 GB Kingston HyperX SSD
Onboard Video
Gigabyte LAN Port
Gigabyte Switch
10/100 on all LAN Computers

All good !!!

So it seems that I need....

Microsoft Server 2008 R2 Standard
Microsoft SQL Sever Workgroup

The part I am confused most about is the CALs...why are there CALs for Sever 2008 and SQL Server???

Any help/pointers/tips/thoughts/advice is worth it weight in gold and are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
James
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JTechComputer
Asked:
JTechComputer
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2 Solutions
 
Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
A CAL is a client access license.  To access file and print functionality and be authenticated (via domain or locally in a workgroup) requires a Windows Server Client Access License.  This license does not include Remote Desktop Services or SQL or Exchange or most "add-on" functionality.

To access the SQL Server, each client that will access the SQL server requires a SQL Client Access License.

SQL is not a part of Windows.  So you need different CALs for that.

Further, Microsoft does NOT license per concurrent connection.  They license by USER or DEVICE.  This means if you have 20 users and 40 computers (each user has a laptop and a desktop, for example) but no more than 10 will ever access the resources at the same time, you still need 20 User CALs.  If they licensed concurrently, you'd only need 10, but they don't.

It's practical to license by device when users will ONLY work on selected devices in one location and/or you have many users sharing a few computers (like in a call center where they might have three 8 hour shifts)

I don't know ALL the details, but I'd like to think I've got a good grasp on this... any more questions?

And, don't forget my disclaimer:
DISCLAIMER: Licensing advice offered here is a "best effort" and based on the understanding of the respondents. Licenses can change and we may not be aware of these changes or may misunderstand them. Further, licenses can differ by country and/or region and what we understand to be true in our region could be false in your region. "they told me on Experts-Exchange" will not be a valid defense in a software audit.  All licensing questions should be confirmed with the appropriate licensing authority (the maker of the software/issuer of the license).  
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mozculluCommented:
CAL is the license needed for each client to connect to a Microsoft Product.

There are 2 maintypes of licensing for SQL:

Connection licensing in which  you get a CAL license for each user that will connect to the SQL Server
CPU Licensing in which you gat a license for each CPU socket on the server and unlimited number of users will be connected. this is widely used for services working for internet or ver big intranets.

Also keep in mind that if your users are using an application that is using SQL somehow will need a SQL CAL license (This is called multiplexing)

There is a site from microsoft taht you can get more details:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/client-access-license.aspx



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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
So I need 5 user server 2008 CALs and 10 SQL Device CALs?
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
Maybe.  How many users do you have?  How will they work?  Will they only connect to the network from the office or will they remote in in any way?

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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
> Remote Access for 5 users at any given time
This implies that you have more than 5 users but you only expect 5 at a time to connect.

If you have only 5 users, then only get 5 SQL User CALs as you won't need to license each device since each user has a license... unless you have MORE than 10 users...?
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Only 5 users for RDP total. They will be typically accessing from the sames machines 99.9% of the time.

However

I also have, on top of that, 10 other machines that only need SQL access all the time.

The two are separate and distinct, and that is where I am confused.

5 RDP Users from the same machines
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10 SQL from the same machines

The RDP Machines & the SQL machines are different. The RDP machines are managers laptops and the SQL machines are stationary terminals.
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kevinhsiehCommented:
From what you have described you need CALs for three different products.

You will need Windows 2008 CALs for each person or device. It sounds like you need at least 15 total from what you have mentioned so far.

You will need Remote Desktop CALs for each person or device. It sounds like you will have 5 people using Remote Desktop, so get 5 Remote Desktop User CALs.

You will also need 10 SQL Device CALs from whatyou have described. Your SQL database is very small. If you can run it under SQL Server Express you won't need to buy SQL Server Workgroup or any SQL CALs.  
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
Again, you're not clear.  It would help if you provided a detailed explanation.

You said:
> Only 5 users for RDP total. They will be typically accessing from the sames machines 99.9% of the time.
Will they be accessing a Remote Desktop Server ($$$) -- or their office workstations (free unless you use an RDS Gateway)?

You then say:
> The RDP machines are managers laptops
If they are laptops, why aren't they taking them with them?   They have laptops but are using them as desktops and will remotely connect to them?

I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand -- I advise clients all the time on licensing needs... and when I encounter difficulty like this it's usually because I can't see the environment and the person asking the question is only providing information they feel is relevant and leaving out details they should be including.

What does the business do? how do they work?  I know this started out as a licensing question, but perhaps if you can explain in greater detail, we can offer a method to save you money and increase your productivity.  For many of us, this is what we do daily -- look for ways to maximize a company's efficiency while spending the least money (that's the value of a good trusted advisor (consultant).
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Thanks everyone for the help. I hope this helps explain the needs. Let me know if I missed something.
Server.png
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kevinhsiehCommented:
Do the people on the laptops access software that accesses the SQL server? If yes, then they need SQL CALS. If no, then they don't need SQL CALs.

@leew, my understanding is that RDS Gateway by itself doesn't require RDS CALs, but CALs would be required for accessing a Remote Desktop Services Host.

Based on the diagram, here's what I see

15 Windows 2008 R2 User CALs
10 SQL 2008 R2 CALs
5 Remote Desktop User CALs
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
The reason the laptops use RDP is so that they can use the software locally on the server. So yes they use it, but not really "on the laptops".

kevinhsieh,
are you saying that I need three types of CALs?
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kevinhsiehCommented:
Yes, you need 3 types of CALs: Windows, SQL, Remote Desktop.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Wow...I understand what functions the SQL and Remote Desktop CALS server, but what fuctions do the Windows CALs allow?
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kevinhsiehCommented:
The Windows CALs allow you to access the Windows Server(s) in the very first place.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Hmmm..... that is only true if the server is part of a domain though right? Neither of my servers are on a domain, they are both in workgroups.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
Yes, I agree. As I understand it now,

5 RDS User CALs (one for each user of the laptops)
10 SQL Device CALs (one for each computer accessing the SQL server).  You would need 15 SQL Device CALs if you want to allow the managers access; licensing an RDS server with a single device CAL is not valid - the END POINTS must be licensed, meaning the laptops (or go with user CALs and license the persons).
15 Windows CALs.

I found this to be a handy, fairly clear explanation:
http://www.directionsonmicrosoft.com/_IAITAM/Ten_CAL_Commandments_FINAL.pdf
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
> Hmmm..... that is only true if the server is part of a domain though right?
> Neither of my servers are on a domain, they are both in workgroups.

Quoting the second sentence from the very first posted comment.

To access file and print functionality and be authenticated (via domain or locally in a workgroup) requires a Windows Server Client Access License.
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kevinhsiehCommented:
Those are the CAL counts as I see them.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
I don't know why people seem to think only domains require CALs - but I see this often.  It's not true.  SERVER ACCESS requires a CAL, domain or workgroup doesn't matter.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
I guess I am missing something. I have two servers currently and have never purchased/configured a CAL for anything. Put a share folder on  the server, any computer on the workgroup can connect to it. I can bring 10 laptops in and connect and print to them no problem.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
You are violating licensing then.

CALs are licenses - they are not "installed" in the computer.  They are documented so that when an employee or someone else reports you to the Business Software Alliance (or similar organization) that advertises on the radio offering rewards to reporting license violations, you can provide the evidence that you have the correct licenses.

You might want to read about Software audits.  No police come to your business, but you are sent a letter asking you to prove you purchased all required licenses prior to the receipt of that letter.  If you can't you are sued for the cost of the licenses and penalties that can put a small business out of business.

Not saying you are PURPOSELY trying to violate licensing (and part of this comment is intended for those who might subsequently read this question), but people often don't understand and almost no one ever actually reads a license agreement (I often skip them myself, but I HAVE read several, including several for Microsoft products, out of curiosity).  And sometimes you might think, "well, I haven't been bothered, so why should I "waste" the money.  To those people and to my clients who want to violate licensing from time to time, I point out that there is NO DIFFERENCE outside of the likelihood of getting caught between installing software without a license and walking into a store with a self checkout and trying to walk out without paying for some things.  Either you're an honest person or your not.
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kevinhsiehCommented:
I agree with leew. I would also like to add that OEM and retail copies of Windows Server usually include 5 Windows CALs. Windows Enterprise usually includes 25 CALs, so you may need to buy a little less than you thought.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
You should double check this with whatever reseller you buy from, but I believe all versions of Windows Server include CALs. (If I remember correctly, I've asked Ingram about copies of SBS when I've called them to order).
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kevinhsiehCommented:
@leew, my experience with volume licensing is that volume license copies of Windows Server do NOT include CALs, particularly when buying at the Select level. Not so sure about Open. Enterprise Agreements probably also do not include CALs with the Server license.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
Select may be true... not sure about Enterprise Agreements though.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
That seems harsh? How is someone supposed to know that you have to licence every computer with out doing independent research? What if Microsoft put in their agreement that you have to have a licence for every USB device that you plug in to your computer. That is their right, but shouldn't there be a pop-up/warning/notification that you need to licence it.
Instead it seems that they just let it work anyway with no warnings and then hope that an anti-piracy company finds and sues you?
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
I'm not trying to be insulting or anything like that, just trying to explore analogies to counter your example for arguments sake..

Shouldn't everyone get a warning when they break the law rather than a ticket or be thrown in jail?  I mean, new laws are made all the time, how are we supposed to keep up with them?  As an extreme example, shouldn't I just get a warning the first time I kill someone texting while driving?  Unless I've been told and signed off on it how does anyone know I'm aware of the new law and its penalties... I may not choose to watch TV, read the papers, listen to news radio, or read news on the internet.

How is that significantly different than what a company decides it wants to do in terms of controlling how their intellectual property is put to use?

> How is someone supposed to know that you have to license every
> computer with out doing independent research?
Keep proper records.  Every time software is purchased, put the receipt in a folder called software licensing (or something similar).  Or buy volume licenses which then are tracked (in a sense) for you on the Microsoft Volume Licensing system.  If companies take licensing seriously, then it really shouldn't be a significant hassle to track what you have.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Because they have a medium and a reasonable means to communicate their licencing requirements, but they choose not to. If I try install Microsoft Office it asks for a product key, when I go to use a paid online service it asks for a user name and password, and when I try and RDP into my server with three users at once it will not let me, which is what prompts the question in the first place. Those are all great methods to communicate to your users how you want to structure your licencing agreement.
I still don't even understand how it works. How do you assign a CAL to a computer?
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
To counter your analogy, from what has been explained so far it is more like entrapment than anything. Their licencing is not communicated by them on an end user level through their software, the licencing is very confusing, even for someone who is knowledgeable about computers and software, and the very thing that they will investigate/sue you for is allowed in their software without any hacks/modifications when it could easily be blocked and include a product key/licence number input.....
So why do they base it off an honor system instead of inputting paid licencing credentials like every other product they have made in the last decade?
Again what if they put in the terms and conditions that you must get a licence for every USB device, but let them work without one and made no effort on the end user level to communicate the need for a licence through their software. I plug it in, it works, I think that everything is fine.
No other version of windows that I have ever used required a licence to share a folder. Why would I assume that this one does? I think that it is a fault on their part and not that of the end user.
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Lee W, MVPTechnology and Business Process AdvisorCommented:
> Because they have a medium and a reasonable means to communicate
> their licencing requirements, but they choose not to.

Ah, but they DO - there is a license agreement and a checkbox you MUST check that - and you should only check the box if you've read the license agreement - I WISH my car had a system that whenever I got in it, it popped up a dialog that told me all the new laws that applied since the last time I drove... but while the technology is getting there for some new cars, it's not and I doubt they'd ever FORCE you to read about all the new laws - just like MS doesn't "force" you to read the license agreement.  They make you do something to ensure you're aware that you should - that they have one, but they don't hold a gun to your head and tell you you absolutely must read it.

> How do you assign a CAL to a computer?
This is an administrative task.  In MOST cases, people should license by user in which case it's not assigned to the computer it's assigned to the user.  And since MOST businesses don't have large numbers of temporary or part time workers (at least most small businesses I work for), if they buy CALs by User, then as long as they have one per employee, they are covered.    You can't "game the system" as the link I posted earlier states and "transfer" the license between employees on a daily basis, but if an employee is fired and a new one hired, MS shouldn't have an issue with the "transfer"

> Their licencing is not communicated by them on an end user level through their software,
> the licencing is very confusing, even for someone who is knowledgeable about computers
> and software, and the very thing that they will investigate/sue you for is allowed in their
> software without any hacks/modifications when it could easily be blocked and include a
> product key/licence number input.....

Have you read the License agreements?  I read them again recently for a licensing project I worked on.  Turns out, they aren't that complicated or difficult to understand in my opinion.  It's just that no one wants to read through 12 pages of licensing before they can use the software they bought.  I used the agreements as posted here: http://www.microsoft.com/About/Legal/EN/US/IntellectualProperty/UseTerms/Default.aspx - note: they don't include Volume Licenses, but Retail and OEM are included.

To address some of your points using the language of the license agreement - (note this is from the Windows 2008 R2 Server Standard Retail License Agreement and I've removed some of the "third level" bullets for brevity (which seems to have failed miserably, but consider how much longer it might be if I left them in:

3. ADDITIONAL LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND/OR USE RIGHTS.
a. Windows Server 2008 Client Access Licenses (CALs).
i. You must acquire and assign the appropriate CAL to each device or user that accesses your instances of the server software directly or indirectly. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device.
ii. Some server software functionality requires additional CALs, as listed below.
iii. Types of CALs. There are two types of CALs: one for devices and one for users. Each device CAL permits one device, used by any user, to access instances of the server software on your licensed servers. Each user CAL permits one user, using any device, to access instances of the server software on your licensed servers. You may use a combination of device and user CALs.
iv. Reassignment of CALs. You may
· permanently reassign your device CAL from one device to another, or your user CAL from one user to another; or
· temporarily reassign your device CAL to a loaner device while the first device is out of service, or your user CAL to a temporary worker while the user is absent.
v. Windows Server 2008 Remote Desktop Services. You must acquire a Windows Server 2008 Remote Desktop Services CAL or Windows Server 2008 Terminal Services CAL for each user or device that directly or indirectly accesses the server software to host a graphical user interface (using the Windows Server 2008 Remote Desktop Services functionality or other technology).
vi. Windows Server 2008 Rights Management Services CALs. In addition to needing a Windows Server 2008 CAL, you need a Windows Server 2008 Rights Management Services CAL for each user or device that directly or indirectly accesses the Windows Server 2008 Rights Management Services functionality.
vii. The server software can be used in either “per device or per user” mode or “per server” mode. In “per device or per user” mode, you need a Windows Server 2008 CAL for each device or user that directly or indirectly accesses instances of the server software on your licensed servers. In “per server” mode, you need and must dedicate exclusively to an instance of the server software as many Windows Server 2008 CALs as the greatest number of devices and users that may directly or indirectly access that instance at the same time. You may change the mode only one time, from “per server” to “per device or per user.” If you do, you will retain the same number Windows Server 2008 CALS.


In my opinion, this is pretty clear... somewhat complicated, but easy enough to read and if you created a diagram of sorts, it would be easy enough to follow.  This true about my company?  No, go here.  This true about my company?  yes, go there... etc.

> Again what if they put in the terms and conditions that you must get a licence for every
> USB device, but let them work without one and made no effort on the end user level to
> communicate the need for a licence through their software. I plug it in, it works, I think
> that everything is fine.

If you read the license agreement at the time of installation, then you understand when and where they can change it.  And again, an extreme example, but I go out and buy a gun, put bullets in it, aim it at a person, and pull the trigger... it just works so why can't I do that?  Especially if I've never actually seen or read a law that says I can't... people just keep telling me I shouldn't but who are these people anyway?  So I pull the trigger and kill someone.  It worked as expected and I think everything is fine.

It's quite possible we're missing each other's point.  I can't argue the law or legalities and there are things MS says you can't do that I DEFINITELY disagree with - but it's their right to say it.  If you disagree, then I suggest the only real way you can effect change is to enter politics and change the law or contact your representatives and communicate your dissatisfaction with the laws that permit things to work this way.
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JTechComputerAuthor Commented:
Thank you everyone for your help and time. I wasn't trying to be controversial, as the title of the question stated and how I currently feel is that the system is above and beyond what I would consider easy licencing. With your help though I have what I need and everyone who responded seemed to genuinely understand the question.
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