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Do gun laws work?

Posted on 2011-10-21
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Do gun laws work?
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Question by:carsRST
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by:leonstryker
ID: 37008745
It depends, define work?
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by:Anthony Russo
Anthony Russo earned 52 total points
ID: 37008899
Stop illegal guns - No
Slow down illegal guns - Somewhat
Keep irresponsible people from having guns - No
Prevent some irresponsible people from having guns - Yes

Possibly some kid somewhere that might have shot himself or a friend playing with a gun left around by an irresponsible owner wont do so because that owner didn't want to jump through all the legal hoops to get a gun. - Well worth it.

Also, I've yet to hear a case where a family was in danger but "Thank God the owner had a gun in the house and was able to protect his family from the intruder."

This is the main argument most gun fans use as to why they need to have a gun in their home.
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by:CCSOFlag
ID: 37009558
AnthonyRusso Wrote:
Stop illegal guns - No
Agree

Slow down illegal guns - Somewhat
Meh borderline agree.  I don't think it slows it much even if it does.

Keep irresponsible people from having guns - No
agree

Prevent some irresponsible people from having guns - Yes
Don't agree.  Any person who really wants a gun can get one irresponsible or not...

Also, I've yet to hear a case where a family was in danger but "Thank God the owner had a gun in the house and was able to protect his family from the intruder."
O.o  Really?  I hear about them all the time.  Not too long ago there was a Marine who was on some morning show talking about how an intruder was put down because he had his gun and nabbed him before he was able to do anything.

Here are some:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LtHMnQ2NPo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5hhYzu0C5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvppBGNZVtg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw


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CCSOFlag earned 52 total points
ID: 37009564
Do gun laws work?

Absolutely not.  In fact they do the opposite imo.  They do not prevent the criminals from getting guns nor following the gun laws, only the law abiding citizens are affected by these laws.

I was quite thrilled when AZ passed it's latest gun law allowing all people to carry concealed weapons without a permit.  Now anyone can carry a gun and criminals will never know.  I guarantee any criminal will think twice about trying to rob someone.  I think once the law catches on and more people start to carry we'll see the effect.  It'll be either less robberies, or more shootings of criminals.  I welcome either of those.

Sure some people will cry foul saying well not everyone is responsible enough to carry a gun.  Well you think the criminals are any more responsible to carry a gun? At least now the tables are turned and the non-criminals are just as armed as the criminals responsible or not.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37010951
If you take a look in areas where guns laws are the most stringent, do we see a decrease in gun activity, crime?


Say you're a criminal - would you rather break in to a house in an area with nonrestrictive gun laws or an area where gun laws are the most restrictive?



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by:leonstryker
ID: 37011775
>would you rather break in to a house in an area with nonrestrictive gun laws or an area where gun laws are the most restrictive?

I would more likely break into a house in an area with restrictive gun laws, but if I was breaking into a house in a nonrestrictive area, then it would be more likely that I would be carrying a gun and God help anyone I find in there.
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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
Mujtaba_Alam_Khan earned 48 total points
ID: 37011926
> Do gun laws work? <

IMO gun laws don't work in the US. In Europe we are pretty much happy without Guns. Even getting a Gun isn't easy. That's not to say criminal won't have them but you will never hear of criminals involved in such low level crime as robbing someones house with a Gun. They are mostly involved in the Drug business.

-Muj ;-|
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37012895
>>I hear about them all the time.  Not too long ago there was a Marine who was on some morning show talking about how an intruder was put down because he had his gun and nabbed him before he was able to do anything.

I stand corrected on this fact I guess. Occasionally a gun in the home protects a family from an intruder. Most of those cases seem to be around a military person. So well trained, I would believe if anyone, they deserve to have a gun.

I think that's a good rule. Want a gun? Join the military!

For the average citizen to have a gun and go to classes a couple of times (I hope at least), I still think it is a bad idea.

>>Say you're a criminal - would you rather break in to a house in an area with nonrestrictive gun laws or an area where gun laws are the most restrictive?

The common criminal barely will have a clue as to what the gun laws are, so I don't think that would make much of a difference.

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by:leonstryker
ID: 37014093
>In Europe we are pretty much happy without Guns. Even getting a Gun isn't easy.

Yeah, especially in Norway.
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by:BigRat
ID: 37014282
>>Yeah, especially in Norway.

That was a disgusting comment.

Recheck your armed crime stattistics and compare then to Europe (including Norway).
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by:carsRST
ID: 37014896
>>That was a disgusting comment.

Leon was making a point.  Had another person owned a firearm that horrible tragedy might have been stopped and the innocent saved.


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by:carsRST
ID: 37014897



>>Recheck your armed crime stattistics and compare then to Europe (including Norway).

I think you need to recheck your stats.



Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.
By Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm (George Mason University)

A hundred years and many gun laws later, the BBC reported that England's firearms restrictions "seem to have had little impact in the criminal underworld.

 In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.

Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England's rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America's, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.
http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome
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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
ID: 37014901
> Had another person owned a firearm that horrible tragedy might have been stopped and the innocent saved. <

Oh wait, it that like the many School shooting that happen in the USA.
We should give kids guns now, is it?

-Muj ;-|
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by:carsRST
ID: 37014907
>>We should give kids guns now, is it?

I would allow teachers.

I would also allow college students to carry a concealed weapon.
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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
ID: 37014914
> I would allow teachers.
I would also allow college students to carry a concealed weapon. <


You are truly a mad man!
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by:carsRST
ID: 37014917
>>You are truly a mad man!

You are using emotion to make decisions.  Use stats and extrapolation.

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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
ID: 37014930
> You are using emotion to make decisions.  Use stats and extrapolation. <

I am using reason to make decisions. Wasn't it a College student who shot dead alot of people. Its good to give them guns, incase someone gets crazy and can easily go on a rampage.

Parents would love to see Teachers with guns.

-Muj ;-|
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by:carsRST
ID: 37014938
>>Wasn't it a College student who shot dead alot of people.

Yep.  He chose an area where he knew no one could shoot back.  He knew the other students were helpless.


53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.

Criminals fear areas where they know someone has a fighting chance.

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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
ID: 37014943
That figure is from 2002 and it isn't even accurate.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

I know for a face that in England you are most likely to get Stabbed than Shot!

-Muj ;-|
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by:carsRST
ID: 37014965
>>I know for a face that in England you are most likely to get Stabbed than Shot!

From your link re: knife crime:
However, it says without better official data it is impossible to know for sure - and that we need that data to improve the public debate.

This topic is on gun laws.  Data shows that stricter laws, in London, have led to increases in armed crimes.



Professor Malcolm:
" As the number of legal firearms have dwindled, the numbers of armed crimes have risen"
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by:Mujtaba_Alam_Khan
ID: 37014983
> This topic is on gun laws.  <

I know and the figure show a much higher knife crime than firearm one.

> Data shows that stricter laws, in London, have led to increases in armed crimes. <

That's not true at all: From the link

"The trend in firearms offences is down in the West Midlands, Greater Manchester and London."

Other link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8153392.stm

Also if you go to google, type in: gun crime in uk and at the right side press 'Timeline" it shows a nice little graph.

--
Also something interesting I found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

-Muj ;-|
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by:leonstryker
leonstryker earned 48 total points
ID: 37018688
>>Yeah, especially in Norway.

That was a disgusting comment


Hmm, disgusting? What was disgusting was the massacre. The comment was accurate.

The reason Gun laws do not work, in the US and pretty much else in the world, is because there is uneven enforcement, and laws to control them. This imbalance sets up situations where individuals, especially those who would use them in criminal activity, can obtain guns in other jurisdictions and bring them across borders (which was exactly what happened in Norway, as the guns were purchased in the Czech Republic).

I am actually for gun control, but not on a state level. To me it’s an all or none deal.
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by:carsRST
ID: 37018997
>>I am actually for gun control, but not on a state level.

In the US, gun ownership is protected by the Constitution.  Neither the federal government nor the states have a right to make laws prohibiting.


>>he reason Gun laws do not work, in the US and pretty much else in the world, is because there is uneven enforcement,

The reason they don't work is b/c criminals don't follow laws.  All gun laws do is keep the hands out of the rest of us trying to protect ourselves.
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by:Anthony Russo
ID: 37019284
If so many more citizens had guns in their homes, don't you think a bunch of them would wind up in criminal hands? Not everyone is as responsible as you are. Some when money is tight will sell a gun or others will have it in the home and when criminals break in while nobody is home, they will find it and have it then.
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by:leonstryker
ID: 37019578
>In the US, gun ownership is protected by the Constitution.  Neither the federal government nor the states have a right to make laws prohibiting.

That is debatable. The Second Amendment protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms for traditionally lawful purposes. It does not define what type of guns are lawful, nor does it define how much, or what type of ammunition is allowed.  Federal government and state government have a right to limit and restrict gun ownership and use...

>The reason they don't work is b/c criminals don't follow laws.

Law uniformity limits criminal activity (criminal arbitrage?) by standardizing access. There would be no such thing as go a by a gun in Virginia, then kill a man in New York, or would make ownership accessible to New York residence on the same basis as those travelling out of state. Either way is fine with me.
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