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BestMethods_for_moviingDBs.

I have a few 9iR2 oracle small databases running on AIX server in Location A.
DB Sizes runs about 5 GB - 15 GB,

We need to take those out of that location A to Location B which will have a virtual machine.
The O/S on the new machine will be either Red Hat Linux or windows server 2008.

We will install oracle 11g on the new machine and then import the 9i databases over.

What is the best thing to do this:

a) exp/imp (logical dump)
b) create a physical backup in 9i (data files ,control files, etc) and restore from it in 11g.
c) other ways?

Can you advise on the best method.
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sam15
Asked:
sam15
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1 Solution
 
slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
9i to 11g:  exp/imp.

Any other method will require you to install 9i on the 'new' servers or 11g on the 'old' servers.

>>which will have a virtual machine

Oracle VM or another product?  If not Oracle's you are aware of Oracle's Support position on VM's?
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sam15Author Commented:
I think oracle changed their support for VM ware.

But why is the exp/imp the best method.

Would restoring from a 9i backup to 11g not work. I mean copying all teh data files, control files, config files ?

also, would you do an export for the whole database or at schema level. Most databases have one schems anyway but some may have 2 or 3 schemas.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>Would restoring from a 9i backup to 11g not work.

You would need to have BOTH versions installed on one the servers to be able to run the Upgrade assistant.  Eother install 11g on the old server, upgrade then backup/restore or install 9i on the new server, backup/restore, startup under 9i then upgrade.

>>But why is the exp/imp the best method.

See above.  It is just cleaner.

>>would you do an export for the whole database or at schema level

I do not trust FULL exports followed by FULL imports.  I know other  Experts here don't have problems with them but over the years I just export/import exactly what I need.

Multiple schema's are find and can all be done at the same time with a single exp/imp command.

The only time I do a FULL import is when I have done a partial export and know what I have.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>I think oracle changed their support for VM ware.

If you can provide an official reference I would love to see it but the only 'official position' I know of was last modified 08-NOV-2010 and it looks like it always has:

Support Position for Oracle Products Running on VMWare Virtualized Environments [ID 249212.1]
 
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sam15Author Commented:
The thing about FULL is i am worried it will take a bunch of other 9i system schemas that I do not need.


can you explain why would you need to install 9i on new server or 11g on old server in order to use the BACKUP/RESTORE method? Would restore only work with same hardware, O/S, oracle server, etc.

I cant install 11g on same server or install 9i on new server. It wont pass by security or management. But i am curious on why it is needed.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>The thing about FULL is i am worried it will take a bunch of other 9i system schemas that I do not need.

This is why I do not do FULL imports on FULL exports.

>>can you explain why would ...

How are you planning on starting up a 9i database with 11g software?

>>Would restore only work with same hardware, O/S, oracle server, etc.

Yes but I believe there are some specific instances with the same Endian where it will work but I would use RMAN CONVERT if changing everything just to be safe.
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sam15Author Commented:
so based on what you say, the only way to do this is via exp/imp? since backup/restore will not work due to different oracle servers. correct


What exactly your position on VMware? I asked some people and they say they do run oracle on VMware in production environments.

http://www.vmware.com/support/policies/oracle-support.html


http://www.vmware.com/solutions/partners/alliances/oracle-vmware-support.html
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>so based on what you say, the only way

Not what I'm saying.  I'm saying this is how I would do it.  Backup/restore will work but requires you to install BOTH versions of Oracle on 'one' of the servers.

>>What exactly your position on VMware?

If you want to go to VMware support for Oracle issues then by all means go ahead.  Personally I will stick to Oracle Support in a non-VMware environment for production.

Look at the second link you posted.  It also provide the same Oracle Support note I did.
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sam15Author Commented:
I read somewhere that going from AIX to x86 will not work due to different byte order.
only way is like you said is exp/imp. do you know what is this byte order.

also, what parameters do you normally use with the exp and imp?
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>do you know what is this byte order.

Back in http:#a37057137 I mentioned Endian.  That is what I was referring to:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness

>>what parameters do you normally use with the exp and imp?

The parameters change based on what I'm doing at the time.  There is no 'set' parameters.
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sam15Author Commented:
<The parameters change based on what I'm doing at the time>

I mean if you were taking a 9i schema from  AIX machine A to x86 (windows or linuux) machine b with 11g.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
Nothing special.  I would provide a list of the schemas I wanted to move with the OWNER parameter.

If you run the export as a DBA level account I believe it is a comma separated list but my 9i memory is old and cannot find an example i nthe 9i docs:

... OWNER=(schema1, schema2, schema3) ...

The other choice is one schema per export file.  This can make rerunning the import easier if one of the schemas has issues.

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sam15Author Commented:
ok thanks.

i do not have access to metalink. I appreciate it if can you attach the oracle support policy file.

Are you talking about RAC support. We are not running RAc (only single instance) and based on what i read so far they say they do support any issue.

http://blogs.gartner.com/chris-wolf/2010/11/10/oracle-broadens-x86-virtualization-support-but-work-remains/
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>I appreciate it if can you attach the oracle support policy file

I cannot.  It is a violation of Oracle support contact and this sites rules to post copyrighted information.

>>they do support any issue

Read it again.  You are missing the 'fine print'.

The link you posted sums it up nicely:
It should also be noted that Oracle’s support is limited to “issues that either are known to occur on the native OS, or can be demonstrated not to be as a result of running on VMware.”

In a nutshell, to demonstrate it isn't due to VMWare, means YOU need to be able to reproduce the exact issue on a physical machine.

So at 3AM when the server dies and you open an SR with Support, unless you are hitting a known bug, you MUST be able to PROVE it isn't VMWare causing the issue.

Can you see the potential problem with this?
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sam15Author Commented:
so you would strongly recommend running oracle on non-VM machine because of the support issue?

We have to prove to them that VM is not causing the issue? Ho wcan i do that unless i have another machine with oracle and without VM running.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>so you would strongly recommend running oracle on non-VM machine because of the support issue?

I've been trying to strongly recommend this to you in ALL of your recent questions.  I would only ever run production Oracle on a physical server because of this.

>>We have to prove to them that VM is not causing the issue?

Yes.  They will not do it for you.

>>Ho wcan i do that unless i have another machine with oracle and without VM running.

EXACTLY!!!

Now before you say:  I can create a database on a small workstation for 'support isuses', what if the database crash was data related and you cannot reproduce it on the stand-alone macihne?
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sam15Author Commented:
How do all those shops running oracle on VMware handle this issue? from what you are saying the support is same whether it is single instance or RAC and regadless whehter the VM machine is Redhat linux or windows

How often do you call oracle support? from what i heard their support is not that good too. I have not dealt with them before.
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>How do all those shops running oracle on VMware handle this issue?

You will have to ask them.  Maybe they just don't tell Oracle they are running VMWare but I know from personal experience:  If you provide them a dump file and it has an obscure drive volume reference, the SR will no longer be worked on until you can prove the issue exists on a non-VM.

I had it happen.  Luckely it was on my test system (I run VMs for all test and development), and I could afford for the database to be down until I could build a physical machine and reproduce the problem.

>>How often do you call oracle support?

As infrequently as possible but when you need them, you sort of REALLY need them.

>>from what i heard their support is not that good too. I have not dealt with them before.

Define 'good'?  They can be slow for some issues and sites like this are much quicker BUT, and this is a BIG BUT:

Nowhere else can you have a stack dump/trace generated, fully analyzed, and a fix/patch written for you.

You may get lucky and your production system never crashes at 3AM and you can easily reproduce ALL issues on a small workstation BUT are you willing to gamble on it?

Personally, I like my job so I'm not.
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sam15Author Commented:
Good points.

I do not udnerstand how you are running DEV/TEST on a VM box while production on non-VM.
I would think you want to test in a similar environment.
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sam15Author Commented:
Also ,did you meant these statements about the plicy?

Besides technical assistance, VMware Support will advocate on the customer’s behalf to:

Provide any relevant evidence that virtualization does not play a part in the Oracle product technical problem
Engage Oracle Support in resolving the customer’s technical issue, escalating management attention as appropriate
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slightwv (䄆 Netminder) Commented:
>>I would think you want to test in a similar environment.

Depends on what you are testing.  I don't really do full blown performance testing.  I mainly test functionality.  What performance testing that I do perform can be scaled up.  I have a good idea about how my test setup will scale into production.

>> VMware Support will advocate on the customer’s behalf to:

That is all great until it is 3 am and Oracle requests a memory dump when a reproducible test case cannot be created.  What good do you think VMware support will be?

It appears that you are trying to rationalize that it is ok to run Oracle in VMware.  Your mind is made up and I will not convince you that you should not.

I can only tell you my personal experience.  I have had a support issue stopped until I could reproduce on physical hardware.

Can you explain to management why their database is down because you cannot reproduce the problem on your workstation?

I just hope it works for you.  I would not bet my job on it.  Get management to sign off on the decision!
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