SAN - recommendation and is it worth it?
Hello,
I would like to use a SAN for two purposes:
Virtualization store for ESXi server of production / Admin servers consisting of:
1 Back end Exchange server (2003), 285 Gig
1 Front End Exchange server 150 Gig
1 File server, 650 Gig
1 Application server, 350 Gig
2nd file server 2TB (has .iso image store)
2 x domain controllers, 200 Gig total
I would like a SAN to be able to do the following:
snapshots (with possibility of granular restore)
NFS (to replace file server so users can map directly to shares)
I would also use it with ESXi server to host virtualized environment
Would work with ISCSI for connections and not fibre channel
I am expecting a quote for an entry level NetApps SAN from one of my vendors. The vendor is presenting a quote for 12 x 600 Gig 15K drive system which he says will be sufficient if I don't use it for my .ISO store.
Use 20 % for snap shot processing and so forth, along with deduplication technology, I am told that I will have net space available of 2TB.
Off the top the vendor says that this will cost approximately 32 K.
It sounds quite expensive for 2TB of storage space. I could opt for 12 x 2TB SAS drives (2TB each) 7.2K drives instead of 12 , bur my vendor said access will be slow for an exchange environment and so forth.
To me, 32 K for 2 TB of net storage space sounds quite expensive.
We are a medium sized company with 100 employees. Majority of data (outside of Exchange) are flat files.
does the NetApps solution make sense or are there other alternatives worth considering that will meet our company's needs that are more cost effective?
Thanks in advance.
Mark
I would like to use a SAN for two purposes:
Virtualization store for ESXi server of production / Admin servers consisting of:
1 Back end Exchange server (2003), 285 Gig
1 Front End Exchange server 150 Gig
1 File server, 650 Gig
1 Application server, 350 Gig
2nd file server 2TB (has .iso image store)
2 x domain controllers, 200 Gig total
I would like a SAN to be able to do the following:
snapshots (with possibility of granular restore)
NFS (to replace file server so users can map directly to shares)
I would also use it with ESXi server to host virtualized environment
Would work with ISCSI for connections and not fibre channel
I am expecting a quote for an entry level NetApps SAN from one of my vendors. The vendor is presenting a quote for 12 x 600 Gig 15K drive system which he says will be sufficient if I don't use it for my .ISO store.
Use 20 % for snap shot processing and so forth, along with deduplication technology, I am told that I will have net space available of 2TB.
Off the top the vendor says that this will cost approximately 32 K.
It sounds quite expensive for 2TB of storage space. I could opt for 12 x 2TB SAS drives (2TB each) 7.2K drives instead of 12 , bur my vendor said access will be slow for an exchange environment and so forth.
To me, 32 K for 2 TB of net storage space sounds quite expensive.
We are a medium sized company with 100 employees. Majority of data (outside of Exchange) are flat files.
does the NetApps solution make sense or are there other alternatives worth considering that will meet our company's needs that are more cost effective?
Thanks in advance.
Mark
I don't ye have experience with the promise vessraid but I will soon. I've decided to go with it for my iscsi solution. It's had great reviews from personal friends and is not too expensive. Pick your own drives.
I supported more than that using a now 4 year old Dell Equallogic system with 14 x 750 GB SATA drives. I just bought a PS4100X with 24 x 900 GB 10K SAS drives for a little more than your quote. I bet that a PS4100X system with 24 x 600 GB drives would come in a bit less than your quote.
Dell EqualLogic has snapshots with granular restore included, as well as thin provisioning, replication, thin clones, system monitoring, MPIO, etc. It doesn't have dedupe (yet); CIFS/NFS access can be added with another box, but I have a much larger environment and I just present iSCSI storage to my Windows VM for filer access. Performance is really good, and you can afford maintenance in year 4, 5, 6 and beyond. NetApp has a reputation for jacking up maintenance so high that it becomes cheaper to just replace your storage.
Dell EqualLogic has snapshots with granular restore included, as well as thin provisioning, replication, thin clones, system monitoring, MPIO, etc. It doesn't have dedupe (yet); CIFS/NFS access can be added with another box, but I have a much larger environment and I just present iSCSI storage to my Windows VM for filer access. Performance is really good, and you can afford maintenance in year 4, 5, 6 and beyond. NetApp has a reputation for jacking up maintenance so high that it becomes cheaper to just replace your storage.
Keep in mind with the Netapp deduplication you should get about 50% deduplication and single instance depending on what you store.
I do mostly Netapp but the EMC VNXe may be worth looking at, the snapshot will take more space but it does offer NFS, CIFS, and iSCSI.
If you're looking at the Netapp you should wait a little bit, the new models are going to be released shortly so the price should drop on older models and shelves if you're looking for a good deal.
Your file server could be migrated to the Netapp so you can recover a windows license. The nice thing about the Netapp you can mount a volume with both NFS and CIFS and let the Netapp translate the user account for you..nice thing to have in a mixed environment as well as having capability to store VMs on NFS as well instead of iSCSI for easier maintenance (as you can shrink and grow your volume vs creating a LUN which you can expand but not shrink)
I do mostly Netapp but the EMC VNXe may be worth looking at, the snapshot will take more space but it does offer NFS, CIFS, and iSCSI.
If you're looking at the Netapp you should wait a little bit, the new models are going to be released shortly so the price should drop on older models and shelves if you're looking for a good deal.
Your file server could be migrated to the Netapp so you can recover a windows license. The nice thing about the Netapp you can mount a volume with both NFS and CIFS and let the Netapp translate the user account for you..nice thing to have in a mixed environment as well as having capability to store VMs on NFS as well instead of iSCSI for easier maintenance (as you can shrink and grow your volume vs creating a LUN which you can expand but not shrink)
From my point of view, the main difference is not related to the brand. EMC and NetApp will give you everything you need, but the proposals will be expensive, for sure. Equallogic is simpler and cheaper; it doesn't implement dedupe, but it is not in your whish list, so I would recommend Equallogic over NetApp in your case.
First, seriously consider if you really need 15Krpm disks in your environment. This is the main difference in price: you can buy an Equallogic with SATA 7200 rpm disks for less than a half of your quote. The 4100E must be more than enough in your case:
http://www.equallogic.com/products/default.aspx?id=10597
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/equallogic-ps4100e/pd
12 drives -> for your storage needs, you can find it for less than 10K
The main problem with SATA disks comes from the Exchange mailbox server... but you are just 100 users...
In your case my recommendation is not going with NetApp.
First, seriously consider if you really need 15Krpm disks in your environment. This is the main difference in price: you can buy an Equallogic with SATA 7200 rpm disks for less than a half of your quote. The 4100E must be more than enough in your case:
http://www.equallogic.com/products/default.aspx?id=10597
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/equallogic-ps4100e/pd
12 drives -> for your storage needs, you can find it for less than 10K
The main problem with SATA disks comes from the Exchange mailbox server... but you are just 100 users...
In your case my recommendation is not going with NetApp.
An EqualLogic can handle 100 users easily with SATA drives. I had over 500 Exchange 2003 users, and 150+ BES users on a PS400E with 14 SATA drives. All of my other VMs were on that as well. I don't think that you can get a new one for 10K, at least not one with at least 12 populated drives.
ASKER
Hi,
Deduplication is not an important feature or might not be necessary. Our overall data measures less than 5 TB (probably under 4). I only mentioned it because it was a feature of the NETAPPS SAN.
My skill level is also low when it comes to SAN - so we might actually want to use CIFS over NFS (still to be determined).
The problem I face is the pricetag - 32 K for 2 TB of usable storage which is a difficult sell to management.
One vendor recommended the 15K drives for use on the SAN when connecting to the VMWare ESXi servers. 15K drive speed might not be necessary in our environment; it is possible that 7.2K drive speeds would be sufficient.
At the start of this project (searching for a SAN for our company) Dell did some benchmark testing and it looked like the faster drive speeds (from the results) were not necessary.
Not having enough experience, I am not certain which way is the best to go except that management would more than likely refuse 32 K for 2 TB of storage.
In additon, snapshot feature looks impressive as I would no longer have to backup data to disk and restore in the event of a disaster would be quite fast. I would want one snapshot per day over a two week period (14 in total) with the ability to backup data to tape and send off-site. In addition, granular restore (Exchange, specific file) would be one of the requirements. Having Deduplication technology would be a bonus, but if it means saving say 10K 9or a significant amount) then I could do without.
Thanks,
Mark
Deduplication is not an important feature or might not be necessary. Our overall data measures less than 5 TB (probably under 4). I only mentioned it because it was a feature of the NETAPPS SAN.
My skill level is also low when it comes to SAN - so we might actually want to use CIFS over NFS (still to be determined).
The problem I face is the pricetag - 32 K for 2 TB of usable storage which is a difficult sell to management.
One vendor recommended the 15K drives for use on the SAN when connecting to the VMWare ESXi servers. 15K drive speed might not be necessary in our environment; it is possible that 7.2K drive speeds would be sufficient.
At the start of this project (searching for a SAN for our company) Dell did some benchmark testing and it looked like the faster drive speeds (from the results) were not necessary.
Not having enough experience, I am not certain which way is the best to go except that management would more than likely refuse 32 K for 2 TB of storage.
In additon, snapshot feature looks impressive as I would no longer have to backup data to disk and restore in the event of a disaster would be quite fast. I would want one snapshot per day over a two week period (14 in total) with the ability to backup data to tape and send off-site. In addition, granular restore (Exchange, specific file) would be one of the requirements. Having Deduplication technology would be a bonus, but if it means saving say 10K 9or a significant amount) then I could do without.
Thanks,
Mark
I would suggest you look at the HP line - MSA and left hand.
We put various MSA 2324i at client sites of yoru size (upto 500 user accounts)
That together with Veeam is ideal as Veeam handles the snapshot and backups to disk making restore easier. If cost is a factor, you may want to consider a different approach!
The P2000 does come with snapshot ability, but I have no idea on the pricing for those.
We put various MSA 2324i at client sites of yoru size (upto 500 user accounts)
That together with Veeam is ideal as Veeam handles the snapshot and backups to disk making restore easier. If cost is a factor, you may want to consider a different approach!
The P2000 does come with snapshot ability, but I have no idea on the pricing for those.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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>The problem I face is the pricetag - 32 K for 2 TB of usable storage which is a difficult sell to management.
You have to spec in IOPS and sell that to management, not capacity. Take a tape cartridge into the meeting with you and slap it on the desk and say you can provide 2TB for $60.
If Dell did some performance monitoring of the current environment how many IOPS did they say it needs?
You have to spec in IOPS and sell that to management, not capacity. Take a tape cartridge into the meeting with you and slap it on the desk and say you can provide 2TB for $60.
If Dell did some performance monitoring of the current environment how many IOPS did they say it needs?
Netapp just announced the new 2000 series model (I assume that it what was quoted). The base price has just dropped under $7500 so you should be able to requote for a much better deal.
http://www.netapp.com/us/solutions/midsize/midsize-products.html
http://www.netapp.com/us/solutions/midsize/midsize-products.html
ASKER
Thank you for your suggestion.
Cheers,
Mark
Cheers,
Mark
In fact I think you would use CIFs rather than NFS, to map shares, unless you are using NFS clients, which would be unusual in a Windows environment.
7.2k drives would be slow for ESXi and File Serving.